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The Son Is God, Not Merely a Role

From: Jason
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 2:30 PM
Subject: Trinity

RE:  You article on the Trinity:  https://www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehood-exposed/trinity/asininity-of-the-trinity.htm

I enjoyed reading your article, and have long had issues reconciling the “trinity” myself.  Thus, this is why I find your perspective very interesting.  The one verse that I was hoping to see an explanation for was John 3:16 which is obviously one of the most quoted verses in the Bible. “16 “For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”  I read this as a gift (“gave”) of something that God possessed (“his”) [other than himself].

I’m curious as to how you reconcile this into your example that the “Son” is just a role and not another persona or manifestation of the one true God.  This could have easily been written by the sovereign God to say, “For God so loved the world, that he gave himself as a Son…”  But, it does not, it says that “he” (God) gave his only Son (a “person” or “persona” that was not himself)…

Can you share your thoughts on this verse?

Thanks in advance!!!

Jason

From: Paul Cohen
To: Jason
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Trinity

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory” (1 Timothy 3:16 MKJV).

The “Son” isn’t just a “role,” Jason. The Son IS God, manifesting Himself to mankind. 

John 1:1-5 Webster
(1)  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(2)  The same was in the beginning with God.
(3)  All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
(4)  In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
(5)  And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Why is there a problem with God in the flesh, Jesus Christ, praying to His Father in Heaven, just as any man in the flesh, made in God’s image, is called to do in faith? How could God become our Mediator and make the way for us except He took on human form? If you can’t receive these things, you also can’t receive your salvation. And if darkness rules you, how will you comprehend? 

Paul

From: Jason
To: Paul and Victor
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: Trinity

Darkness doesn’t rule me.  I actively wage war against sin.  If you looked at my life a few years ago and looked at my life now, you would see that the fruits of the spirit show evidence of salvation.  Please understand that my question is not an “attack” on you.  I’m not asking for a defense.  Again, I found your article interesting, and I am trying to get your *opinion* on a particular verse.

I used the word “role” to reflect your writings.  You said this:  “I am one person. I am a father, a son, and a husband. That may make three positions or roles, but it doesn’t make me three people. So it is with God

Again, I’m not sure why you are judging me.  I don’t have a “problem with God in the flesh”.  I believe that Jesus was\is God in the flesh.  This simply comes down to trying to understand the case that you are presented.  In your rebuttal to the trinity, you took several verses from the Bible and you deconstructed them to show how they supported your thesis.  I’m just asking for you to do the same for this verse.

For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Thanks,

Jason

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Jason and Paul Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Trinity

This is a matter of revelation, Jason, even as had to be revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Without revelation (not talking about Gnosticism now), we really have nothing though we have all true doctrine perfect in the letter.

To try to give you something on John 3:16, the Father gave Himself a body and introduced and subjected Himself to this earthly realm of mankind. “See, this is My will for you, that you be like Me. Here I am, called ‘The Son.’ I will demonstrate to you the Express Image of Myself.”

So He gave Himself, and being God, He did it as He did while ruling and sustaining all things that consist by Him.

Without revelation of this great and wonderful truth, no man will understand; you will think otherwise, believing we’re “stretching things” without justification. Not that we seek intellectual agreement, as sincere as it may be, of our doctrines. That will never do either, not for us or for you. 

\/ 

From: Jason
To: Victor and Paul
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 12:18 PM
Subject: RE: Trinity

Thanks for such a quick response.  I truly appreciate your time.  This is what I was looking for.  I do agree that knowledge of God comes from revelation!  Praise God for anything and everything that he reveals to us!  This is why I constantly SEEK truth (I found your site from a Google search while SEEKing).  For God promised to those who seek with their whole heart, they will find Him!!!

I believe in prophecy and revelation.  But as you know followers of Jesus are commanded to “not despise prophecies, but test everything; hold fast to what is good” (1 Thes 5:20).  So, please do not fault me for asking for more support of your revelation.  I must “test everything” as commanded.

The other verse that comes to mind is Luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me.  Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done”.

I would also like to see your insight on this verse.  On the surface, a “trinitarian” would argue that Jesus is praying to the Father (another party\entity\person).  In addition the “not MY will, but YOURS” indicates some sort of mutual exclusivity (i.e, “do not do MY will, but do YOUR will instead” = 2 wills that are not the same).  In addition there are many places where Jesus prays (understood to be praying to the Father) (John 11:41-42).  How do you normally teach\dissect these scriptures in your church?

Thanks in advance!

Jason

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Jason and Paul Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2016 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: Trinity

Jason, do read our section and all articles addressing the trinity heresy. Read them carefully and repeatedly. I’m sure your questions are being answered in our writings, if not directly, then indirectly. Having thoroughly studied them, if you still have questions, feel free to write and we’ll get back to you. It won’t nearly be so swiftly as here – I just happened to grab your letters and deal with them. Normally, you might have to wait several days, sometimes a week or two. 

Jesus Christ Is God
The Asininity of the Trinity 
Could Jesus Christ Have Sinned?
Jesus Christ: A Great Man or Jehovah God? 
Jesus Christ, Almighty God
The Most Glorious of Truths
The Son of Man and His Mission in the Israel of God
“Who Do Men Say that I Am?”
Worshipping Christ as God 
“You Worship You Know Not What…”
Diabolical Doctrine: The Trinity (God Is Three Persons)

\/ 

From: Jason
To: Victor and Paul
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 8:05 AM
Subject: RE: Trinity

I’ve read a couple, but I have not read them all.  I will let you know if I have any questions.  Once again, thanks for your response!

Jason

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