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The Truth Triumphs Over Cain’s Sacrifices

From: Ken
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 6:48 PM
Subject: Sabbath Chat Room

Hello, I thought I was entirely alone in this world believing that God created evil for his ultimate purposes. If I shared that with other believers they would call me crazy. But I knew deep down my logic was sound. Thank you for sharing the same beliefs I do.

I would like to be in the chat rooms with you on the Sabbath if possible. Thank you.

God bless.

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Ken
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 2:58 PM
Subject: Sabbath Chat Room

Hi there, 

If you register on the Forum (accessible from any page on our site), we’ll send you the links to instructions for joining the Sabbath chat. We look forward to meeting you and hearing more about your spiritual journey.  

Victor

From: Ken
To: Paul Cohen
Cc: Ronnie Tanner
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Sabbath Chat Room

ok I signed up for the forum under Ken.

From: Ken
To: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:10 AM
Subject: Praise Report

This is Ken, from a while back, I was throwing the BBQ’s in the name of the Lord and you guys told me it wasn’t right. I disagreed. Well, God has humbled me and shown that you guys were right. Thanks for being there for me and telling me the truth when I was blind to it.

God bless,

Ken

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Praise Report

Hi Ken,

Can you provide the correspondence where we instructed you? 

Thank you either way – we appreciate hearing back from you on what the Lord has done for you. 

Victor

From: Ken
To: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Praise Report

It was in sabbath chat a couple weeks ago

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 11:45 AM,
Subject: Re: Praise Report

Could you please copy that section from the transcript available on the Forum, in the Private Section under Sabbath Meetings, and send it to me?

Thank you,

Victor

From: Ken
To: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Praise Report

haha i don’t have it anymore, i was so angry with you guys i never wanted to speak with you ever again. But God showed me you guys were right. Just wanted to let you know.

God bless

From: Victor Hafichuk
To: Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2016 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: Praise Report

Hi Ken,

We found the conversation and posted it along with our recent correspondence with you in the Private section of the Forum (https://thepathoftruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1011&p=6379&e=6379). This way all who participated in the meeting could hear the followup about your change of mind. 

So where is your heart at with us and the Lord now? Do you see us as friends?

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful” (Proverbs 27:6 MKJV).

Victor

The follow transcript excerpt from the September 17, 2016 Sabbath meeting: https://thepathoftruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1011

Ken says:

Parents are christians, got divorced when I was 8, totally messed me up, I was a gang member in high school, stole cars, addicted to alcohol and cocaine for 10 years. Four years ago, while high on cocaine, I saw Jesus and four angels. They reached into my mind and body, ripped out all my addictions. I thought I was hallucinating. However, 1 week went by and I didn’t use, 1 month, 1 year, not even a single craving. 1 month after Jesus healed me I got into law school. I’m a college dropout, got F’s my whole life. All glory to God.

Ken says:

That’s the short version…

Ken says:

I hold after church bbq/lunch at my house for the church I used to attend on Sundays

Ken says:

I don’t attend anymore because the teachings follow mainstream theology, and I don’t wanna hear it, haha. I don’t wanna argue either, because that does the kingdom no good.

Ken says:

So I just feed em food, cause they’re my brothers and sisters and I still love them.

Ken says:

I started with $150 2 months ago. I said, “God if you want me to continue this, you gotta provide.” The bbq/lunch costs about $80-$100 a week. I have $250 now, from just people tithing. So I’m going to keep goin until the money runs out.

Ken says:

Doesn’t look like its gonna run out… more people are showing up and I just keep getting more money

Paul C. says:

So these people are tithing you for teaching them contrary to the church they belong to? 

Ken says:

As for learning about God’s word and a message, Holy Spirit guides me to learn what I need to learn.

Oneil R. says:

A rebel without 

Ken says:

I don’t even know if they’re tithing, they just stuff money in my pocket when i’m cooking

Paul C. says:

Okay, I just used the word you used to describe their giving. Are you teaching them contrary to their church? 

