From: Santu
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:13 AM
Subject: Thank you
Hello Victor,
Thank you very much for your careful analysis of the Holiness and Repentance Movement. I must say that you asked questions that many people in the movement are not ready to ask themselves. I strongly question the movement and the thrust of the its ministry. I am a Kenyan, and I can tell you that the fruits of this “ministry” are devastating in many places.
Barely thirty meters from my place of ministry (church), is one of their churches and in some instances, all they do is to listen to the prophet’s recorded message. The issue of the prophet getting the glory and not God is a huge issue. He is, as you may have seen from the responses “untouchable”. He is the man of God and all others are wicked sinners who have fallen asleep of the fact that the King is returning. Generally that is the thrust of the attitude you receive from the followers of the movement.
It was interesting to read you analysis, especially over the geographical prophesies of which I realize form a huge percentage of the man’s predictions. Could he be capitalizing on a scientific hint which the ignorant majority are unaware of? I am just curious.
The other issue is that of accountability. Who for example, disciplines the prophet when he is in error in doctrine and character? You touch that and you will be in great trouble! Why? Because the man of God is innerrant!! haha.
However brother, I am concerned with a few things which you said in your report about Owuor. First, You said that the Coming of the Lord is kind of a multiple event that happens every day in his people whom he uses to do all kinds of things in the lives of his people. I have been wondering where exactly this is written! On the other hand, the angels told the disciples in Acts 1:11, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven” Christ also taught of a public and historical even which he called the Coming of the Son of Man. This leaves us with a very definite event which the apostles Paul in 1 and 2 Thessalonians and Peter taught about very clearly. An event towards which all of us should prepare every day by living in holiness (Tit 2:11-14).
Finally, I am completely amazed by the way you portray distrust in the bible yet so boldly use it against false teachers. Of all you refutations against Owuor’s ministry, none of them appeals to “The witness of the Holy Spirit in you” as you seem to say in your analysis. Instead, you quote the bible. Amazingly in the very section which you seek to prove that the witness of God in man is the absolute authority, you use an objective rule – the bible – proving that it is above what you seek to defend, because you don’t use a weaker weapon to defend a stronger one!
I also wonder where we will be heading when every person depends on the witness of the Spirit in them to determine what God wants them to say! Wont it turn out corrupt just as you claim the bible is? I wonder. When we depend on subjective principles instead of the objective principle of the word of God, we start treading on dangerous ground. My take brother is that, when you disbelieve one little part of the word of God (The bible), you may as well just discard all of it, and you have absolutely no ground for using ANY PART OF IT!
We may talk of the weaknesses of men’s confessions and statements of faiths when they teach what the bible does not teach. But the bible is the objective rule for faith and practice. Once you shift to something that we have no way whatsoever of knowing its authenticity, you are headed for terrible error! Is that not the same thing you criticize Owuor of? Yea, he has these visions of the ark of the covenant and the rings and horses and Moses etc. But there is no way to know that it is true he saw them.
I hope I spoke in love brother and that I did not attack you. If anything I said here does attack you as a person, I greatly apologize for it and will be waiting to be shown my error. And a gain, thank you for your analysis of Owuor’s errors. You have no idea how many are following the error. This has been of great help to me as one who ministers in the context where we face these teachings face to face and are considered apostate for even believing that he could be in error, leave alone saying definitely that he is in error.
Please keep up!
Looking forward to hear from you
God bless you
Santu
From: Paul Cohen
To: Santu
Cc: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 8:11 AM
Subject: The Coming of the Lord
Hi Santu, Paul here.
Let’s see if we can answer your questions, or point you to the answers given on our site.
“First, You said that the Coming of the Lord is kind of a multiple event that happens every day in his people whom he uses to do all kinds of things in the lives of his people. I have been wondering where exactly this is written!”
When the Lord opens your eyes to His Presence, you’ll ask “where exactly isn’t this written!” All of the New Testament comes from the Lord speaking through His servants – “the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10 MKJV). How can He be testifying if not present?
