NOTICE TO THE READERSHIP: We do not usually post entire e-mail headers.
However in this case, because the information is relevant to the situation,
we are including them.
Put on your thinking caps, as the clues to the identities
of the two “Lisa Nunleys” presented to us require some
scrutiny to perceive the truth of the charade being played by the one
behind the facades.
Lisa first wrote to us on Carla Rolfe’s blog HERE, which set
the stage for what was to follow. Immediately afterwards we received
our first email note from Lisa Nunley @ gmail to Ingrid Benson as follows:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:03 PM
Subject: praying for you
I read your testimony. It breaks my heart to think that you justify
leaving behind your 3 children to follow Victor Hafichuk, a self-appointed
prophet. Your parents are right in that you are in a cult.
Ingrid’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
To: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
Why, thank you for your concern, Lisa. Now, where did you get the
notion that I left behind my 3 children to follow Victor Hafichuk?
I did no such thing. Before you start making such assumptions, it would
be wise of you to get the facts, don’t you think, especially
if you call yourself a Christian?
And have you any proof that Victor is a self-appointed prophet? It
sounds to me like you are appointing yourself as some kind of spiritual
authority or prophetess, especially when you expect me to simply take
your word for it without giving me anything for evidence. Correct me
if I am missing something, but all I see here is opinion, unless I
do not understand what opinion is.
Consider that you have heard or seen nothing of my parents, yet you
have judged me wrong and my parents right. My parents are Catholic,
took my children from me, perjured themselves in court, made groundless
charges against me, assaulted my children, and you say they are right.
Excuse me, Lisa, but if you are “going to heaven,” I
dearly hope things change in terms of admission standards there because
I, for one, would rather go to Hell where decent people go (assuming
Hell is the opposite of your Heaven), if Heaven is how you describe
it by your judgments and prophetic utterance (things spoken without
evidence).
How can you make this argument and at the same time claim to believe
in God Who sacrificed His only Son or be a daughter of Abraham who
offered his son? I am by no means comparing myself to God or Abraham’s
sacrifice, but if God has done such things Himself and has required
them, what He required of me is not contrary to His character, is it,
Lisa?
Explain to me why, as long as I stayed at my parents’ place,
trying to regain custody, I was slowly but surely being destroyed because
I was delaying what the Lord had commanded, as He had warned me would
happen. On the contrary, since I have obeyed the Lord in what He was
requiring, He has blessed and healed me in many ways. Do you think
that if I was so off the deep end doing such a thing in His name that
He had not required He would not hold me accountable?
The Lord did say that He came to bring a sword, and, through those
circumstances, He did just that between my faith and the Catholic unbelief
of my parents. He is also the One Who gave them the custody of my children.
Can you show me, based on Scriptures and not your opinion, that what
happened was not according to the Lord’s leading, that it was
not what He was requiring of me?
Ingrid
Lisa’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
You are a very hateful person... and yet you proclaim Christ. Children
are a blessing from God and yet you had yours taken from you because
you follow a false prophet. You are missing out on this blessing because
you are blinded by your self-righteous, holier than thou attitude.
Such consequences are the result of following a man who proclaims to
know God but by his deeds he denies God and is detestable and disobedient
and worthless for any good deed... unless there is true repentance.
Of which, how could there be unless the Lord shows Himself according
to His Word of truth and not the misrepresented and twisted version
of that which you follow.
My heart-felt prayers will continue to be with you and especially
those dear children that you were to raise in the fear and admonition
of the Lord.
Ingrid’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
To: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
No, Lisa, the false prophet is the one who speaks contrary to the
counsel of God and cannot give a second or third witness to her opinion.
I even asked you to show me, which I should not have to do. You should
know better than to condemn things contrary to the ways of God that
are found in the Scriptures you claim to believe. But “claim” is
all you have, because you obviously do not believe His Word. Therefore
it is you who is false and also hateful, because you condemn the true
without just cause.
