To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 7:19 PM
I had a lengthy discussion with an atheist about God. In a nutshell he said he could not believe in a God who ordered the killing of an entire nation, and when the Midianite women and children were brought to Moses (Numbers 31) there was the mandated butchering of all non-virgin women and male children. Virgin women were kept “for themselves”, and he insinuated they were raped.
This is a hard verse to comprehend for anyone. But the question was asked of me, “How do you as a Christian condone this mandate by God of infanticide and rape”?
I responded that indeed this is a hard verse. However this type of behavior only occurred during a specific time/place in Israel’s history, and it was to rid the Promised land of years of sinful behavior and idolatry. Subsequent military skirmishes were defensive in nature. These nations lived lives of debauchery, participating in child sacrifice (by fire and sword), religious prostitution, and other forms of idolatry for over 400 years. God could not have them in the land to influence the Israelites. So this action was mandated. In the Midianite case, even the women were not innocent because of their seductive actions in Numbers 25. We look at this act of being contrary to a God of love and mercy, but he also must be looked at as a God of judgment.
Previously he destroyed the world with water and saved only 8 due to the extreme wickedness over the earth. These folks were much of the same ‘cloth’ and it was God’s way of protecting His people from their influence.
I mentioned that the virgin women were not raped, and we cannot read that into the text. The Israelite men were allowed to take foreign wives if they converted, and if not they were most likely made servants. But rape did not occur. Even Midian was the son of Abraham thru one of his concubines, which was a lower status that ‘wife’, but sex was consensual, otherwise rape would be considered adultery and after the law was given, stoning was the penalty. Although rape did occur in Scripture and it was dealt with strongly, and even wrongly, in the case of Dinah.
I agreed this was hard to understand in the 21st century where this action is abhorrent to our Western Civilization mindset. Yet because we are so desensitized to sin through culture and media we must realize God is holy and righteous and only His patience and desire to save us prevents Him from ending our lives even today. No, we don’t sacrifice children to fire today, but we do allow a newborn to exit the birth canal until its head shows, then sick a needle in it and suck out the brains (partial birth abortion). Yet the same folks that allow this procedure have a fit if an Indian tribe here in the Northwest kills one whale, which is their tradition and allowed by treaty. Go figure.
Anyway, I’m sure this discussion will continue. Could you give me some additional things to say to this person….especially about this type of incident? And yes, I have tried to direct the conversation to Jesus and His claims, but I’m convinced he wants a different answer to this question. And frankly, I don’t believe any answer will satisfy him.
Thanks for any help you can give.
In His grip,
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: Question
I’m answering your question about your conversation with an atheist by commenting in the following paragraph of your letter, quoted in red:
“I agreed this was hard to understand in the 21st century where this action is abhorrent to our Western Civilization mindset.”
Yes, cultural mindsets are an obstacle to seeing the truth, and can’t be truly overcome without The Truth, the Lord Jesus Christ.
“Yet because we are so desensitized to sin through culture and media we must realize God is holy and righteous and only His patience and desire to save us prevents Him from ending our lives even today.”
Culture and media desensitize to sin, but remember that sin makes one susceptible to blindly following culture and media. As sure as the sun rises in the east, sin brings death.
Luke 13:1-5 MKJV
(1) And some were present at the same time reporting to Him of the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
(2) And answering, Jesus said to them, Do you suppose that these Galileans were sinners above all the Galileans because they suffered such things?
(3) I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
(4) Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were sinners above all men who lived in Jerusalem?
(5) I tell you, No. But unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
“No, we don’t sacrifice children to fire today, but we do allow a newborn to exit the birth canal until its head shows, then sick a needle in it and suck out the brains (partial birth abortion). Yet the same folks that allow this procedure have a fit if an Indian tribe here in the Northwest kills one whale, which is their tradition and allowed by treaty.”
While people don’t literally pass their children through fire, they most certainly do still offer their children to Moloch, just as they still worship at the altars of Baal and Ashtoreth. These are spiritual realities no less prevalent today, and even more so. As the Lord and His apostles warned, things would get worse, not better.
You can tell your atheist correspondent that he’s a sinner – a liar and murderer, not by his own estimation, but in reality according to his thinking and ways. Here’s the description from God:
Romans 3:9-18 EMTV
(9) What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
(10) Just as it is written: “There is none righteous, no not one,
(11) There is none who understands; there is none who seeks God.