Here’s something Victor wrote in a letter to another inquiring about the last days and Christ’s imminent appearing:
Last days? Yes, these are the last days. However, Paul, Peter and John all spoke over 1900 years ago saying their days were the last days too. It has been the “last days” at the ends of eras before each new era, of which there has been many, both minor and major – of persons, families, clans, regions, economies, social and religious systems, governments, nations, and empires.
As for the hope of Christ’s return, Ron, He is here! He returned at His resurrection, as He promised, and at Pentecost, as He promised before His ascension. He also came in judgment, manifesting the “Day of the Lord” when Israel was destroyed 40 years after He ascended. The Day of the Lord also came when the Roman Empire was brought down to nothing, as was the case with preceding empires.
It was the coming of the Lord and His Day in Noah’s time, in the day when Moses delivered the children of Israel from Egypt, and it was His Day when He appeared as a man to lay down His life.
Jesus Christ lives in every true believer, born again from above. Paul said:
“My children, for whom I again travail until Christ should be formed in you” (Galatians 4:19 MKJV).
He was not speaking of a time in the next world, after one’s physical death necessarily, but of a maturing that can and does come in this life. That too is His Day, His Coming, His “Second” coming, if you will, in His people, His Body, the True Church.
God came in Him. He came to live in us, and now comes in us, even as His Father came in Him:
“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me” (Matthew 10:40 MKJV).
But you are right that, one day, He will reign supreme and there will be peace for all men. What a wonderful day that will be! In a world of strife and turmoil, that is a wonderful and sure hope indeed, which the vast majority is without – woe to those! [END]
Regarding the Scripture you bring up, Acts 1:11, read The Second Coming (Christ Is Returning in a Physical Body).
“Christ also taught of a public and historical even which he called the Coming of the Son of Man.”
Are you sure? What about these words to His disciples?
“Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom” (Matthew 16:28 MKJV).
They saw the coming of the Son of Man during their generation.
“For as the lightning comes out of the east and shines even to the west, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:27 MKJV).
Is this a one-time historical event, or is it an inner spiritual one?
“But Jesus was silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, I adjure you by the living God that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens” (Matthew 26:63-64 MKJV).
Did they see the coming of the Son of Man or not? Is Christ wrong, or could it be you and your doctrine are lacking?
This isn’t to say that there are marvelous events to come, which are even happening now. We see the fig tree sprouting after 2,000 years, even more since Israel was a sovereign nation. Have you red Raising the Flag and Nation of Israel?
On the subject of Owuor, you remark:
“Of all you refutations against Owuor’s ministry, none of them appeals to ‘The witness of the Holy Spirit in you’ as you seem to say in your analysis. Instead, you quote the bible.”
You need to look again, Santu, if only you could see. The witness of the Spirit is there in every instance, wherein we apply the true principles of God revealed to us in Christ. We confirm this discernment by the Scriptures, giving the reader sure proof. What’s wrong with that? You even seem to call for such confirmation in another question you ask, although you’re mistaken about what we teach:
“I also wonder where we will be heading when every person depends on the witness of the Spirit in them to determine what God wants them to say! Wont it turn out corrupt just as you claim the bible is?”
We don’t claim the Bible is as corrupted as you say of us, portraying it as untrustworthy. There are several instances of tampering in the Scriptures, but the foundation is sure and the great bulk of material is true, inspired by God. That’s what we reflect on our site.
You, however, are applying your carnal mind to spiritual things and therefore find the fact that there are some lies in the Bible along with mistranslation, intimidating. You have no sure discernment or guidance because you aren’t led by God’s Spirit. You lack Repentance and The Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Giving men free reign to their own versions of the “witness of the Spirit” is exemplified by the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Talmud, and other denominational literature. But God has given us the Holy Scriptures as a guideline to confirm His work and revelation. “To the Law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because no light is in them” (Isaiah 8:20 MKJV).
Those who know the Lord and hear His voice won’t follow the voice of strangers or their strange testimonies.
“Once you shift to something that we have no way whatsoever of knowing its authenticity, you are headed for terrible error! Is that not the same thing you criticize Owuor of? Yea, he has these visions of the ark of the covenant and the rings and horses and Moses etc. But there is no way to know that it is true he saw them.”
Oh, but we do have a sure Testimony – from without and within, the Bible and the Spirit of the Lord. That’s what we demonstrate throughout our website for those who can receive it.
As for Owuor and whether he capitalizes on the ignorance of people, he certainly does. How much is deliberate really doesn’t matter. His poisonous falsehood is the same whatever the case.
Paul
From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Santu
Cc: Paul Cohen
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: The Coming of the Lord
Santu,
“First, You said that the Coming of the Lord is kind of a multiple event that happens every day in his people whom he uses to do all kinds of things in the lives of his people. I have been wondering where exactly this is written!”
He returned when resurrected from the dead, when normally speaking, those who die don’t return.
He returned at Pentecost to receive His disciples to Himself and dwell in them, sharing His glory with them, even as He had prayed in John 17.
He came to the Jews when Peter stood up to preach.
He came to Saul of Tarsus, to the Samaritans, the Ethiopian eunuch, the gentiles and to the Ephesian disciples, to Lydia, the Philippian jailor and his house, and to so many other disciples since His days in the flesh to this day.
Did He not promise He wouldn’t leave them comfortless but would come to them? Tell me, Santu, when would that be? Thousands of years later? Then they would have been comfortless after all, and His promise vain.
“I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” John 14:18 KJV).
He came to me in 1972, appearing to me by dream. He then took over my life in February of 1973 and delivered me from my sins, giving me a new life. He came again on January of 1975 to give my wife and me His Spirit so that He now lives IN us, as with the disciples in the upper room in Jerusalem. Finally, He came as the Third and Final Feast of Tabernacles to bring me to rest in the year 2000.
And he certainly has comforted, is comforting and will comfort me and all those who believe on Him, even as He promised.
We have seen His coming in many who are with us. He comes again and again to all those who believe.
But if you haven’t learned these things, then it is plain that while you have religion and knowledge of Him, you don’t have Him.
“Christ also taught of a public and historical even which he called the Coming of the Son of Man.”
Indeed, He did, and by your interpretation of His coming, which you have received as common doctrine from men as they interpret His words, how do you refute what I’ve just now given you here?
“Of all you refutations against Owuor’s ministry, none of them appeals to “The witness of the Holy Spirit in you” as you seem to say in your analysis. Instead, you quote the bible.”
We most certainly receive the witness of the Spirit, and by Him we receive the testimony of the Scriptures, which confirm to us what He teaches us, just as the Father gave His Son to understand and as the Son quoted from the Scriptures that which He received of the Father. If you had His Spirit, you would understand what we say.
“I also wonder where we will be heading when every person depends on the witness of the Spirit in them to determine what God wants them to say! Wont it turn out corrupt just as you claim the bible is? I wonder.”
There are those who say, “God says,” and God isn’t saying anything to them. There are those who say, “God says,” and are speaking the truth because God IS speaking to them.
How will you know the difference? And who is “we”? If a soul doesn’t depend on the witness of the Spirit, he is yet dead in his sins, as you are, seeing you disagree with the will of God. Do you honestly think you can understand the Scriptures without His revelation? And why should “it turn out corrupt” for those who rely on God personally? You ask foolish questions, Santu.
“Once you shift to something that we have no way whatsoever of knowing its authenticity, you are headed for terrible error!”
You reveal your spiritual poverty with everything you say. “No way whatsoever of knowing its authenticity”? Says who? Says the child of darkness, that’s who. But we know Him and we know all things and judge all things because we have His Mind. His Spirit leads us into all truth, as is the case with all those who are born of Him. Don’t you know that? No, it’s perfectly obvious you don’t. And because you don’t, you aren’t just “headed for terrible error,” you’re in it.
“Yea, he has these visions of the ark of the covenant and the rings and horses and Moses etc. But there is no way to know that it is true he saw them.”
“No way”? You greatly err, Santu. We DO know. Owuor sees nothing but vain imaginations and visions of devils. We know this by the Lord and His Spirit of judgment, which you lack.
You need to repent, that is, turn from yourself to Him.
Victor