From: Jonathan
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 3:27 PM
Subject: Examine yourself
Hello, my name is Jon. I am a Bible school student.
Realize that I am sincere seeker of truth. If what you teach is the real truth then I am willing to accept it provided it falls in line with scripture.
You seem to say that those who teach that you are saved by saying a simple prayer are wrong. You neglect the fact that those who say this teach that the prayer must be sincere. In other words, their hearts must be in it. They are not in the wrong either for giving an example of how such a prayer should look like for even Jesus gave His disciples an example for prayer. Of course a man must truly repent but that does not mean that they will never sin again for if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and make Jesus out to be a liar. Even Paul says “for what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do – this I keep on doing.”
You even teach that one must continually confess sins and refrain from sin in order to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. How is that a work of grace? Many example in Acts can be given of those who heard the Gospel, believed, and were baptized in the Spirit shortly after. There was no abundance of confessions on their part, no abundance of seeking for it is by faith through grace.
You seem to think that because you received some kind of baptism by the Spirit that your understanding of scripture can go unchallenged, but you are wrong! I point to the example of Peter. He was baptized by the Spirit but was later influenced by Judaizers and so he no longer associated with Gentiles. He was wrong! You can be wrong as well. To be sure there are many false teachers out there as you say. It may be that you are one of them.
You point out that authors like Rick Warren are wrong because they say “None of us has given God the full glory from our lives he deserves.” How is this not a true statement? What he means is along the lines of offering yourself as a living sacrifice and not what you suppose. You say “He presses himself and others into acts of flesh the he thinks are giving glory to God.” I say these acts surely do give glory to God. They do not earn us anything but glory they surely give. Or can you say that the woman who poured out her perfume at Jesus’ feet did not give God glory? Can you say Cornelius’ prayers and gifts to the poor did not glorify God? These are the acts Warren has in mind. All of these things are from God. His grace is Jesus and the Spirit. If a man does anything in response to a message of Jesus much like a man may do after reading Rick Warren’s book, how can you say it does not give glory to God?
Be careful who you call a false teacher even Jesus was accused of doing things by Beelzebub. If you are in the truth, then I think you will recognize the truth in what I am saying. Do not think you are above correction. Do not think that only you and a handful of others have the truth for even in Elijah’s day there was a remnant God kept for himself. In the name of Jesus I pray the Holy Spirit reveal the truth in these matters to you and I.
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Jonathan
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Examine Yourself
Hi Jon,
You employ confounded words. You say, “If what you teach is the real truth then I am willing to accept it provided it falls in line with scripture.”
Since when does “real truth” ever NOT fall “in line with scripture”?
Why would you tell us you’re prepared to accept “real truth”? If you know the “real truth” or are able to judge it, why would you need to receive anything from us? Have you determined to be judge of all? What if we teach you things that are the real truth, but which you have never known to be true? As you speak, that will certainly be the case. My, how righteous you are that you’re “willing to accept it [truth]!”
Now what happens if what we teach is the real truth but in your judgment doesn’t fall “in line with scripture”? Do you know the difference between “truth” and “real truth?”
Truth is truth, friend. The question is, “Will the Lord grant you the grace to recognize, acknowledge and receive the truth?” You don’t seem to be off to a very good start. You might begin by withdrawing from your Bible school and seek the Lord’s tutelage instead of man’s. Big difference – we guarantee it.
You say, “Many example in Acts can be given of those who heard the Gospel, believed, and were baptized in the Spirit shortly after. There was no abundance of confessions on their part, no abundance of seeking for it is by faith through grace.”
No “abundance of confessions”? So John the Baptist was wrong in preparing the way of the Lord? So the multitudes going to him were wrong as they came confessing their sins? So every one of the Gospels beginning with a call to repentance is misleading?
Are you sure there was no “abundance of confessions” with Cornelius and his household for example, well in advance of the day they would receive the Spirit? How do you know? What about the Samaritans and Ephesian disciples? The “real truth” is that repentance and confession are predominantly taught everywhere throughout Scripture as crucial principles of faith.
But your problem is your lack of understanding of true grace. You’re like someone who expects parole without good behavior, or to be forgiven by the Lord without true repentance. God’s laws of morality, nature and the universe don’t work that way, contrary to many such as you who fall prey to another Jesus and another gospel, a watered down version, a free ticket without death to oneself daily by the cross of Christ.
Jon, do you really know what “true grace” is? Read Law and Grace – all “lining up with Scripture.”