(12) All have turned aside; together they became unprofitable; there is not one doing kindness, there is not so much as one.”
(13) “Their throat is an opened grave; with their tongues they deceived”; “the poison of asps is under their lips”;
(14) “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.
(15) Their feet are swift to shed blood;
(16) Ruin and misery are in their ways;
(17) And the way of peace they did not know.
(18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
At least this fellow is being honest about being an atheist, unlike the many professors of Christ that don’t believe Him. Not that this wins your acquaintance any brownie points – he is also being destroyed by his sins.
His critical references to the Scriptures are merely excuses to refuse accountability to God, as is common among unbelievers, perhaps particularly atheists.
Remember, it is the fool who says in his heart, “There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). It won’t work, no matter how long he holds out. Zip, the Lord is finished winking at such unreasonableness.
Paul and Victor
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Question
Thanks for your input. I will file this away for future use.
From: Leslie To: The Path of Truth Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 6:01 PM Subject: I like your thinking out of the box. In regards to good and evil, yes its true that God has provided both good and evil. But in understanding how this works we need to understand the omniscient nature of God. Logic would say that 1 Peter 1:20 prepares Christ as redeemer prior to the establishment of Adam and Eve , hence God new that there free choice would be to do evil. BUT just because God has the power to see into the future does not mean that He uses this in every situation. He is our father who respectfully gives us the privacy of choice and only intervenes when we are at our most critical stage of sinning. For example, God could read the hearts of those of Sodom YET, agreed with Abraham that should there be a few good hearts the city would be spared.Q; What would be the point if God new all were evil? Another point; When God created the spirit creatures known as gods or angels, ( Proverbs 8 21-32 ) they evolved ( not made ) through many dispensations of choosing right from wrong .Then eventually chose to do right. This process may have taken one million years having been procured by more than one pair of Gods creatures. But to God time it is irrelevant. Satan was one of many who went through this evolutionary process BUT decided to choose wrong and take a third of the angels with him.This was before Adam and Eve who were to be influenced by one of these fallen angels...
From: Warren To: The Path of Truth Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 1:11 PM Subject: Your beam I read got questions as with all writings of man,including yours,with caution,utilizing prayer and spiritual discernment, to determine truth from a lie. by the way, all of your suggested reading material is of man,and furthermore their writings most if not all, are referencing psuedo bi les such as esv,mkjv,nlt,nkjv,and so on, all of which are perversions of the true word of God.in short,before you complain about the splinter in gotquestions eye,consider the beam in yours.God bless. From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk To: Warren Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 6:58 AM Subject: Re: Your beam So we’ve got a Bibliolater here, of KJV variety. Read the following, Warren: Is the King James Authorized Version the Perfect Word of God? Answer to an Apologist for Worship of the KJV We’re not asking you to read because you’ll believe, but because you don’t believe. Even if you don’t read, you’ve come against the Lord here and are under judgment. Paul and Victor www.ThePathofTruth.com From: Warren To: Paul Cohen Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Your beam "Bibliolater" wow you managed to title me,catagorize me, as The kjv kind, and then put me under judgment all in one sentence.pretty impressive.believing in the writings of the kjv does not mean that one takes it all literally,GODs life giving truths are right there to be discov...
From: Ronnie Tanner To: Adam Sent: Sunday, June 26 1:43 PM Hi Adam, Welcome to the forum. We need your last name to activate your account. You can reply here and I'll update your username then you'll be all set. Ronnie From: Adam To: Ronnie Tanner Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 3:24 PM Hello Ronnie, My surname is XXXX. I am in great fear, because I have sinned against those I love, and as it is written, against God Almighty. I do perceive the utmost necessity to turn away from the shadows, though. I have been living there for far too long, and it is murdering me from the inside. Thank you for receiving me. From: Ronnie Tanner To: Adam Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:49 PM Hi Adam, It sounds like you know what you need to do. If you'd like to share more, you can do so here. I'm copying Paul Cohen, a brother and elder in the Lord. If you do reply, include him in your response. Some teachings you may or may not have red: Confession of Sin Repentence Obedience Diabolical Doctrine: Family Unity - A Hallmark of True Christianity Also, I've updated your username as "Adam " and activated your account on the forum. Ronnie From: Adam To: Ronnie Tanner and Paul Cohen Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2016 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Activate user account Greetings Ronnie & Paul, The things that I have stolen are rather petty, but I still feel the need to correct the wrongdoings. One problem, though, is that most of these things are s...