Ken says:

It’s complicated, yes and no, but ultimately no

Ken says:

People require different teachings at different times in their life

Ken says:

Dfferent people require different teachings

Ken says:

to be given at different times

Ken says:

I usually work on a one on one basis, not speaking to the masses

Victor H. says:

John 6:25-27 MKJV (25) And when they had found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, Rabbi, when did you come here? (26) Jesus answered them and said, Truly, truly, I say to you, You seek Me not because you saw the miracles, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. (27) Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for that food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you. For God the Father sealed Him. 

Ken says:

Yea, some definitely come for the food, haha

Ken says:

And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. – Matthew 4:19

Ken says:

Fishermen use bait

Ken says:

I use bbq

Ken says:

as bait

Ken says:

for men

Ken says:

=p

Paul C. says:

You aren’t following the Lord Jesus Christ, Ken. He didn’t and doesn’t do what you’re doing. 

Victor H. says:

Ken, when the Lord came, did He call you to repentance? What did you repent of, versus what were you healed and/or delivered of? 

Ken says:

Not here to argue with you guys

Ken says:

God is in control

Paul C. says:

He didn’t lure people out of the synagogues with weekly buffets to hook them on the truth, as you think to do. 

Ken says:

Sorry, didn’t mean it too seriously

Ken says:

Chat rooms don’t convey facial expressions or sarcasm

Paul C. says:

Yes, God is in control, and brought you here to hear the truth.

Ken says:

It’s more like Jesus eating with his disciples, our gathering 

Ken says:

Fellowship

Ken says:

The fishing thing was a joke

Ken says:

Using bbq as bait

Paul C. says:

You are entertaining tares, as one of them 

Dennison R. says:

I use to think that Ken, but consider that what you are conveying isn’t what the Lord would have you do, and He is exposing that to you… Hence why you are here. 

Paul C. says:

Jesus didn’t do that, Ken. 

Ken says:

Jesus didn’t do what?

Paul C. says:

Entertain tares as one of them 

Paul C. says:

He was and is separate from sinners.

Ken says:

What does, “entertain tares as one of them” mean? What does separate from sinners mean? Obviously Jesus was among sinners.

Tang W says:

I believe the Lord should have revealed it to you!

Ken says:

Nope

Ken says:

That’s why I’m asking

Dennison R. says:

How much of the site have you red, Ken? 

Ken says:

Just the God created evil part, and some parts here and there. I’m new

Ken says:

Is there an article about “entertain tares as one of them?”

Victor H. says:

Ken, when the Lord came, did He call you to repentance? What did you repent of, versus what were you healed and/or delivered of?

Victor H. says:

Could you all give Ken the opportunity to answer my questions? 

Ken says:

I repented of my pride, thinking I had control over my life.

Ken says:

That was earlier

Ken says:

But really, I repented for being me. A sinful creature unworthy of his mercy. (Even though He made me that way;))

Victor H. says:

Were there sins in particular that you ceased to commit by choice? Was there a price to pay to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Was there any restitution required of you…that sort of thing? 

Ken says:

Pride, thinking I had free will, the power to choose, believing I was intelligent.

Victor H. says:

Not to argue but to ask and test the spirits. 

Ken says:

Yea, the cocaine stopped immediately, not even a single craving. 

Ken says:

Been 4 years now

Ken says:

After smoking for 20 years, that stopped also a couple weeks later

Ken says:

Pre-marital sex stopped all together

Ken says:

Stopped lying

Ken says:

I mean, nobody’s ever asked me before to list specifics

Ken says:

My relationship with my parents totally changed

Ken says:

We’re a loving family unit now

Ken says:

Before I used to yell at my mom all the time

Victor H. says:

Your family now believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, Ken? 

Ken says:

All my friends left me

Ken says:

and I got new ones

Ken says:

My family were always Christian

Ken says:

I grew up in the church

Victor H. says:

And are their lives transformed, out of the world and into the Kingdom? 

Victor H. says:

So were you the cause of discord in your family, while they were true believers living for the Lord? 

Ken says:

Some more transformed than others.

Ken says:

I was the black sheep, yes.

Ken says:

My testimony has strengthened them also, they are very grateful to the Lord for what He has done for me in my life. 

Ken says:

My parents thought I was a lost cause

Victor H. says:

Sounds good, Ken 

Ken says:

Whew

Victor H. says:

I can’t argue with fruits and good results

Ken says:

I thought I was gonna be alone again

Michael D. says:

Ken says:

If you guys are ever in Los Angeles, please feel free to drop by

Ken says:

Sunday bbq =[

Victor H. says:

I see where there’s possible error but if you are His, that will all be ironed out; no rush, no fear. 

Victor H. says:

We’ve all had error; nothing unusual

Luan Cartwright says:

Amen, V 

Ken says:

That’s exactly what I think, Victor

Oneil R. says:

Condescending to say the least 

Ken says:

If there is something wrong with me, and there always will be, until the day I leave this earth, leave it to the Lord to fix.

Victor H. says:

? Oneil? 

Ken says:

It’s okay, people say that to me all the time.

Ken says:

I have no idea I’m doing it

Victor H. says:

Do you believe, Ken, that the Lord will use His servants to correct His saints?

Oneil R. says:

Just following the conversation

Ken says:

Please don’t take it the wrong way

Ken says:

I believe the Lord uses all things to correct His saints.

Victor H. says:

Including saints that correct saints? 

Ken says:

Yes, all.

Victor H. says:

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. (Ephesians 5:11 MKJV) 

Tang W says:

Amen 

Ken says:

What does “unfruitful works of darkness” mean?

Victor H. says:

2 Timothy 4:1-4 MKJV (1) Therefore I solemnly witness before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is going to judge the living and the dead according to His appearance and His kingdom, (2) preach the Word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. (3) For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. (4) And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths. 

Paul C. says:

Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:17-18) 

Victor H. says:

What do you think that phrase means or pertains to? I expect you would know it doesn’t just refer to things like dealing drugs, prostitution, and so forth? 

Victor H. says:

(“unfruitful works of darkness”) 

Ken says:

Works that are a disservice to the Lord.

Victor H. says:

Sacrifices unto the Lord with wrong motives? 

Victor H. says:

Sacrifice? 

Ken says:

Sacrifice wasn’t something I was thinking about

Oneil R. says:

I can’t help but think of Simon the magician as i follow this conversation V, but as the Lord did what He saw fit with Simon, so will He also do to all.

Ken says:

Just to clear up any confusion. We’re on what I think the phrase, “unfruitful works of darkness” means. I think it means any work that is a disservice to the Lord. Sacrifice did not cross my mind.

Victor H. says:

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts. And then shall each one have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:5 MKJV) 

Paul C. says:

So could that be your barbecue? 

Paul C. says:

(a work that is a disservice to the Lord) 

Victor H. says:

For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. (Luke 8:17 KJV) 

Ken says:

Ok, I get the point that the bbq is not something you guys want me to do. Bear with me, but if you wanna convince me you gotta use the word of God logically.

Ken says:

I’m open to discussion and if you can tell my why it’s a disservice please do

Victor H. says:

1 Corinthians 3:11-13 KJV (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (13) Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

Ken says:

and please explain why you are using the scripture, and why it pertains to my specific situation, that would help

Paul C. says:

Could it be a disservice to the Lord? 

Paul C. says:

You haven’t answered. 

Ken says:

Paul, I have no idea if it could be. Please let me know why you think it could be.

Paul C. says:

So you agree it could be a work of darkness.

Ken says:

No

Ken says:

I’m just saying that so you can tell me why you think it could be

Victor H. says:

Ok, fair enough, and why not, Ken? 

Ken says:

I’m not answering questions until you guys answer mine

Ken says:

I’ve answered up until now.

Ken says:

And you have not.

Victor H. says:

How would you have known Cain’s sacrifice was not of God?

Ken says:

Again… no answers to my questions.

Victor H. says:

Or Balaam’s?

Victor H. says:

I’m answering yours now

Ken says:

I think I’ve answered all of your questions, especially when asked to.

Victor H. says:

I’m giving you Scriptural examples of how what appears to be a godly sacrifice is not. 

Ken says:

You answered my question with a question. When I answer your questions with questions, you ask me to please answer the question.

Ken says:

I’m only doing what you do.

Victor H. says:

Cain’s sacrifice is an example of what appear to be good works and aren’t. 

Paul C. says:

You haven’t answered my question, Ken, that started this. Are you saying anyone can have church people over weekly, entertaining them as brothers and sisters in the Lord, and it couldn’t possibly be a work of delusion and darkness?

Victor H. says:

I’m answering you 

Ken says:

Thank you

Ken says:

Victor, that makes sense. 

Victor H. says:

So then is it not possible your kind of works could be not of God?

Ken says:

Yes, it is possible

Victor H. says:

Ok 

Ken says:

How did God tell Cain He was unsatisfied with his sacrifice?

Ken says:

Regardless, Cain knew God didn’t like the sacrifice, thus he slew Abel correct?

Ken says:

Brb guys, I gotta move to another location.

Paul C. says:

Ok, Ken. 

Paul C. says:

So you’ll be back? 

Michael D. says:

Whoa, “brb guys” seems a bit condescending! 

Joe V. says:

That was interesting. 

Ken says:

Hey ok! I’m back 

Ken says:

Sorry I had to move from the library into my classroom before I lost my seat 

Ken says:

Class starts in 30 minutes 

Ken says:

But it’s okay, I can still chat with you guys 

Ken says:

Ok so, God didn’t like Cain’s sacrifice, therefore it is possible that God doesn’t like my bbq as a sacrifice. 

Paul C. says:

You asked about how Cain knew this.

Paul C. says:

Cain had Abel’s example of faith, reward, and light to show him the difference.

Ken says:

Ok, cool 

Victor H. says:

Ken, you’ve come with a degree of irreverence/disrespect, if not some “casual contempt.” Not a put-down here, and such can be forgiven, but it is our observation. As several of us discuss your situation, we have come to unanimous consent that your works are not of God, as good and “charitable” as they may appear. 

Paul C. says:

You have been fellowshipping with the works of men, which are darkness.

Ken says:

I see 

Ken says:

I just need more than just, because you say so

Paul C. says:

You have no contrast – till now.

Victor H. says:

The Lord’s servants are not “guys,” for example. You really don’t know who you’re dealing with and it doesn’t seem to concern your casual stance in spirit. 

Ken says:

and I’m willing to listen to the reasons and scriptures you have to offer. 

Victor H. says:

Your fruits are not good. 

Ken says:

ic 

Ken says:

I guess I’m not good enough for you. 

Ken says:

That’s okay 

Ken says:

People have been telling me that my whole life

Paul C. says:

Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:17-18) 

Ken says:

I’m dirty 

Ken says:

and unworthy 

Paul C. says:

That is Cain’s speech.

Ken says:

I get it 

Victor H. says:

And we have given you Scripture, as what we’ve given you already. Why aren’t you receiving them? Is it because your “interpretation” is right and ours wrong? Could be! 

Victor H. says:

But do you know? 

Victor H. says:

Now we see you hanging your bottom lip or mocking; either case isn’t good. 

Victor H. says:

You “get it”? We don’t think so, and nobody is seeing you as you claim we are 

Paul C. says:

We’re not better than you – we can see and are telling you the truth. 

Victor H. says:

So why accuse us falsely? 

Victor H. says:

Is that good fruit? 

Ken says:

What did I accuse you of 

Victor H. says:

There need to be 2 or 3 witnesses as to whether or not a work is of darkness or not. There are now several witnesses here that your works aren’t acceptable to Him. 

Ken says:

Ok, so you guys say I’m darkness. I can’t change your opinion of me. 

Ken says:

I am me. 

Victor H. says:

We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6 MKJV) 

Ken says:

I don’t have good manners, I’m condescending, I’m disrespectful. 

Dennison R. says:

You sound like me 

Ken says:

I guess in your minds, I am not of God. 

Luan Cartwright says:

And me.. 

Victor H. says:

He who is of God hears God’s Words. Therefore you do not hear them because you are not of God. (John 8:47 MKJV) 

Paul C. says:

Do you care about our opinion, Ken, or the truth? 

Ken says:

Paul, yes I care about your opinion, that’s why I’ve been here all afternoon and haven’t left. 

Paul C. says:

Dennison came to us as you do here, about six years ago.

Dennison R. says:

At least how I use to sound. However you are completely wrong, it’s not an opinion. It’s the reality of your life. You are doing your own thing, and you haven’t bothered asking the Lord what He wants from you. 

Victor H. says:

Ken, is it only our opinion or could it just be that God is speaking to you by us now? 

Ken says:

Victor, its entirely possible that God is speaking through you to me. 

Oneil R. says:

In the dream where you saw Jesus did you relate as you are now relating to those who are His? Did you say to Him “I am me”? 

Ken says:

Oneil, when I saw Jesus I had no thoughts, only feelings of warmth and peace. 

Ken says:

Oneil, I wasn’t dreaming, I was awake. 

Dennison R. says:

That’s how Satan is, Ken. Warm and peace. 

Luan Cartwright says:

Amen, D 

Oneil R. says:

Thanks, D 

Ken says:

Ok, so Satan healed me 

Dennison R. says:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 

Dennison R. says:

Yup, Satan healed you, to destroy you. 

Victor H. says:

You might be amazed at what Satan can do. 

Luan Cartwright says:

No, he deceived you, but as you said, God is over evil 

Ken says:

So I saw satan, he healed me, then I gave my life to Jesus, started reading the bible and dedicated my life to God? 

Oneil R. says:

You see Ken you dedicated your life to Jesus, did he draw you to Himself? 

Ken says:

I could not have dedicated my life to Jesus unless he drew me 

Victor H. says:

“…I gave my life to Jesus, started reading the bible and dedicated my life to God?” 

Dennison R. says:

Ask John how he felt when he saw Jesus: Revelation 1:17 (KJV) 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 

Ken says:

Ok guys, you win, I’m darkness and satan. 

Victor H. says:

Weren’t you telling us God was doing and not you? I know that when the Lord took me, I could not refer to that experience as MY giving my life to the Lord or “dedicating my life to Him. That is the language of Cain and when God wasn’t good with that, Cain reacted exactly as you do at this moment. 

Paul C. says:

Yes, amen 

Tang W says:

Wow, amen 

Tang W says:

I’m in awe of You, Lord 

Victor H. says:

Ken, you aren’t being sober and sincere now, only sarcastic.

Oneil R. says:

Proverbs 16:18New International Version (NIV) 18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. 

Victor H. says:

We aren’t being that way with you; leastwise, I’m not. 

Luan Cartwright says:

Amen, Oneil 

Dennison R. says:

Isaiah 6:5 (KJV) 5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. 

Victor H. says:

Ken, there’s only one thing Satan can’t or won’t do. Do you know what that is? 

Ken says:

Disobey God 

Dennison R. says:

Didn’t seem like Isaiah felt warm or fuzzy? or peace. 

Victor H. says:

He can heal and deliver one from drugs and change one’s mind 

Victor H. says:

He CAN disobey God, Ken 

Victor H. says:

But what is it he can’t or won’t do? 

Dennison R. says:

2 Corinthians 11 (KJV) 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Victor H. says:

Do you know? 

Ken says:

Are you saying God is unable to stop satan? 

Victor H. says:

Not at all 

Ken says:

Then when satan disobey’s God, God allows satan to disobey Him?

Victor H. says:

I’m asking you what Satan can’t or won’t do? Do you know what it is?

Ken says:

I have no idea, please tell me.

Victor H. says:

Satan, to my knowledge, hasn’t been in disobedience to God 

Ken says:

I agree. 

Victor H. says:

But you can disobey the Lord 

Ken says:

If I can, He allows me to.

Victor H. says:

Here’s what Satan CAN’T do. He cannot, will not, take up the cross

Tang W says:

Amen 

Dennison R. says:

You’re putting the onus on the Lord, Ken. 

Luan Cartwright says:

Amen 

Dennison R. says:

What will you do when the Lord says to you “Go and sin no more”? 

Victor H. says:

You, by saying what you just said, demonstrate that you absolve yourself of having to say, “Father, not my will but Yours.” 

Ken says:

Dennison, I would reply, I was born into sin, that’s impossible for me. 

Victor H. says:

Not true, Ken 

Victor H. says:

You chose to eat of the Tree of Knowledge against God’s command.

Dennison R. says:

So you’re calling Jesus a liar? 

Victor H. says:

Thus, you died, as He said you would. But now you follow Satan who said to Eve, “You won’t die!’ 

Ken says:

Victor, if I had any power to save myself with choice, Jesus would not have had to come. 

Ken says:

Dennison, no I am not calling Jesus a liar. 

Victor H. says:

Jesus Christ is Lord of all! 

Dennison R. says:

Of course you have. Because Jesus has called men unto repentance, to take up their cross and follow Him. So if you don’t believe you can do that, then you are calling Him liar. 

Oneil R. says:

Amen, D 

Victor H. says:

He is risen from the dead and calls us to repentance, as per the four Gospels and truly, everywhere else, by both prophets and apostles and all servants of the Lord. 

Tang W says:

Amen 

Paul C. says:

You deny Jesus Christ, Ken, and call Him a liar, because He said, “Strive to enter in at the narrow gate. For I say to you, many will seek to enter in and shall not be able” (Luke 13:24). 

Oneil R. says:

Yes 

Ken says:

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. -John 6:44 

Victor H. says:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20 KJV) 

Ken says:

Not my choice 

Victor H. says:

Amen, Ken; all is by God’s grace, truly, but He lays on us the responsibility of acting on the measure of grace He gives, hence, choice. 

Paul C. says:

We’re not saying it’s our choice – we’re saying it’s His Commandment, and our obligation to believe and obey Him. 

Victor H. says:

And we can go in circles on this, no doubt; as is common. 

Victor H. says:

But I must say that your fruits tell me Jesus Christ is nowhere with you 

Ken says:

Paul, Victor, I agree. 

Paul C. says:

He started it by speaking the Word, yes, by becoming the Word made flesh and laying His life down in order for us to do the same, by Him. 

Victor H. says:

You don’t know you’re dealing with Him, you will argue that we don’t know that, and you will say it’s opinion against opinion. We can’t convince you and it would be foolish to try. 

Victor H. says:

It’s not the Lord’s way. 

Ken says:

I agree. 

Dennison R. says:

What is it that you are agreeing with, Ken?

Ken says:

That arguing is not the Lord’s way. 

Dennison R. says:

That’s all? 

Ken says:

What else do you mean?

Ken says:

I was just responding to Victor. 

Dennison R. says:

I’m asking what you agree with, Ken. 

Ken says:

I’m not saying you can’t jump in either. All I’m saying is I was agreeing with what Victor was saying. 

Dennison R. says:

What of it? What exactly do you agree with. Be specific. 

Oneil R. says:

Can I ask say something? 

Victor H. says:

I think we need to close now, unless someone else has something of concern/importance yet, but we’ve been here 5 hours and we have a gathering here we need to attend to today. 

Ken says:

I will argue this, you will argue that, it’s opinion against opinion.

Victor H. says:

Go ahead, O? 

Victor H. says:

No, Ken. 

Victor H. says:

Oneil? 

Ken says:

I was just answering Dennison’s question. 

Ken says:

Sorry. 

Oneil R. says:

What exactly do you expect from the Lord and what will you do if and when you receive it? 

Ken says:

I don’t expect anything from our Lord and I will receive whatever He gives me. 

Ken says:

I do believe He will keep His word, but I wouldn’t call it “expect” 

Ken says:

as like demand 

Javier R says:

Matthew 7:15-20New International Version – UK (NIVUK) True and false prophets 15 ‘Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them. 

Dennison R. says:

Ken, by experience, I can tell you that if you continue to hold on to your opinion, the Lord will only prove to you how unworthy you truly are, as He did with me. May the Lord do what He must with you. 

Tang W says:

Yes, J, Amen

Victor H. says:

“I will receive whatever He gives me.” Could it be that today you are proving otherwise, at least for now? 

Oneil R. says:

You have been given a whole lot today, Ken

Paul C. says:

Yes, V and O 

Paul C. says:

The Jews were given much when the Lord appeared, but did they receive Him? 

Ken says:

I entirely think it’s possible that you are telling me what God wants to tell me. I am still cautious of whether or not you are the voice of God. 

Victor H. says:

We all need to go now, I believe… 

Paul C. says:

He came to His own, and His own received Him not. (John 1:11)

Victor H. says:

The Lord will sort all this out; no problem, and we will know the results, His judgment. 

Ken says:

Amen. 

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