Why do you hate me for asking you legitimate questions? Why do you
overlook and ignore the circumstances I described to you? What is your
reason to tell me I am a hateful person? Can you show me how and when
I was so? Do you find it hateful simply when someone disagrees with
you? How have I shown myself superior to you, except in knowledge of
things that I readily shared with you? You are not making any sense
here, which is what your hatred has done to you. What do you think
you are teaching your children, in your hatred of God’s ways
and His righteousness? For, since I certainly have none, and have not
claimed any, it is His righteousness you condemn.
Condemn me all you want, Lisa. Like I said, give me substance,
not your opinions. Your opinions are worth far less than you think. Any
rational person without bias reading your reply would have to conclude
you are quite unbalanced, having very strong unresolved personal issues.
Your countenance in the video testimonial on your blog shows a fretful,
troubled and selfish person. Your husband appears as milquetoast. You
say he is your hero, but slave is more appropriate. When he demonstrated
his complete devotion to you no matter how cold, hard, and uncaring
you showed yourself to be, you finally conceded to acknowledge his
worship of you. This you called repentance from selfishness, which
obviously it is not.
If your husband had anything going for him in Christ, he certainly
would not approve of your behaviour here, condemning a woman that lost
her children to the Catholic Church and governmental powers according
to the will of God. He would see your hardheartedness and would be
able to guide you in truth, not allowing your sickness to dictate reality,
at least for him if not you. But he cannot do that because he is not
there for truth either, but for what he wants. He wanted you and his
children, and he got you, which has made him complicit in becoming
your slave and reinforcing you selfishness. You have emasculated him.
In your marriage video, both your countenances display what I express
here to you.
The most sad and tragic part is that you people do all of this in
the Name of Christ, Who is grieved to see you destroy yourselves while
you refuse honest conversation that could lead you out of your error.
Ingrid
Lisa’s reply #1:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
I do not own a blog and have no idea who you are talking about but
obviously you are clueless. I am married with 3 girls of my own with
a husband that I have been married to for 24 years.
How sad your life must be to make excuses in the name of Christ for
what you have done.
Lisa’s reply #2:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
I just googled “Lisa blog marriage video” then clicked
on “contact”. Now I know why you think I must be that Lisa.
Her e-mail is similar to mine. Perhaps you need to go ask your prophet
what went wrong here and then go back to Belgium and raise your kids
instead of run around with a bunch of fruitcakes.
Ingrid’s letter to Lisa @ gmail, sent to Lisa @ hotmail,
the address of the “real” Lisa Nunley:
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
To: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
Well, Lisa, this is the most remarkable of coincidences. Not only
are your email addresses very similar, but there is more. We have been
involved in a conversation on a blog with a Lisa Nunley during the
same week that you have written me, and she and her friends were telling
us very similar things, sometimes word for word, as you can see below
in an excerpt from the conversation we and others had with her:
Jen: That’s interesting, Lisa, that many of the proverbs
go against scripture. I didn’t even read the ‘proverbs’ page,
and really paid little attention to the ones posted here.
However, I was drawn immediately to the ‘marks of a cult’ page
because I’ve seen this type of thing before -- relatively small,
virtually unknown group feels the need to explain to the world what
a cult *really* is. This usually means they’ve been accused of
being one. Victor’s cult page basically points out that everyone
but them is in a cult.
I read only two of the testimonies on Victor’s site, and both
sounded like textbook cases of people ensnared in a cult. Here’s
a short excerpt from Ingrid Benson’s testimony:
...Later that day, I was told that the Courts
had given custody of the children to my parents and had forbidden
me to leave Belgium with
them. I was afraid and got rid of all of Victor’s writings that
I had with me in the garbage of the washrooms of the airport. In so
doing, I was denying the Lord before men to protect myself. It is written:
“But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny
before My Father which is in Heaven” (Matthew 10:33).
So the Lord also denied me.