You say, “You seem to think that because you received some kind of baptism by the Spirit that your understanding of scripture can go unchallenged, but you are wrong!”
“Seem” is the operative word here. Since when does anything we say give that impression? We teach no such foolishness.
“Some kind of baptism by the Spirit”? You’re telling us you’ve never received the Spirit or you wouldn’t refer to Him or to our reception of Him that way.
You say, “You can be wrong as well. To be sure there are many false teachers out there as you say. It may be that you are one of them.”
Yes, we can be wrong. Have you appointed yourself to presume to judge us in matters we as His servants and brethren are already well aware of? It seems so.
As for whether or not we’re false, it could well be, but you seem to think you already know we are. But do you? So far we’ve gathered enough evidence by several witnesses to prove you’re the one in need of examining your beam while foolishly thinking to see something in our eyes.
And what’s with the show of humility, Jon? “In the name of Jesus I pray the Holy Spirit reveal the truth in these matters to you and I.” “You “and I”? You speak as though you already know the real truth, so what’s this about asking the Holy Spirit to reveal anything to you?
What we teach is the real truth from the Lord Jesus Christ, as proven by the Scriptures we provide in our writings. So far you not only don’t accept the truth, but you argue against it without substance.
It’s apparent from your comments that you haven’t understood what we teach, but misconstrue our words much like Peter said of those who did the same things with Paul’s epistles and the rest of the Scriptures:
“And think of the long-suffering of our Lord as salvation (as our beloved brother Paul also has written to you according to the wisdom given to him as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction)” (2 Peter 3:15-16 MKJV).
For example, you write of our paper on Rick Warren:
“You point out that authors like Rick Warren are wrong because they say ‘None of us has given God the full glory from our lives he deserves.’ How is this not a true statement?”
We never said no one has given God glory. We said Rick Warren teaches men to glorify God by the works of their flesh, which is an abomination. But you don’t even know there’s a difference between works of the flesh done in the Name of Christ, and works of Christ done in men of flesh and blood by His faith in His Name. You ask:
“If a man does anything in response to a message of Jesus much like a man may do after reading Rick Warren’s book, how can you say it does not give glory to God?”
You’re totally wrong in thinking that anything anyone does gives glory to God, simply because they heard a man teach it in the Name of the Lord, or even because they heard the words of the Son of God Himself. Haven’t you heard what the Lord said to those who felt justified by the works they did in His Name?
“Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your Name, and through Your Name throw out demons, and through Your Name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!” (Matthew 7:22-23 MKJV)
What do you think it means to take the Name of the Lord in vain? Did you think it was just about using foul language? Haven’t you realized that taking His Name in vain goes way beyond this, and that there are many who talk of the Lord as if they believe, but who don’t, and aren’t walking with Him as they presume?
Romans 2:17-24 MKJV
(17) Behold, you are called a Jew, and rest in the Law, and boast in God;
(18) and know His will and approve the things excelling, being instructed out of the Law;
(19) and persuading yourselves to be a guide of the blind, a light to those in darkness;
(20) an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, who have the form of knowledge and of the truth in the Law.
(21) Therefore the one teaching another, do you not teach yourself? The one preaching not to steal, do you steal?
(22) The one saying not to commit adultery, do you commit adultery? The one detesting idols, do you rob temples?
(23) You who boast in Law, do you dishonor God through breaking the Law?
(24) For the Name of God is blasphemed among the nations because of you, as it is written.
People aren’t saved by prayer, but by faith in Christ. The prayer of faith is effectual. But it doesn’t end there, because believers need to continue in faith. This includes “refraining” from sin, as you put it, and confessing sin where necessary.
Nowhere do we use your verbiage that people must “continually confess sins,” but what problem do you have with people confessing sins if they’re continually committing them and seeking to make things right? The Lord didn’t have a problem with this. On the contrary, He endorsed it:
“Then Peter came to Him and said, Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Until seven times? Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven” (Matthew 18:21-22 MKJV).
You have some serious conflict with the Lord, Jon, the One Who is the Truth you profess to seek. You haven’t approached us as a humble seeker of Truth, as you’ve declared yourself to be, but as a proud speaker of untruth in the Lord’s Name. And by doing so in His Name, you’re exposed and confounded by Him.
So are you prepared to receive correction, as you ask of us, or will you remain in your arrogant confusion and continue to take the Lord’s Name in vain?
Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk