From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Brad
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:42 PM
Subject: Reply from Victor
Greetings in Christ Jesus, Brad, Victor here.
I would like to respond to your letter and will do so within it:
From: Brad
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: RE: The Deadly Error of the Universalists
Hello Paul,
My name is brad….and I just received this email from you.
I hear what you are saying and in many ways we agree. Yet, I wonder what you believe the truth that Christ is all in all actually means.
I think that you may refer to the verse in Corinthians wherein it says:
But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all things in all. (1 Corinthians 15:28 MKJV)
Here it does not say that Christ IS all in all but that the Son WILL be subject to God, so that God may be all things in all. This tells us that there is a process and within that process, of course, there are details. Many “Universalists” have dispensed with the details and process, thinking to take shortcuts by mentally assenting that the job is as good as done. It does not and will not work. You are in that error from all I can tell, Brad, and it will not work for YOU. Salvation does not come by doctrine, it does not come by mental conception, and it does not come by human belief. Yes, you say you know that, but I am saying to you that the path to the fulfilment of the work Jesus Christ has performed is one He has ordained, that being repentance from sin, exercise of faith in Him (which, as you say, comes as a gift from Him, as does repentance) and taking up the cross, so that one is crucified to the world and the world unto him (or her).
What do you think Jesus meant when he said what we do the to least we do to him?
I think you refer to His words recorded in this verse:
“And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.” (Matthew 25:40 MKJV)
Brad, He was speaking not of the general populace, but of those born of His Spirit. He said this:
“For whoever does the will of God, the same is My brother and My sister and My mother.” (Mark 3:35 MKJV)
His servant, disciple, friend, son, and brother John said this:
“But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.” (John 1:12-13 MKJV)
What you are doing is taking verses and generally, loosely interpreting them according to false notions and doctrines you have been taught by false teachers. That is what it means to “not rightly divide the Word of Truth” (2 Timothy 2:15 MKJV). Peter also spoke of those who were destroying themselves thus:
“As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).” (2 Peter 3:16 MKJV)
Christ is universal, therefore so is His salvation.
You see what I mean? Behold both the goodness and severity of God. His severity is also “universal,” using your logic, which it is. You are not saying anything useful here.
It is the work of Christ that saves us.
Of course it is. Do you find us speaking otherwise? Again, your generalities serve no purpose. There is no revelation or understanding to your words.
In fact, we cannot even come to God without Christ first drawing us.
Your generalities serve no purpose, and your use of Scripture is abusive. I have quoted Scripture that you have referred to inaccurately. Here you do so again. It is the Father Who draws us to the Son, and not the Son that draws us to the Father. What is the difference? Plenty. God has revealed Himself in and by His Son, naming Him as the only Way to Him. He is our salvation. Brad, you are quite confused. Only by the Son can we have salvation of the Father, Who draws us. How does He do so? Paul puts it this way:
“How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, ‘How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!'” (Romans 10:14-15 MKJV)
We find that Universalists in general are very ignorant of the Scriptures, and of those verses they are aware, they distort them. Their intent appears to be to get the goods without the price. Salvation is free, yes; it is for all, yes, but it will cost you your life. The preaching of the cross is about dying to the world, and living unto God. It is not about “Jesus died on the cross, all is fine now, has been for 2000 years, we are all saved, let’s tell everyone there is nothing more to do!” The pre and post resurrection records of the Scriptures call for repentance and the taking up of the cross, identifying with Jesus Christ here on earth, “hating even the garment spotted with the flesh.” You have been taught and do propose to “come up another way”:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, He who does not enter into the sheepfold by the door, but going up by another way, that one is a thief and a robber.” (John 10:1 MKJV)
You presume to enter the wedding feast without a wedding guest garment. Does it not occur to you that a garment is required, that it is possible, by the testimony of the Word of God, that there are some who presume to enter without one, and that you are required to have something to enter? It does not simply end with, “It happened 2000 years ago!”
We could never believe in God if God didn’t first give us the gifts of faith and grace. Salvation will come to all, but each in his own order.
We do not preach otherwise. Why do you speak as though we do?
In this email, you said this…..
“Not everyone is a child of God, so God would not refer to all as His children.”
Yet, God is the Father of all spirits (Hebrews). God is all and IN all says Galations…..here are a few passages clearly showing this….
ZEC 12:1 NIV This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares:
ECC 12:7 NIV and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
God has fathered all things in that He has created them. However, while you quote these Scriptures, interpreting and applying them generally to argue that all are His children (which they are, insofar as He created them), what do you do with the ones I have pointed out to you, along with:
“Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:17-18 MKJV)
Why would He say He WILL BE their father when, as you say, He is already? Do you not see the error in your understanding, or lack thereof?
MAL 2:10 ESV Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?
Here you quote, erroneously again, words spoken by the chosen people of God. He was not speaking of the heathen nations around him. Malachi was speaking of those who had a covenant with God, and God with them. If you know anything of the Scriptures, you will find that there was a distinct difference between God’s relationship with Israel and that of the other nations. For example, it is recorded, “Out of Egypt have I called My Son,” referring to the nation of Israel being redeemed through Moses from Egypt.
According to you, Egypt is His son too (and creation-wise that is true), so why would He be calling His son out of His son? Brad, you are spouting the conventional error of Universalists who presume to take upon themselves the same dignity and privileges reserved only for His sons, those who love and obey Him by virtue of a new birth, whereby they have become His children.
Will all be saved in the ages to come? Yes, but we cannot live in the past, and we cannot live in the future. As it stands, very few are His children by faith and the new birth. Speaking of the future as though it is the present is folly. You cannot escape present obligation. You cannot “eat your cake and have it too.”
NU 16:22 NIV But Moses and Aaron fell face down and cried out, “O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?”
EPH 4:4 NIV There is one body and one Spirit– just as you were called to one hope when you were called — one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Again, you presume. God is Father of all by creation, but as other Scriptures plainly declare, only certain chosen are His express, spiritual children by a new birth. How do you know that Paul, by saying “all,” was not meaning all believers, according to the context?
Hear this:
“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they were of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out so that it might be revealed that they were not all of us.” (1 John 2:19 MKJV)
Are there those who “do not righteousness”? Of course there are. What does John have to say of them? Read:
If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who does righteousness has been born of Him. (1 John 2:29 MKJV)
HEB 12:9 NIV Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!
No argument there at all, Brad. So do it.
So then, since it is the spirit within us that gives us life and this spirit is the offspring of God, then how can you believe that this divine spirit of our Father will not be saved from hell?
Who says we believe it?
Have some actually thought this out? What some must believe (unknowingly) is that God spirit children will remain in hell forever.
That is ridiculous.
So why tell us? Have you red these papers? The Good News, The Reconciliation of All Things, and Who Then Can Be Saved?!
You say things that are “ridiculous” while you deride others who think “ridiculous” things. Besides, it is by grace that people know what they know that is true. So who are you to boast of wisdom? Why are you accusing us of teaching things that we do not teach, and who are you to be proud of understanding as though you arrived at it on your own, even while you say that unless God gives it to us, we do not have it? Brad, you are full of contradiction. That is because you are not born again. You have some true doctrine, but that is all you have. Better you should be ignorant, than to know and have nothing.
Why? Because Christ is in all and will save all. When Paul said to hand the sinner over to Satan so that his spirit may be saved, he was revealing a wonderful truth. Our spirit will be saved. Our spirit ALWAYS returns to God. It can be no other way. To deny this is to deny the truth found in the passages above. To deny this is to deny true spiritual knowledge.
True spiritual knowledge? I think we can establish that you have much to learn, even while you speak some true things.
Now Paul, if we are talking about someone’s soul……that is an entirely different matter. We are spirit, soul and body. The soul that sins dies. Jesus said that both body and soul will be destroyed in hell.
Will be? Is it that definite? You continue to abuse Scripture horribly, twisting the Lord’s words. He did not say what you say He said. Here is what He said:
“And do not fear those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28 MKJV)
Is that not quite different from what you say? Furthermore, it is written:
“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV)
What do you do with that? And why would one preserve something blameless only to trash it at the Lord’s coming?
This is why many are said to be on the broad path to their destruction. These carnal minds (souls) cannot and will not ever enter the Kingdom of God.
You “believe” that all will be saved, which is true. To be saved means that one enters into harmony and fellowship with God. Salvation entails faith and obedience by a new birth. To be born again and to have fellowship with God through Jesus Christ means that you must be with God, and therefore in the Kingdom (rulership and dominion) of God.
Only those with the mind of Christ will enter the Kingdom. In fact, Jesus made it perfectly clear who enters the Kingdom….He said “ONLY those who do my Father’s will.”