My heart aches for these people, who place their trust in a man instead
of the one true God. Apparently, they elevate Victor to godlike status.
They truly need the Lord.
jen elslager | Homepage | 03.29.08 - 2:05 pm | #
________________________________________ Lisa: *shudder*
...and apparently he elevates himself to this status as well, as he
claims to know the hearts of men enough to be able to pinpoint who
is and is not a genuine believer.
Lisa Nunley | Homepage | 03.29.08 - 3:48 pm | #
Later on during that conversation, Lisa also said to Victor:
“You are not God, you are a self-appointed
prophet and you do not have the power to know the hearts of those
who do belong to God.”
So, as you can see, there was more than just a similar email address
to cause this mix-up, for which I apologize. I would be interested
in hearing how you came across our website and my testimony in particular.
Now, Lisa, the letters I wrote, except for the reference to the blog
(which would be good for you to consider anyway), were replies to the
letters you wrote me and all the questions I asked you are still valid
and yet remain unanswered. So far, you have not provided me with any
substance, only your opinions, based on your emotions, righteousness
and understanding.
Here I am, supposedly the one deceived and in error, a “fruitcake,” and
yet I am the one trying to have a reasonable conversation with you,
asking legitimate questions whereas all you can do is call me names
(by the way, I love fruitcake), mock, accuse me falsely and without
substance, or throw blanket statements at me, when you are claiming
to be “in the right path.” I have to tell you that your
example alone does not make me want to consider what you have to say,
not that there is anything for me to consider since your arguments
are unsubstantiated at best.
Let’s hear what you can tell me now.
Ingrid
Reply from Lisa (the “real” one):
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: praying for you
I have scrolled down and read everything written here and am rather
flabbergasted that this is happening again. We have a young lady that
we have been ministering to that does have 3 girls and her husband
of 24 years died 2 years ago. Very challenging and heart-breaking situation.
This coming to light is perhaps confirmation in what we have suspected
is going on again... though I really did not want it to be so. She
has sent e-mails in my name and even posted comments in my name on
other occasions and has even tried to write checks in my name. I really
thought she was doing better. I have no idea what to say to you but
my sincere apologies are with you. Please pray that we will handle
this situation wisely. I will encourage her to write a note of apology,
however, when she is caught she usually runs. It was rather difficult
to read what you wrote about my husband and I’s marriage testimony.
I am thinking it was Kristi’s hateful words that may have understandably
set you off, but please know that my husband is a godly man that is
the head of our home. The Lord has truly transformed my life by His
grace alone.
I am sad to think of what has happened with your dear children. That
must be so painful for you.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Ingrid’s reply to Lisa (the “real” one):
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
To: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: praying for you
Greetings, Lisa.
Thank you for replying and letting me know what is happening here.
As a result of the circumstances through which I came to be in touch
with you, I never introduced myself to you. As you probably have gathered
from the last letter you received, my name is Ingrid Benson. To get
a little background, you can read the story of what the Lord has done
in my life at Ingrid Benson; it is the testimony that the person who
wrote me in your name found fault with. If you will, tell me what you
see there.
I had a few questions regarding the note you sent me. Are you saying
that the person who was writing posts on Carla Rolfe’s blog was
not you? If you are saying that you are not this person, please read
the attachments I have included (Carla’s blog #1 & Carla’s
blog #2), with the two threads in which our conversation is recorded
(Carla has removed most of these posts from her blog) and let me know
what you think. If you did not post these comments, then people familiar
with you, like Jen and Carla, were engaged in a conversation in which
another woman impersonated you and they could not tell the difference.
Are you in agreement with their words and attitudes, and those of
this other “Lisa Nunley”? For example, when Carla decided
to remove our postings from her blog, “Lisa Nunley” commented: “ Very
wise decision.” What is your stand on this?
If that was not you, do you think they should know the truth about
what has really happened, and that you were being impersonated?
I would not have written you about what I saw on your video had “you” not
been in touch with me, but I did not write it biased by anger. Rather,
it was a hand stretched out to you, wanting to see you free, Lord
willing, if you are given to receive it, as hard what I say might
sound to you. The things I described are there, though hidden to
you and your husband. Read The
Vashti-Esther Transmutation. The only
way I can say these things to you is because the Lord has done them
for me.
Ingrid
Lisa’s blow off attempt #1:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:58 AM
Subject: RE: praying for you
I do not want you to think that I am ignoring you. However, right
now I do not have time for this as I am trying to focus on being a
helpmeet to my husband and a mother to my 6 children. I barely have
time to write on my blog and send e-mails back and forth. Please know
that I will get back to you when the intensity of the school year settles
down.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Lisa’s blow off attempt #2:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: praying for you
In the meantime, perhaps you can read Questions
for a Godly Wife.
It will reveal to you my pursuit of holiness in the role of being a
godly wife to my husband, who is also, by the grace of God, my brother
in Christ.
Hi Lisa, Paul Cohen here, brother in Christ to Ingrid Benson, and
one of those sent by the Lord to speak to Carla Rolfe and her fellow
bloggers.
We are not asking for you to take any time away from your children
on our behalf. We do, however, have an issue to deal with that you
need to know about, which I also think you would appreciate being informed
of because it affects you.
Carla and her peers are not aware that you did not actually post the
mocking and accusatory words attributed to you on her blog. We will
be informing as many there as we can that they have been finding solace
and pleasure in the words of an impersonator - a liar and a thief.
I will include you in that mailing.
I also have some things that could be of help to say to you with regards
to your letters to Ingrid. Whether they can help you now will be up
to you, according to how you react as given by God.
As you write in one paper:
“We must love the truth, even when it
smites us. Let us not allow truth telling to be stifled based on
blind loyalty. Let us come
prepared to meet the One who declared Himself to be the way, the truth,
and the life.”
The Lord Jesus Christ is with us in what we are saying to you, Lisa.
I announce this to you, not to vaunt ourselves, but, as Paul the apostle
prefaced his letters, to let you know we do not come or speak in our
own names.
Your reaction to this matter thus far only proves what Ingrid wrote
to you about what we all witnessed in your marriage testimonial (she
did not speak only for herself). You tell us you do not have time to
deal with this matter of mistaken identity and the damage it causes,
but what about your husband? You say he is the head that is ruling
your household, but we do not see this in your handling of this matter.
We see you deciding, and unwisely.
We did not intend to hurt you by our report, as you surmised, but
spoke the truth. You said Ingrid’s words were difficult to hear.
If there was nothing to them, there would be no difficulty of the kind
you experienced. It is the truth that wounds:
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy
are deceitful” (Proverbs 27:6 MKJV).
I red over your paper “Questions for a Godly Wife.” I
am not writing in disagreement with godly principles of order and life.
Many things you say are true; the problem is that you are teaching
a form of godliness that is dependent on the power of the carnal person
to attain it. It is all self-righteousness. One may even achieve the
desired form, but will be twice the child of Hell. This is the way
of the Pharisees.
What you are teaching is the “nice and pious” way for
a woman to form and control her husband. It was to this religion you
were converted and to which you gave testimony in your video. “You
can catch more flies, ladies, with honey, rather than with vinegar.
Make your husband your hero rather than your whipping boy.” True!
And Baal (hero) worship is never for the sake of the hero, but for
the worshipper.
The truth is, ladies, you cannot turn flies into butterflies. You
cannot transform your men into men of God. You only make them into
men of your image of God, which is conformed to your thoughts of Him.
They follow you, not God. That is the truth, which, as Ingrid told
you, we have learned by revelation and experience of reality.
Just as we received your writing we were gathered in the Lord and
heard firsthand a testimony directly in contradiction to your premises,
wherein a husband was formed in Christ by a wife that was given by
God to oppose him. No, she was not right, but this circumstance came
about from God to free both of them from the wrongness that not only
they, but all men and women have suffered in, since Adam followed his
wife rather than God. You and your husband are by no means unique.
The problem for the religious is in covering over the reality with
a substitutionary work for which only the cross will suffice.
I will give you an example of how the counsel you give is emblematic
of the self-righteousness you are walking in and teaching others. You
write:
“5. Are you remembering and keeping your
wedding vows, which you took before God, your husband, and the assembled
witnesses (Ecclesiastes
5:4, 5; Num. 30:2-5; Ps. 15:4b; 50:14; 76:11; Prov. 20:25; contrast
Prov. 2:17)? Whether the classic vows to love, honor and obey, or a
self-written vow, the vows are binding in God’s eyes as long
as you are married. Each day of the week, each moment of the day, you
are either working to fulfill those vows, or you are breaking your
commitment to them. Failure to keep the vows must be remedied by repentance,
not excuses.”
But Jesus said not to make vows:
“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘Never
break your oath, but give to the Lord what you swore in an oath to
give Him.’ But I tell you don’t swear an oath at all. Don’t
swear an oath by Heaven, which is God’s throne, or by the earth,
which is His footstool, or by Jerusalem, which is the city of the great
King. And don’t swear an oath by your head. After all, you cannot
make one hair black or white. Simply say yes or no. Anything more than
that comes from the evil one” (Matthew 5:33-37 GW).
“Comes from the evil one.” The evil one does not come
with horns and a pitchfork, but as an angel of light, very pious and
religiously acceptable to men by his “good” works. That
is how he snares so many in their own righteousness. This is also why
the Lord steers those that believe on Him away from snaring themselves
by the words of their mouths.
Your advice follows the formulaic, legalistic ways of men that always
condemn the faith of the saints. For example, Abigail was a dismal
failure, by your standards, with her husband Nabal, yet we know that
she was a woman of faith that had true humility. She said to David:
“Let your handmaid be a servant to wash the feet of the servants
of my lord.”
Wisdom is justified of all her children.
Lisa, these things are not spoken in hatred, contempt, or condemnation.
Blessed are you if you know that. It is the kisses of the enemy that
destroy you, not the honest words of the faithful:
“He who walks with the wise shall be wise, but a companion with
fools shall be destroyed” (Proverbs 13:20 MKJV)
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Paul
Cohen
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:11 PM
Subject: RE: Important Matters
Before God, my Lord and King, my Saviour, Jesus Christ and the guidance
of the Holy Spirit, as well as the wise counsel of my godly husband
I will kindly say that I have handled the matter as it should be handled.
My husband is a godly man and your accusations are Biblically unfounded.
Please do not contact me further.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Sent from Paul to all addresses involved with Carla Rolfe’s
blog:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: kncrolfe@...com
Cc: kristina@...com ; joythruChrist@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
; dvandelaar@...com ; rstark@...com ; JLof@...com ; Lisa
Nunley ; Lisa
Nunley ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:23 PM
Subject: Imposters All
Carla, Jen, Kristina, Rebecca, Daniel, Joyce, and to others posting
on Carla’s blog,
It has come to our attention that the postings from Lisa Nunley in
the threads mentioned above are actually from someone posing as her.
According to the real Lisa, with whom we have been in touch, this has
happened before:
“I have scrolled down and read everything
written here and am rather flabbergasted that this is happening again.
We have a young
lady that we have been ministering to that does have 3 girls and her
husband of 24 years died 2 years ago. Very challenging and heart-breaking
situation. This coming to light is perhaps confirmation in what we
have suspected is going on again... though I really did not want it
to be so. She has sent e-mails in my name and even posted comments
in my name on other occasions and has even tried to write checks in
my name. I really thought she was doing better....”
In other words, you have been encouraged by a lying thief in your
wicked stances of ridicule and mockery. And how is it you so easily
fellowship with such? Because you are no different.
This comes as no surprise at all, as the fruit does not fall far from
the tree.
“Show me whom you follow, and I will know
what manner of person you are or will become. If you do not know
whom you are following,
don’t you think it is time to find out how and where you are
being led? Do you think you will altogether escape the consequences
because ignorant? Think again. You already suffer them.
John Calvin was one of the most vicious of wolves
ever to pose as a lamb of God. His supremely self-righteous spirit
lives on in those
who lionize and follow him, even unbeknownst to themselves. Truly, ‘that
which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.’”
If you follow a lying murderer, why should anyone be surprised to
discover lying thieves in your midst, at one with you while you glory
in scorn, careless words and irresponsible answers?
God alone knows the motives of the heart. (Psalm 44:21; Luke 16:15;
Acts 15:8; Romans 8:27)
Beware of those who make claims to know the hearts of men. What is
so wrong with illegitimate law-givers is that they claim to know that
someone is sinning when they are not. They claim to know the motives
or intent of one’s heart and cannot. They may even claim that
God has given them the authority to know who is and is not a genuine
Christian. Yes, we can judge what is true or false, sinful or righteous,
based on what has been revealed in Scripture.
But what we cannot judge is:
Degrees of personal godliness
Matters that fall under God-given Christian liberty (Romans 14:1-4)
Motives
Just because someone proclaims to get their doctrine from the Bible,
does not make it so. Just because someone proclaims what they are preaching
is Biblical, does not make it so. That is why we are to test everything
and hold only to what is good. Again, beware of those who make
claims to know the hearts of men.
These false teachers proclaim a message that comes from themselves.
It does not come from the whole counsel of God. It may have the initial
appearance of the Truth and yet it cannot stand up in the light of
the whole counsel of God.
We must continually look to our Lord and God Jesus Christ and to His
Spirit so that those raging wolves that try to bear figs from thistles
can be recognized. (Mt. 7:15, 16) They will even claim the same Scriptures
about false teachers to scare you into their distorted path. There
is only One Way, only One Truth and only One Life. No more. No less.
And that path is not paved by wolves clothed in sheep skin.
They have set themselves up to rule in the place of Christ.
They claim humility, yet they are prideful and arrogant, distributing
grace and
unrighteous judgement as they assume on themselves all the power and
authority of God. In fact, they have fallen away from Christ and from
all spiritual discernment. They have created a heavy yoke and led many
into a pitiful and blind state of confusion. They become blind followers
of the doctrine of demons that Paul talks about in I Timothy 4.
May the Almighty Lord give His children a genuinely teachable
and humble spirit, that we might diligently pray for wisdom and guidance,
giving all honor to His Son Jesus Christ. May He keep us from these
ravenous wolves as He imparts through His Word of Truth what we are
to know and live out as we are trained in righteousness so that we
may persevere, be encouraged, justly convicted, sincerely repentant
and kept from false accusers and false teachers clothed in deception
that defiles Christ’s precious Name.
Press on in HIS truth and HIS love for HIS glory
UPDATE: A friend wrote: “What I really
can’t understand
is why these people bother with what they are doing. If they truly
cared about us and believed that we were deluded, wouldn’t they
warn us with tears, as [the Apostle] Paul did, instead of with barbed
tongues, full of hateful insults and false accusations?”
BEWARE: These are real people going around to ministry
websites and Christian blogs claiming to know who is and is not a true believer
as they hurl unfounded insults and false accusations. I have gotten
several e-mails from them. I have tried to graciously reply and they
have taken my replies and twisted my words as they have twisted the
Word of God to fit their agenda. That is what brings tears... what
they have done to God’s Holy Word as they hurl venomous insults
in the name of Christ. My sincere hope is that the Lord will convict
their hearts and that they will repent and turn to Christ in Truth.
Posted by Lisa on April 08, 2008
COMMENTS
Amen.
Posted by: jen elslager | April 8, 2008 01:55 PM
Is what you say in accordance with God?
A person who isn’t spiritual doesn’t accept the teachings
of God’s Spirit. He thinks they’re nonsense. He can’t
understand them because a person must be spiritual to evaluate them.
Spiritual people evaluate everything but are subject to no one’s
evaluation. “Who has known the mind of the Lord so that he can
teach him?” However, we have the mind of Christ. (1 Corinthians
2:14-16 GW)
Posted by: Victor Hafichuk | April 8, 2008 03:25 PM
You have once again distorted Scripture. Scripture does not
go against itself. Having the mind of Christ does not mean
we have
the power
to see into and righteously judge the hearts of men. According
to God’s
HOLY WORD, only God has that power. Not Victor.
Ex Animo
Posted by: Lisa Nunley | April 8, 2008 03:30 PM
It is not
I who pervert Scripture but you. As it is written:
Spiritual people evaluate EVERYTHING...
Why do you think you are ill, Lisa?
“And he said, If you will carefully listen to the voice of Jehovah
your God, and will do that which is right in His sight, and will give
ear to His commandments, and keep all His Laws, I will put none of
these diseases upon you, which I have brought upon the Egyptians; for
I am Jehovah who heals you” (Exodus 15:26 MKJV).
And: “The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and
to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they
might have it more abundantly” (John 10:10 MKJV).
Posted by: Victor
Hafichuk | April 8, 2008 05:59 PM
Once again victor,
you expose your propensity for warping Scripture and taking it out
of context.
Let me just make your unfounded and unbiblical accusation that is
based on a twisted interpretation of Scripture clear. According to
Victor, if I would obey God then I will be healed of multiple sclerosis
even though this is not one of the diseases brought upon the Egyptians...
and I am not an Israelite once enslaved by the Egyptians?
Your warped interpretation does not measure up to the whole counsel
of God once again Victor...
Ex Animo as I live an abundant life by the grace of God, whether in
comfort or in affliction, through my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Lisa
Posted by: Lisa Nunley | April 8, 2008 09:51 PM
Victor,
you really need to step back from all this. You’re
pushing it way too far.
Scripture is full of stories of people who’ve had physical illnesses
-- people very close to God (such as Job and Paul) and people not close
to God. Illness is not necessarily an indicator of one’s spiritual
condition -- it’s only an indicator of the human race’s
fallen condition in general.
God has used Lisa to minister to many people through this blog. I
can’t speak for her, but I wonder if her illness has given her
a different perspective on certain things, and unique opportunities
for ministry. I have Crohn’s disease, and that has been my experience.
It is extremely sad that you are stooping so low. You remain in my
prayers.
Posted by: jen elslager | April 8, 2008 10:15 PM
I am encouraged once
again by the gracious words of truth you present. Praying for you.
Posted by: ukrainiac | April 9, 2008 05:13 AM
“It is not I who
pervert Scripture but you.”
That’s just a statement of pride. There’s no love here
my friend.
Lisa is a wonderful sister in Christ. She loves Christ and His Word.
You need to repent, and come to the Cross of Christ. This is where
God humbles the proud heart.
The Cross is wondrous, and when beheld by a genuine heart after Jesus
Christ, then this heart will desire to pour contempt on all it’s
pride, and that’s a daily duty for me.
However, I have grown in the knowledge and grace of Jesus Christ,
and continue to be conformed into His image, by His grace and power,
through the Holy Spirit.
Good heads up post Lisa. Thanks.
Keep on.
Posted by: donsands | April 9, 2008 08:36 AM
Jen, Ukrainiac and Donsands,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. Yes, Jen, you are right
in what you say about what the Lord has taught me through the MS. ...not
my will, but Thine, O Lord be done...
One of the accusations hurled at my husband and I from this group
is that our marriage testimony video emasculates my husband and presents
him as my slave. I asked my 2 teen boys what they thought about daddy
being my slave according to these accusations. Their response without
prompting was an immediate and sincere testimony that their dad is
definitely the head of our home, that their dad is a godly man and
that I, as his wife, display a high degree of appropriate respect for
their dad. Interesting... and our children live with us day in and
day out. Hearing them defend their father was very humbling and sweet.
