From: Sonia
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 1:20 PM
Subject: using different translations
Hello: First of all, I appreciate very much the work you have done on your site. The Lord is revealing much of the false gospel I have received and your work, along with L. Ray Smith’s site, has helped me greatly. I found your site in searching out more about L. Ray Smith’s testimony. I do agree with your assessment of Smith which is what led me to search out “who he really was?”
I have a quick question about why you use different translations of the Scriptures in responding to your letters? In particular, I was reading your response regarding Martin Luther King, Jr. and was surprised to see you quote the Message.
I remember when my husband and I attended a study where a group of us watched a Rick Warren study, the Purpose Driven Life. We questioned his authenticity as he quoted from so many different versions of the Bible, appearing to “twist” the Word to say what he wanted it to.
Now, because of the validity of what I have read of your testimonies, I’m certain that I stand to be corrected by my concern. I am anxious to hear the reasoning behind this.
Sonia
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Sonia
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: using different translations
Hi Sonia,
Thank you for writing and letting us know about how you’re being helped by what the Lord has given us. You ask specifically about using different Bible versions, saying of Rick Warren:
“We questioned his authenticity as he quoted from so many different versions of the Bible, appearing to ‘twist’ the Word to say what he wanted it to.”
“Appearing” to twist the Word isn’t certain enough to indict someone as a false teacher. You need to know for sure whether or not they’re perverting the Scriptures. Peter wrote of how some were doing this with Paul’s words:
“And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation (as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction)” (2 Peter 3:15-16 MKJV).
We know that Rick Warren does indeed twist the Scriptures, not so much intentionally but as by nature, because he knows the Lord after the flesh and not by His Spirit (The Purpose Driven Life: Promoting Christianity Without Christ).
The issue isn’t how many translations Rick uses, but his lack of spiritual revelation and understanding from God, which He gives to all His servants He raises in Christ up to represent Him.
As those so chosen of God and honored by His grace, we use different translations/interpretations to help us best illuminate the meaning of the Scriptures and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ in any given situation. The Message has some fresh and effective renditions of certain verses, while other portions are way off base and unusable. By quoting from The Message we are in no way endorsing it for everyone to use as their everyday Bible. No Bible is problem-free, but some are more consistent and accurate than others.
The only way we can know these things is by knowing the Author, Who inspired the writers to speak of Him and His ways.
You might find the following writings from our section on How We View and Use the Scriptures helpful:
Is Peterson’s The Message Evil?
Debra Lynn
Berit Kjos – Moralizing Minister of Death
Despatch Magazine (EndTime Ministries)
Let us know if we’ve answered your question, Sonia. And what did you see in our testimonies that made you think we would correct you?
Paul and Victor
From: Sonia
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: using different translations
Hi Paul. Thank you for your reply.
“Anything physical, or handled by man, is subject to automatic corruption and is therefore corrupt. The only “thing” incorrupt is God Himself. Therefore, our trust must be squarely on Him.”(from your site).
I read your paper on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Although I understand the use of various versions of Scripture on your site more after reading the posts you suggested, I think the use of Mt. 23:7 MSG stood out because it was the only translation I found that used the word ‘Doctor’.
” What we actually see is quite the opposite: We don’t see anything about Dr. King that resembles Jesus or His disciples. Even the title of “Dr.” is a giveaway of what side King was on. Those who called themselves “Doctor” were the ones who persecuted the Lord and His disciples. Here is what Jesus said about them:
“Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called ‘Doctor’ and ‘Reverend’” (Matthew 23:5-7 MSG).
In regards to your question:
“And what did you see in our testimonies that made you think we would correct you?”
I will tell you that I found your site in searching out who L. Ray Smith was. You write of Smith:
“It was because we appreciated Ray’s stand in this matter that we initially contacted him in 2004, letting him know that though he had right doctrine, he erred in spirit, reflected by some of the things he was saying and teaching. We showed him this from his writings. Ray reacted in a combative and irrational manner to our presentation, confirming what we told him – that he wasn’t right with God (our correspondences with Ray included in materials to follow)”
I was not referring to your formal “testimonies”. I was simply referring to what you represent on your site when I used that term, my apologies for not being clear on that. You do much “correcting” of people and false religions on your site, rightly so- the entire purpose of your site indeed is to set people free from those false religions and to reveal the Truth.
My concern lies in the tone or lack of gentleness which is what I struggled with
in reading L. Ray Smith. You say to Debra Lynn, for example:
“If you were not so stubborn and bull-headed, which are telltale marks of an idolater (the Bible being one of your idols), you would read the writings we sent you on the King James Bible that highlight some of the deadly errors contained therein, making the point that we do not put our trust in any Bible version, nor can anyone else except a Bibliolater such as yourself.”
Paul, you wrote
to Debra Lynn:
“Instead of pleasing God, your self-righteousness makes Him want to vomit. It is no wonder your husband is no longer around. Who can tolerate you, and who can you tolerate, in your wretched religiosity? “
I know it is necessary to be firm sometimes or “call out” but the name calling is not consistent with how we are told to conduct ourselves.
2 Timothy 2:24-26 ESV
And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
Colossians 3:12 ESV
Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience.
1 Peter 2:23 ESV
When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.
In another post:
“After judging the tone of my words to Philip, you ask, “Do you think this tone is one of love and caring and for the edification and building of Philip?” To that question, I answer, “Yes,” knowing full well that you do not understand the love of God that way. To another, just today, I wrote (in part):”
“In fact, the act of men drawing others to God happens to be a significant characteristic of the antiChrist spirit. Men presuming to be in Christ think they can “love” people to God by the “light that is in them,” and so “witness” with “power.” The truth is that they are witnesses unto themselves of their own love while declaring His Name. Nowhere in Old or New Testaments is it recorded that the saints won anyone to God by loving them…nowhere, not even with Jesus. This is the antiChrist spirit.”
I read the above post after having just read Mark 10 the day before and was struck by Jesus loving this rich young prince, never having seen that before.
Mark 10:21
21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
As men filled with the Spirit, have you ever received correspondence pointing out something you might be in error on and acknowledged this?
Also, are there teachers that you would have on a list titled “Teachers of Truth” who are filled with the Spirit and teach Truth? If so, who would those be?
Paul and Victor, I am grateful for the Truth that you share on your site.
I am being set free from the false doctrines that were so perplexing to me most of my life. I want to know Christ and your teachings have certainly been revealing Him to me.
I am now at the place where I am asking my pastors and husband to search the incorrect translations of “hell” and “eternal” and am being met with adversity, like I am the one that is crazy to believe that God would send those He created to an everlasting torment for no purpose. Is it wrong for me to be speaking on such matters or raising questions for others to ponder when I myself have not yet received the Spirit to show me?
Thank you for taking the time to address my questions.
Sonia
From: Paul Cohen
To: Sonia
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 8:38 PM
Subject: Re[3]: using different translations
Hi Sonia,
I’ll comment on your letter in the order of subjects you raised:
Concerning Martin Luther King, not sure what your point is. Clearly King used his worldly doctorate to boost his alleged spiritual authority. Religious men only use the “Dr.” title to inspire confidence in them. It is a subversion of faith in God. But what does the Lord say?
“It is better to trust in the LORD than to trust in man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to trust in princes” (Psalms 118:8-9 MKJV).
Are you suggesting that King wasn’t “preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called ‘Doctor’ and ‘Reverend’” (Matthew 23:5-7 MSG)”? No man of God would think to be called such things – not for a second. What’s the difference?
“How can you believe, you who receive honor from one another and do not seek the honor that comes from God only?” (John 5:44 MKJV)
You write: “You do much ‘correcting’ of people and false religions on your site, rightly so- the entire purpose of your site indeed is to set people free from those false religions and to reveal the Truth.”
Amen; you’re so right, and most importantly about the reason God has sent us to speak the Truth: He wishes to manifest Himself, the Truth Who sets people free. Therefore, how can we be wrong in what we say when we’re manifesting the Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ?
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth the good. And an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth the evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks” (Luke 6:45 MKJV).
Think about it.
You say: “My concern lies in the tone or lack of gentleness which is what I struggled with in reading L. Ray Smith.”
- Ray Smith wasn’t speaking from the Lord, though Ray taught many true things. He spoke from his own spirit. We speak the Truth from the Lord:
“Jesus answered them and said, My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If anyone desires to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it is of God, or I speak from Myself. He who speaks of himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of Him Who sent him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him” (John 7:16-18 MKJV).
You continue:
“You say to Debra Lynn, for example:
‘If you were not so stubborn and bull-headed, which are telltale marks of an idolater (the Bible being one of your idols), you would read the writings we sent you on the King James Bible that highlight some of the deadly errors contained therein, making the point that we do not put our trust in any Bible version, nor can anyone else except a Bibliolater such as yourself.’
Paul, you wrote to Debra Lynn:
‘Instead of pleasing God, your self-righteousness makes Him want to vomit. It is no wonder your husband is no longer around. Who can tolerate you, and who can you tolerate, in your wretched religiosity?’
You say this “name calling is not consistent with how we are told to conduct ourselves” – quoting 2 Timothy 2:24-26 (ESV):
“And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”
Have you red the entire sequence of our correspondence with Debra Lynn? Are you saying we weren’t patient and didn’t endure evil coming from her? Did we not correct her with gentleness, after which she condemned us and the Truth, even dredging up lies to do so? Did we not describe her and the position she’s taken as the Lord would, or John the Immerser did?
There’s no record of any discourse between John and the religious who came to the Jordan where he baptized, yet he said to them:
“But seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said to them, O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?” (Matthew 3:7 MKJV)
Are you attributing unrighteousness to John, which the Lord never said of him, or did John address their spirits as properly discerned and pleasing to God?
And what of how Jesus spoke in Matthew 23? Don’t you condemn Him by the way you’ve applied the Scriptures you’ve quoted to us about not “name calling”? Remember, the Lord is Love Incarnate. Will you consider that you’re judging Him and us by the appearance instead of according to the essential spiritual reality?
Continuing with another example you present from our site (your comment following in green):
After judging the tone of my words to Philip, you ask, “Do you think this tone is one of love and caring and for the edification and building of Philip?” To that question, I answer, “Yes,” knowing full well that you do not understand the love of God that way. To another, just today, I wrote (in part):
“In fact, the act of men drawing others to God happens to be a significant characteristic of the antiChrist spirit. Men presuming to be in Christ think they can ‘love’ people to God by the ‘light that is in them,’ and so ‘witness’ with ‘power.’ The truth is that they are witnesses unto themselves of their own love while declaring His Name. Nowhere in Old or New Testaments is it recorded that the saints won anyone to God by loving them…nowhere, not even with Jesus. This is the antiChrist spirit.”
I read the above post after having just read Mark 10 the day before and was struck by Jesus loving this rich young prince, never having seen that before.
Mark 10:21
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
[END]
The Lord didn’t love that man to win him. He loved that man by speaking the truth to him. Had the Lord loved that man as the corrupt religious do, He wouldn’t have spoken the truth, but would have spoken words by which the man, who was already drawn and coming to Him, would have continued with the Lord. That’s how man does it, gathering numbers to himself, while the Lord sends them away, if they choose to serve other gods.
You ask: “As men filled with the Spirit, have you ever received correspondence pointing out something you might be in error on and acknowledged this?”
Yes, although not on exposing the false or rebuking the wicked.
And: “Also, are there teachers that you would have on a list titled ‘Teachers of Truth’ who are filled with the Spirit and teach Truth? If so, who would those be?”
No. We know of none, and it’s the false teachers that are lauded by the false church, which represents all of nominal Christendom today.
You conclude:
“Paul and Victor, I am grateful for the Truth that you share on your site. I am being set free from the false doctrines that were so perplexing to me most of my life. I want to know Christ and your teachings have certainly been revealing Him to me.
That’s good to hear, because we know the Truth will set you free if you believe and obey.
I am now at the place where I am asking my pastors and husband to search the incorrect translations of ‘hell’ and ‘eternal’ and am being met with adversity, like I am the one that is crazy to believe that God would send those He created to an everlasting torment for no purpose. Is it wrong for me to be speaking on such matters or raising questions for others to ponder when I myself have not yet received the Spirit to show me?
Not wrong at all, any more than asking us questions is wrong. You’ve been respectful and have legitimate questions that deserve decent answers. However, what are you going to do when you finally realize your pastors don’t know God, and are in fact opposed to Jesus Christ?
As for your husband, the Lord warned those of your household will be your foes (Matthew 10). If that turns out to be case, as with your pastors, then we’ll see if your belief is about doctrine or faith. Only faith in Christ will save you.
Paul