You have that backwards, Brad. Only those who enter the Kingdom have the mind of Christ, and not the other way around. That is the problem with the self-righteous, Universalists included. They think they have it made, with nothing to do, or, in spite of their proclamation that all are saved by grace, they presume to work their way in. You are full of contradiction. It would be so nice if you could just hear yourself, and more importantly, repent!
But again, as Pauls says, Christ will bring all into subjection and then the Son will be made subject to the Father so that God will be all in all.
Trying to get back on track again? You need to get on it for the first time, in reality, and not in carnal understanding, which, as good as it may sound, and as true as it may reason, is still at enmity with God:
“For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be. So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Romans 8:6-8 MKJV)
I find most Christians that will not accept the higher teachings of universal salvation are simply selfish and pridefull. They want to be the only one who are right. This is natural and this feeds their egos and bolster’s their religious mindset. These religious souls are sometimes radical and violent. In fact, the beliefs that many Christians hold fast to today were conceived by some very violent and evil men…..they were NOTHING like Jesus or the early followers who would have never used violence or fear to bring anyone to Christ.
Friend, let me tell you this: You do not know the Lord. How then can you say who is or was like Jesus? As well, you use a form of violence even in this letter, by your mouth, in that you speak when there is nothing to be said on some things, and on other matters, when you have nothing to say, and on still others, you say erroneous things, using Scripture in a perverted way. Is that not using violence of the mouth to bring someone to Christ? Are you not aware of the Lord’s words?
“But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment” (Matthew 12:36 MKJV)
To recap….God is the Father of all and loves all…..the sooner you accept this in your head, the sooner you can start feeling this in your heart. The only way to love others as ourself is to see that we are one in Christ….and Christ is in all. What I do to the least of them, I do to Christ. Why can’t you see the universalism of Christ and his salvation? Is it because you want to be speacial? I want to help bring God’s Kingdom to earth and save the world. I want Christ to take over my being so that I no longer live, but Christ lives through me. This is my most inner desire because this is the way of God. This is the way God will save the world because God’s Seed is in all…and when this Seed matures, Christ is born in us! That is the Good News and the Truth!
peace,
brad
First, take the trouble to know what we are saying before you speak. We come in Him to you. Secondly, learn so that you may have the right to speak. Until then, you are in your own righteousness, which Isaiah described in dramatic terms:
“But we are all as the unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as a menstruation cloth. And we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” (Isaiah 64:6 MKJV)
Some Scriptures to instruct you on the words of your mouth, Brad:
“The mouth of a righteous one is a well of life; but violence covers the mouth of the wicked.” (Proverbs 10:11 MKJV)
“The heart of the righteous studies to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.” (Proverbs 15:28 MKJV)
“An ungodly witness scorns judgment, and the mouth of the wicked devours iniquity.” (Proverbs 19:28 MKJV)
“The words of a wise mouth are gracious; but the lips of a fool will swallow him. The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness; and the end of his talk is wicked madness.” (Ecclesiastes 10:12-13 MKJV)
I may be rough on you, Brad, but you are young, foolish, and unlearned. Turn to the Lord with all your heart, repent of your pride and presumption, if perhaps He will show you mercy, deliver and cleanse you from the filth of the world, its ways and thoughts. I do wish you well.
Earnestly contending for the genuine faith, not of the mind but of the heart, as you say but do not have,
Victor Hafichuk
From: Paul Cohen
To: Brad
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:39 PM
Subject: God’s Work of Salvation
Hi Brad,
Thank you for your letter. Another brother in the Lord, Victor, with whom I am called to serve, has written you a reply independently of my response here. I send it to you separately. My reply follows in the text of your letter.
Hello Paul,
My name is brad….and I just received this email from you.
I hear what you are saying and in many ways we agree. Yet, I wonder what you believe the truth that Christ is all in all actually means.
We believe “all” means all. Read our writings, The Reconciliation of All Things, and The Good News. I think I can point out something that is a stumbling block in your understanding of these things. Here is the context of the Scripture you refer to:
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ’s at His coming; then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. For it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death. For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him. But WHEN all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all things in all” (1 Corinthians 15:22-28 MKJV).
What is an accomplished fact in Christ still must be accomplished in those of us called and chosen, and in all of creation to follow, each man “in his own order.”
“He that endures to the end shall be saved” (Matt. 10:22 ANT).
That is enduring not just in everyday life, with heaven on the other side when it is over, but with the Lord here and now, in His temptations in us. The confusion comes because some presume to have the victory before even being given to enter the race. They do not possess these things in reality, only having heard of them as theory, and not having coming into contact with the Real Thing. They have not been born again by the will of God. This is what tares are all about. They too spring up from the earth as does wheat, and look like wheat, but are not.
What do you think Jesus meant when he said what we do the to least we do to him?
Jesus is talking about His brethren here, not the tares (or unbelievers). Not having the Spirit of God, you cannot tell the difference. It does not even appear that you are acknowledging there is something to differentiate in the first place.
We are also told by the Lord Jesus to love our enemies, and to do good to those who treat us poorly (Matt. 5:44). This too makes the point that not all are His brethren, does it not? If not brethren, then not born of Him.
Christ is universal, therefore so is His salvation. It is the work of Christ that saves us. In fact, we cannot even come to God without Christ first drawing us. We could never believe in God if God didn’t first give us the gifts of faith and grace. Salvation will come to all, but each in his own order.
Did you read the first paragraph of my writing? It appears you have not red the document carefully. In the first few sentences I wrote:
“The reconciliation of all things is a wonderful truth promised by God, the Lord Jesus Christ being declared both the beginning and the end of all things. It is written that to Him every knee shall bow, and all will know Him, from the least to the greatest. That is the Good News of God, which we do not dispute, but joyously affirm.”
So what are you trying to tell us?
In this email, you said this…..
“Not everyone is a child of God, so God would not refer to all as His children.”
Yet, God is the Father of all spirits (Hebrews). God is all and IN all says Galations…..here are a few passages clearly showing this….
ZEC 12:1 NIV This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares:
Nothing said here about being a son of God.
ECC 12:7 NIV and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Nothing said about being a child of God. Becoming a son of God is salvation of the whole man, body, soul, and spirit. What you quote does not say that upon death a man automatically becomes a son of God. “But man, though high in honor, does not remain; he is like the animals that perish” (Psalms 49:12 MKJV).
MAL 2:10 ESV Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?
Spoken to the children of God. Jesus referred to this as well, when He said, “If He called those gods with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken…” (John 10:35 MKJV, referring to Psalm 82:6). The Word of God was not given to all, but only to Israel of that day.
NU 16:22 NIV But Moses and Aaron fell face down and cried out, “O God, God of the spirits of all mankind, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?”
Nothing said about all spirits being children of God, only about His sovereignty over all.
EPH 4:4 NIV There is one body and one Spirit– just as you were called to one hope when you were called– 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Spoken to the children of God. Those not partaking of the baptism of His Spirit are not His children. “But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His” (Romans 8:9 KJV).
HEB 12:9 NIV Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!
Again, spoken to believers, born of God. Yet it applies to all, and in due time all will submit, and live. He has determined it to be so in Christ, and that is why we are here writing to you this day, as part of His work to bring that about, in the way He has chosen to manifest Himself and requires it to be.
Because God gave breath to all of His creation does not make all of His creation sons of God. Firstly, only man, of all creatures, is made in the image of God, and secondly, only those men specifically born of Him, which the Scriptures teach is something that happens to those whom He chooses, are added to His church, the body of Christ (Acts 2:47, 1 Cor. 12:27).
Here is what another wrote to us in reply to the same document, and what Victor wrote back about the children of God:
In your letter you mention that “Not all are children of God”. May I ask where you believe that every creature comes from? Who creates mankind and the spirit of life within them? Does our Father create and then disavow those He made? I’m not sure I understand what your trying to say, or even why you sent me this email. I count Gary as a friend. I respect your opinion but if your waging a war against a man who I call friend then I don’t think I can read any more of your letters.
Thank you,
Scott
We responded:
Concerning who are children of God and who are not, have you never red the Scriptures? Will you not know the stance and essence of your friends? It is true that God has “fathered” all things, in that He created all things. However, there are “sons of God” and “daughters of men” (Genesis 6), children of this world and children of light (Luke 16:8; Eph. 5:8), sons of God and sons of the devil, who are not sons of God (John 8:41-43). Your argument, therefore, is not primarily with us, but with the One Who wrote the Scriptures. That which we teach is from Scripture. As it is written by a son of God, concerning THE Son of God:
But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. (John 1:12-13 MKJV)
As the Jews said to Jesus, so you say to us:
We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. (John 8:41 KJV)
Jesus replied:
If God were your father, you would love Me, for I went forth and came from God; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me. (John 8:42 MKJV)
You say to us: “I’m not sure I understand what your tring to say…”
Jesus said to those Jews:
Why do you not know My speech? Because you cannot hear My Word.
(John 8:43 MKJV)
You reject us, saying you count Gary as a friend, yet you do not know who is or who is not a child of God. If Gary were a true teacher of God, and therefore your true friend, then you would know who is and who is not a child of God. Jesus said to the Jews who did not receive Him:
You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, you do not believe Me.
(John 8:44-45 MKJV)
Scott, we have no personal ill feelings toward Gary or anyone else. However, he is a false teacher, along with many others. As he reserves the right to bear false witness of God, and you to defend him, that much more do we have the right (and obligation) to bear true witness of God against him. As you are a self-confessed friend of a false teacher of God, where does that leave you?
We are not afraid or ashamed to expose false teachers. They publicly proclaim their damnable heresies and diabolical doctrines, deceiving themselves and other people, and you expect those who know the truth, those who ARE sons of God, to sit idly by and not speak up? We are not sorry to disappoint you, no, not for a moment.”
Your letter continues: So then, since it is the spirit within us that gives us life and this spirit is the offspring of God, then how can you believe that this divine spirit of our Father will not be saved from hell? Have some actually thought this out?
It should be clear by now that we do not believe that. However, it was not by our own thinking that we received our doctrine, or by “thinking it out,” as you put it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ in us. This is something that you too, Brad, must enter into to be saved.
What some must believe (unknowingly) is that God spirit children will remain in hell forever. That is ridiculous. Why? Because Christ is in all and will save all. When Paul said to hand the sinner over to Satan so that his spirit may be saved, he was revealing a wonderful truth. Our spirit will be saved. Our spirit ALWAYS returns to God. It can be no other way. To deny this is to deny the truth found in the passages above. To deny this is to deny true spiritual knowledge.
Is this spiritual knowledge? Not according to Scripture:
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit; by which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.” (1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV)
And:
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are written in Heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect” (Hebrews 12:22-23 MKJV)
“I see nothing about imperfect spirits being found with God. All things are His, is the point. The flesh and the things of this world perish, but He endures forever. That you are wrong is not so much the issue, but that you are walking in carnal knowledge in place of the spiritual is. It is not the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom you place your trust and confidence, but in what you think you know.
And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.” (1 Corinthians 8:2 MKJV)
Now Paul, if we are talking about someone’s soul……that is an entirely different matter. We are spirit, soul and body. The soul that sins dies. Jesus said that both body and soul will be destroyed in hell. This is why many are said to be on the broad path to their destruction. These carnal minds (souls) cannot and will not ever enter the Kingdom of God. Only those with the mind of Christ will enter the Kingdom. In fact, Jesus made it perfectly clear who enters the Kingdom….He said “ONLY those who do my Father’s will.”
This is confusion. Man cannot be separated into pieces, like a dead fish. There is a resurrection of the dead. That means there is a body. Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh to die in vain. He was not raised a spirit, but as a body.
“Behold My hands and My feet, that I am He! Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have.” (Luke 24:39 MKJV)
He came to save the whole man, body, soul and spirit.
“But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth, (2 Thessalonians 2:13 MKJV)
“And may the God of peace Himself fully sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Thessalonians 5:23 LITV)
But again, as Pauls says, Christ will bring all into subjection and then the Son will be made subject to the Father so that God will be all in all.
I find most Christians that will not accept the higher teachings of universal salvation are simply selfish and pridefull. They want to be the only one who are right. This is natural and this feeds their egos and bolster’s their religious mindset. These religious souls are sometimes radical and violent.
I think you need to look in the mirror, friend. Are you not proud of your doctrine? Has not this pride blinded you, too? Because you are blind you do not see us, or know where we are coming from. I hope you will be willing to be honest about how you are wrong in your assessments here, and that this will serve to humble you, as it should.
In fact, the beliefs that many Christians hold fast to today were conceived by some very violent and evil men…..they were NOTHING like Jesus or the early followers who would have never used violence or fear to bring anyone to Christ.
What many call Christian is not Christian at all. Of this there is no doubt. It is common knowledge, even amongst the offenders. As for saying that Jesus Christ never uses fear, you are wrong:
“And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.” (Revelation 11:13 KJV)
“And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Revelation 6:15-16 KJV)
“Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.” (2 Corinthians 5:11 KJV)
“We use fear, not as men use fear, for we preach not the fear of man, but the fear of God, as Jesus also taught:
But I will forewarn you Whom you shall fear: Fear Him, which after He has killed has power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.” (Luke 12:5 AKJV)
This is a major point in the paper I sent you. Universalists (I speak of those who make a god of the doctrine of universal salvation) do not fear God, or revere Him. It is not, to them, about following Jesus Christ as Lord, but promoting Him as the Savior of all men. Brad, you cannot have the latter without the former. Universalists do not teach the fear of God, or submission to His will, and the taking up of the cross. It is all about everyone being saved, and believing the doctrine, but nothing about the path of truth one must take through the fires of God to get there.
To recap….God is the Father of all and loves all…..the sooner you accept this in your head, the sooner you can start feeling this in your heart. The only way to love others as ourself is to see that we are one in Christ….and Christ is in all. What I do to the least of them, I do to Christ. Why can’t you see the universalism of Christ and his salvation? Is it because you want to be speacial? I want to help bring God’s Kingdom to earth and save the world. I want Christ to take over my being so that I no longer live, but Christ lives through me. This is my most inner desire because this is the way of God. This is the way God will save the world because God’s Seed is in all…and when this Seed matures, Christ is born in us! That is the Good News and the Truth!
Brad, we do have, here and now, what you say you want. Are you willing to honestly read what I have written, and to begin listening to those who can lead you where you say you want to go, or are you going to wing it yourself, with your head in the clouds, filled with doctrine and theory, but never living in reality as God would have it? Which will it be?
I receive your salutation of peace, and believe you mean us well. We contend not with your flesh, but for the faith that was once delivered to the saints, which alone brings salvation in Christ, whereas knowledge without the cross and obedience brings confusion and, ultimately, destruction.
Paul
From: Brad
To: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Reply from Victor
“Brad, but you are young, foolish, and unlearned. Turn to the Lord with all your heart, repent of your pride and presumption, if perhaps He will show you mercy, deliver and cleanse you from the filth of the world, its ways and thoughts.”
Your judgment is incorrect. You know nothing about me…you have not read my writings….you do not know my heart…..you do not know my mind. I have argued with many that believe as you do. They are religious, but lack spirituality. They don’t understand that Christ is the Savior of the World. They don’t understand that God’s plan of salvation is perfect…..everything came from God and everything will return to God…..ALL things will be restored.
We are wasting each other’s time because I am not seeking a religion. I seek the Truth. According to you then, we have no responsibility to help others because Jesus isn’t in them. We will not be judged for walking past a suffering non-believer? Go ahead a live according to what you believe and I will do the same. That is all we can do. I believe Christ (the Seed of God) is in all. I believe that even those who are not “born of the spirit” YET are still children of God in the same way that unborn children should not be aborted…..they are human beings. Why do so many Christians vehemently defend the life of the unborn child, but then deny the life of the unborn spiritual children of God? Sounds like hypocrisy…..or a complete lack of spiritual understanding. I have found that many “Christians” are very carnal-minded in that they cannot understand that they are in fact spirit from God…everyone and everything is spirit. All the physical manifestations will pass away and all that will live on will be spirit. That is the truth that many cannot accept.
I tell you what….if you read all of my writings, then you can return to me and put your judgment upon me. Then at least you might have some idea where I am coming from.
From: Brad
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: God’s Work of Salvation
“This is a major point in the paper I sent you. Universalists (I speak of those who make a god of the doctrine of universal salvation) do not fear God, or revere Him. It is not, to them, about following Jesus Christ as Lord, but promoting Him as the Savior of all men. Brad, you cannot have the latter without the former. Universalists do not teach the fear of God, or submission to His will, and the taking up of the cross. It is all about everyone being saved, and believing the doctrine, but nothing about the path of truth one must take through the fires of God to get there.“
Dear Paul,
The “fear of the Lord” is the BEGINNING of wisdom……it is not the end, so we must move past that. Perfect love casts out ALL fear. It is like when a child looks up to his father in the natural. The reason he obeys his fathers is out of fear of punishment. But as the child matures, the child begins to love and respect his father, so the child obeys his father out of love and respect. You are right, I do not fear God…..I am beyond that. God is my Father….I am his son. You have pegged my all wrong. I preach that we must follow Christ to our death! I preach that “brad” my lay down his life so that Christ lives in him. I teach that “brad” should be NOTHING because Christ is everything. You have no idea what I teach because you have not read my teachings. You have simply lumped me with everyone else. I absolutely teach that the ONLY way to enter the Kingdom of God is according to Jesus’ words…”ONLY those who DO my Father’s will can enter the Kingdom.” It is that plain and simply. We must surrender our life, our will and our being to God. That is the ONLY way! “paul” and “brad” must be living sacrifices…..they must no longer live so that Christ, our true life, shall live through them! Do you understand and accept what true salvation is? It is making your old self nothing, so that your true self, who is the image of God and Christ, can bring God’s Kingdom to earth.
