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The Talk of a Religious Know It All

From: Javier
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:35 AM
Subject: Trinty diabolical doctrine?

Dear Victor and Paul Cohen.

How can you explain a Trinity as diabolical?  What about these and myriad other scriptures?

John 10:30 – I and [my] Father are one.

Matthew 28:19 – Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Corinthians 8:6 – But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 13:14 – The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.])

Matthew 3:16-17 – And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him..etc. (read the rest in the Bible)

John 14:26 – But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You can only send something in the name of another if you have the sent and the sender….that is more than one.

The word ‘and’ is an addition of, otherwise an ‘or’ statement would be used if God showed up in one of his only positions. (which by the way, to be able to do be a voice from heaven and being baptized simultaneously would make you more than one person, inarguably) 

Also, if it can be proven in math that three are one and one are three and each inherently possess the same unifying quality…

then it is not impossible for it to exist with God.

Assume the unifying God qualities are = 180 degrees (that which distinguishes God as God) and observe that triangle is a trinity in unity (one made up of 3 line segments) 

Each separate line segment measures to 180 degrees..i.e. referring to Father, Son and holy spirit, each separate inherently has the God qualities….though only together do they form God unified….each one is separate but at the same time part of the other.  This is descriptive of the what the above verses, and other verses, show.

The prime issue at hand is God’s great commission, and receiving Christ as a savior (the way, truth and life).  If we keep splitting hairs about the depths of God’s details, which no man will ever truly understand, we will fragment his church and body, those outside the church will be turned off to it and Mark 3:25 will apply.

God bless,

J

PS….My faith and beliefs are bible based…i also have spent many years reading and studying biblical contexts and background info, language context etc….I dont write to aggravate you..simply to further understand your interpretations.  Thank you.

From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Javier
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Javier, we’ve thoroughly answered your questions and the Scriptures you bring up in the following two sections on our site: 

Jesus Christ Is God
The Trinity

Avid Trinitarians aren’t Biblical Christians, so we’re not creating a divided house. The trinity doctrine preaches another Jesus, not Christ the Lord and Savior of the Scriptures. So it’s definitely not hair-splitting to show the night and day difference between Trinitarian doctrine and worship of the One True God, which we do by illuminating the Scriptures by His Spirit. 

If you find these things tedious, it’s because you have no use for the Spirit of Truth. You worship the Bible, yet don’t believe the One of Whom it speaks. You’re in it for yourself, Javier. You have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Paul and Victor

www.ThePathofTruth.com

From: Javier
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Paul,

 I have previously reviewed your writings….and they are devoid of an answer to various questions….one being:

What do you think the meaning of this scripture is?

Matthew 3:16-17 – And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him..etc. (read the rest in the Bible)

..and why did Christ call out…my God, my God…why hast thou forsaken me?  If God, the Father, cannot look upon sin, and sent Christ as man to bear it, does that mean that God can look upon it and become it???

The divided house is seen from the exterior, from those that want to believe yet see that even believers are split over translations…

I must say to my email was one-sided lacking in love, patience and willingness to explain to someone who has a question, I was not expecting that from men who follow Christ, as a matter of fact, I could not see Christ answering me the way you have.  You can claim that you know that there is no Trinity.  But I can claim that you lack love, which is a spiritual fruit, and patience as well.   The Lord indeed will weigh that kind of heart.  

I will suggest, if you care to win people over to your interpretation of Christ, be more like loving and understanding…..

I have read most of your other ‘papers’…and each point you make can be debated with scripture, greek language contexts, etc.

All I really wanted was for you to answer what you thought was…..directly…..if you care to win souls for Christ…Trinitarian or not….do what you do out of love….

God bless.

From:  Paul and Victor
To: Javier
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

You can’t rightly blame us for pointing you to the materials that answer your question when you don’t properly search and read them, Javier. It is you, not we, who offend God and man. 

From The Asininity of the Trinity:

Here is a famous Scripture used by GotQuestions, and trinitarians everywhere, who cry, “See all three Gods together – proof of the trinity!” 

“And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him. And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased” (Matthew 3:16-17 MKJV).

Trinity sightings are proof of man’s lack of understanding, nothing more! When God took on human form, He was still God in Heaven. God is capable of experiencing a dual existence and much more. If He fills all things (Ephesians 1:23) and by Him all things consist (Colossians 1:17), then what is the problem with Him becoming a man and appearing in the flesh? Does He suddenly not fill all things because He takes on human form? If a drop of rain falls on the desert, does the ocean cease to exist? How foolish are the idolaters who place arbitrary limitations on the Almighty Creator!

Regarding the idolaters’ explanation of the scenario just described by Matthew, where the Spirit descends and the Father speaks, as though they are separate entities, have you not heard that the Holy Spirit fathered Christ? 

“And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God” (Luke 1:35 MKJV). 

The Son of God is the Son of the Holy Spirit. This proves the Holy Spirit is God! So when God, Who is the Father, speaks, it is the Holy Spirit speaking, even though God is described in the same place as the Holy Spirit descending as a dove. The different titles only indicate different functions performed by the One and only God, our Lord and Creator.

God, Who is the Spirit, Who is the Son, always speaks from Heaven:

“See that you do not refuse Him Who speaks. For if they did not escape, those who refused him that spoke on earth, much more we shall not escape if we turn away from Him Who speaks from Heaven, Whose voice then shook the earth…” (Hebrews 12:25-26 MKJV).

The incarnation of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, spoke from Heaven while He walked the earth as a man, as testified by John the Immerser:

“He Who comes from above is above all; he who is from the earth is earthly and speaks from the earth. He Who comes from Heaven is above all, and what He has seen and heard, that He testifies, and no one receives His testimony” (John 3:31-32 MKJV).

The Lord Himself also testified: “And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He Who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man Who is in Heaven” (John 3:13 MKJV).

“Then what if you should see the Son of Man going up where He was before? It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life” (John 6:62-63 MKJV).

There were not three members of a trinity operating at the Lord’s baptism. There was only the One True God making known His Person and the awesome happenings at hand, for our sakes. [END QUOTE]

Paul and Victor

From: Javier
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Hello Paul, 

Thanks for your reply.

I do not seek enmity between us in any way.  Nor will I judge you for your what i may deep your errant point of views.  Fact is we might end up debating this til the end of time…..does not the bible say this of God:

Isaiah 55:8-9

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Will you or I be cast into the lake of fire upon eschatological completion because of not understanding the existence Trinity or the lack thereof?  If I spend a lifetime bringing souls to Christ, will I receive less of a crown for disagreement with other Christians as to one aspect of God?  Then let the Lord be the judge, not you.  Remember, there were others that were not the disciples preaching Christ and casting demons and when the disciples self-righteously brought this up, what was Christ’s answer?  Things for you to think about.

Does the word hermeneutics ring a bell with you?  Do you not accept that with any divine text that there is some element of it that will never be fully understood?

You contradict yourself when you say:

Trinity sightings are proof of man’s lack of understanding, nothing more!…  Does He suddenly not fill all things because He takes on human form? If a drop of rain falls on the desert, does the ocean cease to exist? How foolish are the idolaters who place arbitrary limitations on the Almighty Creator!

First, there is not just one stand alone scripture that supports the Trinity…there are many.  Be no means is there a lack of understanding.  I do agree with you that God is in all things and everywhere for that matter, that is scriptural.  This one for example:

 Mark 15:34

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

..and why did Christ call out…my God, my God…why hast thou forsaken me?  If God, the Father, cannot look upon sin, and sent Christ as man to bear it, does that mean that God the Father can look upon it and become it ???  Why even have a version of himself as Christ if it wasn’t for saving the world and bearing sin.  That to me shows the person of Christ and the Father for that moment as two (even though they are both God). There was an obvious seperation between God the Father and God the Son at this moment.

The Trinity concept does not exclude that he fills all things.  He is three in one and one in three.  By stating that he is one (the Father) or the other (the Son) or the other (the Spirit) and not three (the Father and the Son and the Spirit (read 1 John 5:7)  or more for that matter, if he indeed fills all things).

You say that if a drop of rain falls on the desert, does the ocean cease to exist?  Well is not a lack of Trinity less conducive to your simile?  If one drop is at the desert then the other two are at the ocean.  The ocean being God everywhere in all things.  To say God is not three but only one is also an idolatrous limitation to claim not to think that possible of him.

Then you say:

The Son of God is the Son of the Holy Spirit. This proves the Holy Spirit is God! So when God, Who is the Father, speaks, it is the Holy Spirit speaking, even though God is described in the same place as the Holy Spirit descending as a dove. The different titles only indicate different functions performed by the One and only God, our Lord and Creator.

Faith in a Trinity does not discard that Christ is not God…the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God in one.  Now you are making your own interpretation of the verse…..if the Holy Spirit is present with Christ at the baptism…why does then the voice come from the heavens?  Where does the bible explicitly say that Christ is the son of the Holy Spirit?   You say the Holy Spirit is speaking, but what does the verse say?  Be careful not to add or take away from it. Furthermore:

John 14:26

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

The Spirit is sent from God and does the will of God the Father as does Christ this can be proven scripturally.  Where there is a sender and a sent there are two (inarguably).

You are taking things out of the proper context.  Christ spoke as man on earth.  Each time he spoke the earth did not shake.

You have direly misinterpreted this verse:

“He Who comes from above is above all; he who is from the earth is earthly and speaks from the earth. He Who comes from Heaven is above all, and what He has seen and heard, that He testifies, and no one receives His testimony” (John 3:31-32 MKJV).

Christ was speaking on earth what he had seen, heard in heaven.  Had he physically been in heaven speaking down to earth, he could not be here to save us.   It does not say he was speaking from heaven physically being there.  You need to brush up on your greek translations and contexts of scripture and stop making your own.  This was an emphasis by John the Baptist (or the Immerser, as you say) and means that He that is of the earth is earthly.—This is the right sense, but the force of the words is lessened by not preserving the three-fold “of the earth” which is in the Greek. “He who is of the earth, of the earth he is, and of the earth he speaketh.” The first marks out the Baptist’s origin, as opposed to Him that comes from above; the second asserts that the nature is, in accord with this origin, human and limited in faculty, as opposed to that of Him who is above all; the third declares that his teaching is from the standpoint of human nature and limited faculty, embracing indeed divine subjects and receiving divine revelation (John 1:33), but having this treasure in earthen vessels, imperfectly realising it, and imperfectly teaching it (John 3:33). Then the contrast carries him away from this thought of self, in all its weakness, to dwell on the fulness of the teaching of the perfect Teacher, and he emphatically repeats, with the change of words suggested by “of the earth,” what he has before said of it, “He that cometh from heaven is above all.”

This repetition is the answer to the jealousy of his disciples, who wished to place him in a position of rivalry with Jesus. It is the answer to all self-assertion on the part of human teachers.  It is only made to contrast an earthly self versus the Christ that comes from heaven to speak on earth.  Not that Christ is speaking directly from heaven at all times then, as you so errantly state.

To close you state:

There were not three members of a trinity operating at the Lord’s baptism. There was only the One True God making known His Person and the awesome happenings at hand, for our sakes. 

I agree with the ‘One true God making known his persons and the awesome happening at hand, for our sake.’  Except, that your arguments, by scripture are loaded with self interpretations, lack of context (greek/hebrew translation nuances, scholastic, and historical) and get holes punched in them consistently by others who study the word of God (I have seen your web page and the very accurate and sharp responses that challenge your interpretations).

God bless you,

J.

From: Paul Cohen
To: Javier
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:48 AM
Subject: Re[5]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

We agree with you, Javier – your thoughts aren’t God’s thoughts and you don’t understand the divine text. That’s because you don’t have the mind of Christ. How, therefore, can you expound on the Nature and Person of God, as if you know what you’re talking about?   

Paul

From: Javier
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re[5]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Good day, Paul.

Is that all you have?  If my thoughts aren’t his…then yours less so.  I have testimonies of God’s hand at work in my life and the life of others that walk with him…that will contradict your opinion of not having the mind of Christ.  So I take your website, apostasy and all else with a very small grain of salt.

I can take every argument you have and shred it with biblical, historical, academia, translation (being that I am fluent in Greek and can read and understand Koine).  Not to mention so many others do the same.

Cheers.

From: Paul Cohen
To: Javier
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 7:05 AM
Subject: Re[7]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

1 Corinthians 1:21-25 MKJV
(21)  For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom did not know God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.
(22)  For the Jews ask for a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom;
(23)  but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness.
(24)  But to them, the called-out ones, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God.
(25)  Because the foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and the weak thing of God is stronger than men.

The Gospel According to Trinitarians
The Cross – Only the Death Sentence Will Avail 

Jesus Christ is more than enough for us, though despised and rejected by you, Javier. 

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in Thy sight” (Matthew 11:25-26 KJV). 

Paul

From: Javier
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: Re[7]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Paul,

I will not continue on debating with you…..it is not to the Glory of God to have dissention…and, I am not too prideful to admit that there is much on your website that good, true and biblical….

I will just make these final points:

I hope that just judging others, aside on if there is a trinity or not, you show mercy, kindness and concern and pray for those you feel are errant in their interpretations (as I do for you)…..Please realize that the bible says:

1 Corinthians 12:12-27
One Body with Many Members

12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts,[b] yet one body.

In blatantly severing yourselves off, without room for constructive argument, and questioning of things, you fragment the body.  Or basically, surely being small in numbers (Path of Truth), you are pretty much taking the role of judge and jury against the rest of the body of Christ and dismissing it as worthless, and deeming it lake of fireworthy…how terrible this is.  The best way to win minds and souls to Christ is not dogmatics, bible thumping and criticism…..it is through example….faith with deeds…as in the book of James….

Christ said: ““Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”

What does follow mean to you?  To blindly take all things as they are….heed the opinion of one man and what he interprets the bible to be and disregarding all context asunder? (which is basis for a cult)…….remain spiritual babes eternally without spiritual growth (and with it growth of who Christ is, which happens to be knowledge).  Why else will there be spiritual milk and solid food?   Please dont just dismiss me as one who thinks to know too much and has no faith…for others to know Christ crucified…they have to learn this by faith and deeds in others who bring them the word.  Knowledge is not sin or detrimental to your walk……when Christ said follow….it was so that those who do will eventually see who he is and does and will believe…...

Upon closer studying your website…..I see about 80% finger pointing (false teachers, etc.) and absolutely no information about serving, helping the poor, sharing faith with the public, location where you hold services, bible studies, congregating, etc……unless I have not viewed all of it.

You still have not replied to me about those in the bible the disciples wanted to rebuke, and Christ just said..as long as they are preaching me…leave them alone (paraphrased).  Would you rebuke me the same?  What would Christ respond to you?

Blessings,

J.

From: Paul and Victor
To: Javier
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 6:57 AM
Subject: Re[9]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

It would be a relief if you finally shut up, Javier, because your letters are so tiresome. You can’t hear a thing we’re saying, yet go on pontificating about things you know nothing about. You refuse to listen and won’t shut up – a deadly combination – for you. 

Here’s what a fellow believer and email recipient says to you after reading your previous email:

Javier,

“I can take every argument you have and shred it with biblical, historical, academia, translation (being that I am fluent in Greek and can read and understand Koine)”

You are all talk and no walk.

Dan Lysthauge 

In other words, in the vernacular of today, you are full of shit. Go ahead and be offended by the truth, pious fraud. You have been giving us what remains of the Scriptures after they’ve been consumed and evacuated from the digestive systems of corrupt, carnal men. 

So we aren’t severing ourselves from the body of Christ as you falsely accuse. The Lord has separated us from the works of men, the paths of the destroyer. The destroyer is your god, Javier, and not the Lord Jesus Christ Whom we preach. The Lord isn’t “a trinity,” but is Almighty God come in the flesh. 

“For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the anti-Christ” (2 John 1:7 MKJV).

Paul and Victor

From: Javier
To: Paul and Victor
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Re[9]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

Victor, Paul and the rest of you,

I am quite shocked at your tone and language.  Surely God is moreso.

Colossians 3:8 – But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

1 Corinthians 13:2 – If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Thank you for showing your true colors in your reply…I have no other course of action but to post it on my blog and make it known to the world that you guys do not exhibit the love of christ for others, are self-righteous, bible-bash, and resort to filthy language when you cannot validly and properly debate your point of view..

Your website is devoid of deeds and all talk.  I know my life is full of deeds and faith…and no matter what you say……

You won’t get another email from me.

From: Paul and Victor
To: Javier
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 8:25 AM
Subject: Re[11]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

“For the ruthless shall come to nothing and the scoffer cease, and all who watch to do evil shall be cut off, who by a word make a man out to be an offender, and lay a snare for him who reproves in the gate, and with an empty plea turn aside him who is in the right” (Isaiah 29:20-21 ESV).

Go right ahead and post on your blog all that we’ve said, speaking the ugly truth about you in language perfectly appropriate even if it is the vernacular of the world, of which world you are the viler part while pretending otherwise. You are such a phony. Any who approve of your filthy menstrual rags of righteousness are no doubt like you. 

Twofold child of hell, go your way, you, your proselytizer and your foolish admirers, none of which have anything whatsoever to do with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Victor and Paul

From: Javier
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Re[11]: Trinity diabolical doctrine?

I will not waste another word on such unloving, close minded, blind, sect-following individuals…

Good riddance…..

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The Gospel According to Trinitarians
Where is the trinity preached in the Bible? If you ask a Trinitarian to show you, they can only provide verses that have to be manhandled to support their confounding doctrine (and one famous verse that didn’t exist in the oldest manuscripts). That was until now – because here we present to you the unambiguous “Gospel According to Trinitarians.”

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