From: Zip
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 7:19 PM
Subject: Question
I had a lengthy discussion with an atheist about God. In a nutshell he said he could not believe in a God who ordered the killing of an entire nation, and when the Midianite women and children were brought to Moses (Numbers 31) there was the mandated butchering of all non-virgin women and male children. Virgin women were kept “for themselves”, and he insinuated they were raped.
This is a hard verse to comprehend for anyone. But the question was asked of me, “How do you as a Christian condone this mandate by God of infanticide and rape”?
I responded that indeed this is a hard verse. However this type of behavior only occurred during a specific time/place in Israel’s history, and it was to rid the Promised land of years of sinful behavior and idolatry. Subsequent military skirmishes were defensive in nature. These nations lived lives of debauchery, participating in child sacrifice (by fire and sword), religious prostitution, and other forms of idolatry for over 400 years. God could not have them in the land to influence the Israelites. So this action was mandated. In the Midianite case, even the women were not innocent because of their seductive actions in Numbers 25. We look at this act of being contrary to a God of love and mercy, but he also must be looked at as a God of judgment.
Previously he destroyed the world with water and saved only 8 due to the extreme wickedness over the earth. These folks were much of the same ‘cloth’ and it was God’s way of protecting His people from their influence.
I mentioned that the virgin women were not raped, and we cannot read that into the text. The Israelite men were allowed to take foreign wives if they converted, and if not they were most likely made servants. But rape did not occur. Even Midian was the son of Abraham thru one of his concubines, which was a lower status that ‘wife’, but sex was consensual, otherwise rape would be considered adultery and after the law was given, stoning was the penalty. Although rape did occur in Scripture and it was dealt with strongly, and even wrongly, in the case of Dinah.
I agreed this was hard to understand in the 21st century where this action is abhorrent to our Western Civilization mindset. Yet because we are so desensitized to sin through culture and media we must realize God is holy and righteous and only His patience and desire to save us prevents Him from ending our lives even today. No, we don’t sacrifice children to fire today, but we do allow a newborn to exit the birth canal until its head shows, then sick a needle in it and suck out the brains (partial birth abortion). Yet the same folks that allow this procedure have a fit if an Indian tribe here in the Northwest kills one whale, which is their tradition and allowed by treaty. Go figure.
Anyway, I’m sure this discussion will continue. Could you give me some additional things to say to this person….especially about this type of incident? And yes, I have tried to direct the conversation to Jesus and His claims, but I’m convinced he wants a different answer to this question. And frankly, I don’t believe any answer will satisfy him.
Thanks for any help you can give.
In His grip,
Zip
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Zip
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Question
Hi Zip,
I’m answering your question about your conversation with an atheist by commenting in the following paragraph of your letter, quoted in red:
“I agreed this was hard to understand in the 21st century where this action is abhorrent to our Western Civilization mindset.”
Yes, cultural mindsets are an obstacle to seeing the truth, and can’t be truly overcome without The Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ.
“Yet because we are so desensitized to sin through culture and media we must realize God is holy and righteous and only His patience and desire to save us prevents Him from ending our lives even today.”
Culture and media desensitize to sin, but remember that sin makes one susceptible to blindly following culture and media. As sure as the sun rises in the east, sin brings death.
Luke 13:1-5 MKJV
(1) And some were present at the same time reporting to Him of the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
(2) And answering, Jesus said to them, Do you suppose that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans because they suffered such things?
(3) I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
(4) Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were sinners above all men who lived in Jerusalem?
(5) I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
“No, we don’t sacrifice children to fire today, but we do allow a newborn to exit the birth canal until its head shows, then sick a needle in it and suck out the brains (partial birth abortion). Yet the same folks that allow this procedure have a fit if an Indian tribe here in the Northwest kills one whale, which is their tradition and allowed by treaty.”
While people don’t literally pass their children through fire, they most certainly do still offer their children to Moloch, just as they still worship at the altars of Baal and Ashtoreth. These are spiritual realities no less prevalent today, and even more so. As the Lord and His apostles warned, things would get worse, not better.
You can tell your atheist correspondent that he’s a sinner – a liar and murderer, not by his own estimation, but in reality according to his thinking and ways. Here’s the description from God:
Romans 3:9-18 EMTV
(9) What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
(10) Just as it is written: “There is none righteous, no not one,
(11) There is none who understands; there is none who seeks God.
(12) All have turned aside; together they became unprofitable; there is not one doing kindness, there is not so much as one.”
(13) “Their throat is an opened grave; with their tongues they deceived”; “the poison of asps is under their lips”;
(14) “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
(15) Their feet are swift to shed blood;
(16) Ruin and misery are in their ways;
(17) And the way of peace they did not know.
(18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
At least this fellow is being honest about being an atheist, unlike the many professors of Christ that don’t believe Him. Not that this wins your acquaintance any brownie points – he is also being destroyed by his sins.
His critical references to the Scriptures are merely excuses to refuse accountability to God, as is common among unbelievers, perhaps particularly atheists.
Remember, it is the fool who says in his heart, “There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). It won’t work, no matter how long he holds out. Zip, the Lord is finished winking at such unreasonableness.
Paul and Victor
From: Zip
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Question
Thanks for your input. I will file this away for future use.