No, you have me all wrong. In every age, very few actually are “saved” from Hades, the place of the dead. Many go the way of destruction. Many so-called Christians are presently in hell and may stay there for many ages. Jesus came into our world (Hades) to save us…to overcome death. He has done this and now is rescuing us, one by one. He will not stop until all have been lifted out of this spiritual prison. The only thing that separates sinners from salvation is time and God has all the time in the world.
I tell you what…read all of my writings then you can make judgments about me and my teachings. Until then you are simply speaking in ignorance because you know nothing of what I teach.
I don’t care for arguing and I will not carry on in that manner. However, I will answer any questions you have about my faith and teachings.
peace,
brad
From: Brad
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Reply from Victor
“In fact, we cannot even come to God without Christ first drawing us.“
“Your generalities serve no purpose, and your use of Scripture is abusive. I have quoted Scripture that you have referred to inaccurately. Here you do so again.“
JN 12:30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, (I, Christ Jesus, the Son) will DRAW ALL men to myself.”
No need to apologize….i know where you are coming from…
peace,
brad
From: Paul Cohen
To: Brad
“Jesus answered and said, This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself” (John 12:30-32 MKJV).
Brad, Victor was not in error, despite what you think this Scripture is saying. Notice that Jesus did not say He would draw all men to the Father (God), as you expressed it in your letter. He said He would draw all men to Himself. So, while you are trying to prove Victor wrong for his referral to Scripture, which says that the Father draws men to Christ, you are still wrong in what you wrote.
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Jesus draws men to the Father.
In fact, the act of men drawing others to God happens to be a significant characteristic of the antiChrist spirit. Men presuming to be in Christ think they can “love” people to God by the Spirit of Christ, by the “light that is in them,” and so “witness” with “power.” The truth is that they are witnesses unto themselves of their own love while declaring His Name. Nowhere in Old or New Testaments is it recorded that the saints won anyone to God by loving them…nowhere, not even with Jesus. This is the antiChrist spirit.
That is not to say that saints do not preach or teach the good news, or bear witness of the Lord, but it is not by our power that we do so (“Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit, says the Lord”). It is not to say that we do not love, but it is His love and not our cheap, carnal counterfeit, seen everywhere.
However, what Victor wrote you about the Father drawing men to Christ is in agreement with the Scripture you have quoted, which I will proceed to prove to you, though without faith it will mean nothing to you. I will also tell you, after proving to you what the Scripture is saying, what your problem is that causes you to be so blind and obstinate, for which you are in great need of repentance.
Besides the Scripture you quoted (above), Jesus also said in another place that the Father must first draw a person to Him, the Christ, and then He, the Christ, would raise that person up to life. He said:
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draw him, and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44 MKJV).
But Paul seems to contradict this, by saying:
“And God has both raised up the Lord, and also will raise us up by His own power” (1 Corinthians 6:14 MKJV).
So, Who is doing the raising? Jesus said He would do it, and Paul wrote that God the Father would do it. Jesus said the Father draws men to Him, and then He said that He, Jesus, would do that. I will give you yet another example of this apparent contradiction or confusion. Jesus, in front of many witnesses, said that He would raise His body up:
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19 KJV).
Yet Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, says that God the Father raised Jesus up:
“God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are my Son, this day have I begotten You. And as concerning that He raised him up from the dead, [now] no more to return to corruption, He said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David” (Acts 13:33-34 KJV 2000).
“Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now He strictly commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day in which He is going to judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He appointed, having given proof to all by raising Him from the dead” (Acts 17:30-31 MKJV).
“…that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him… according to the working of His mighty strength which He worked in Christ in raising Him from the dead, and He seated Him at His right hand in the heavenlies…” (Ephesians 1:17,19,20 MKJV).
So Who is doing the drawing to, and raising up of, the Son of Man? The Scriptures point to both the Father and the Son. The answer is also recorded by John:
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I might take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down from Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. I have received this commandment from My Father” (John 10:17-18 MKJV). And:
“Jesus spoke these words and lifted up His eyes to Heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son so that Your Son also may glorify You, even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him” [Note: we see again that the Father gave them to Him, or drew them to Him.] (John 17:1-2 MKJV).
Matthew confirms the same in these words spoken by the Lord after His resurrection:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18 MKJV).
All authority and power belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ! He is God. He came in the flesh, fulfilled the commandment of the God the Father in the laying down and taking up of His life as the Son, and was thereafter seated on the throne of God. As the Scripture says:
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory” (1 Timothy 3:16 MKJV).
“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.” Jesus Christ, in the laying down and raising up of His life, glorified God for all mankind.
“If God be glorified in Him, God shall also glorify Him in Himself, and shall straightway glorify Him” (John 13:32 KJV).
As it has been declared: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” (Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV). Jesus Christ is the manifest glory of God. There is no other way for us to know God.
“Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me” (John 14:6 MKJV).
“No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him” (John 1:18 MKJV).
The Father, Whom we cannot see, has drawn His saints to Christ, by Whom we can see and know Him as He is truly is.
“And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding so that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life” (1 John 5:20 KJV 2000).
Brad, the reason you are confused, and do not know these things; the reason you resist those sent of God, and argue about things you do not know, is because you have not known or seen Jesus Christ. You are not His. You have knowledge and theory, but you have never repented. You are as one of those whom my paper describes, your head in the clouds with ethereal notions of spiritual life, but there is no reality or understanding on your part. You are an idol worshiper, serving a false christ made in your own image, after vain philosophy and the deceits of men. You are lost and confused in mental theories of things you do not comprehend, not having the Spirit.
“But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves” (Jude 1:10 KJV).
We do very readily see you. The problem is that you do not see or hear us.
“He who is of God hears God’s Words. Therefore you do not hear them because you are not of God” (John 8:47 MKJV).
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 MKJV).
You make the revealing and foolish statement in your other letter to me that you are beyond the fear of God. You declare to have now surpassed that in your spiritual development. But we say that you have never known the fear of God in the first place. Had you truly known the fear of God, you would know it is not an evil thing, but a good thing, and would be truly incapable of saying such a thing. You would not use the Scripture to say that perfect love casts out the fear of God.
“The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether” (Psalms 19:9 KJV).
“The LORD takes pleasure in them that fear Him, in those that hope in His mercy” (Psalms 147:11 KJV).
It is true, perfect love does cast out all fear, but not the fear of God. God alone is to be feared, or revered and worshiped. To fear anything else is to give the honor and glory that belongs to God, to that other thing. Jesus said:
“But I will warn you of whom you shall fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear Him” (Luke 12:5 AKJV).
But you do not believe in hell, or judgment, or anything unpleasant. If only your mind were so powerful! It is not, Brad, it is a deadly delusion to consider it so. We tell you Whom to fear, and in Whom to put your trust. Fear God!
Contrary to what you say about the fear of God only being for a time, it is also something spoken of as desirable and needful to the saints of God, not for a designated time, but forever.
“Honor all. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king” (1 Peter 2:17 MKJV)
When love of the brotherhood ceases, so will the fear of God.
“Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear” (Hebrews 12:28 KJV).
“And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all you His servants, and you that fear Him, both small and great” (Revelation 19:5 KJV 2000).
In this one thing you speak truly, Brad, and to your shame. You do not have the fear of God. Here is how the Scripture describes you and your preaching:
“[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD.] ‘The transgression of the wicked says within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. For he flatters himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful. The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he has left off to be wise, and to do good. He devises mischief upon his bed; he sets himself in a way that is not good; he abhors not evil'” (Psalms 36:1-4 KJV 2000).
Someday you will find your iniquity to be hateful, and you will be ashamed of your hard speeches and proud boasting. That is the work of salvation, which it has been our privilege to bring to you, as we have spoken faithfully in Him, by His grace and mercy. All honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ, the faithful and righteous judge of all.
Paul