They were dumbfounded that someone would even think that way.
These false accusors also say that since I call my husband my hero,
I have placed him above Christ and have made him an idol. No. My husband
is a living example of Christ to me. He is not an idol. He is a man
after God’s own heart and to God alone be all the glory.
Posted
by: Lisa Nunley | April 9, 2008 09:57 AM
Here is what I see here: “Such
is the way of an adulterous woman; she eats, and wipes her mouth,
and says, I have done no
evil” (Proverbs
30:20 MKJV).
This verse keeps coming to mind when I look at the whole situation
and how you ladies act.
Lisa, I understand from reading this posting on your blog and the
private correspondence you have sent me that you believe I am deceived,
one of those “blind followers,” and that you consider yourself
to be on the “right path.” That would make you an example
that could be followed by someone like me in need to come out of what
you call “deception.” However, what I have observed, your
example and the way you are conducting yourself, is precisely what
the Lord, in His mercy, has delivered me from. Why would I want to
go back to it? If I were to do such a thing, it would be like a dog
returning to its vomit, wouldn’t it? Simply put, you are suggesting
that I go from being “deceived” to being a deceiver, which
is what you are, as exemplified in this whole situation. Thanks but
no thanks. By the grace of God, I will gladly and thankfully choose
to remain “deceived.”
Do you think that you need to apologize for the way you have lied
in pretending that it was not you writing me, but someone else impersonating
you? Or are you going to walk away, wiping your mouth and saying you
have done no wickedness?
Ingrid
Posted by: Ingrid Benson | April 9, 2008 02:52 PM
Ingrid,
You are very confused. I already explained the situation and you have
taken everything out of context and twisted my words. This is what
all of this comes down to... Proverbs 4:14-15, 13:20, 16:28, 20:3,
26:17, 26:20, Romans 16:17, 1Cor. 15:33, James 3:16
I am not the adulterous woman you venomously write of ...among your
other countless unfounded accusations.
You are caught up in a perverse path. You surround yourself with people
that spread strife. You are quarrelsome and “cause dissensions
and hindrances contrary to the teaching” in the Word of God.
You are swimming in vomit.
And according to the Word of God, I wrongly have engaged in conversation
with you. For that I beg the forgiveness of my Lord. Please stop e-mailing
me and stop leaving comments at my website. Pass this on to all of
Victor’s followers.
Ex Animo
Posted by: Lisa Nunley | April 9, 2008 03:01 PM
People, if you wish
to perish in your illnesses, that is your prerogative. As if you
know what all diseases the Lord laid on the Egyptians.
And why should that matter anyway? The Lord promises that no
good thing would He withhold from those who walk uprightly. Obviously
with MS we can hardly say you walk uprightly.
When we tell you about a better way in the Lord Jesus Christ, you
cry foul and insist the will of God for health regarding those that
call on His Name is wrong and evil. It is no wonder you are sick. What
wicked liars you all are.
Lisa, are you denying you did not flat-out lie to us about posting
on Carla’s blog? Is subterfuge and deceit what you refer to as
your “gracious reply”? If so, that is consistent behavior
for a liar. We have the record here of all that has been said and if
you will not share it, we will, that others may see how Calvinism with
a feminine touch, as one of you calls it, works.
We know that lying is a work of the flesh. While the hearts of men
are not open for deceivers to see, the Scriptures plainly declare that
the works of the flesh are MANIFEST (clearly revealed) to those whose
eyes have been opened by God. Your denials are self-serving and antiChrist.
It is not patriotism, but religion that is the last refuge of scoundrels.
That is the lesson of John Calvin and those that follow him in his
ways.
UPDATE: Lisa, I see your new posting says that we have falsely accused
you of emasculating your husband. You use your children to testify
that this is not so. That is like asking fish in the sea if they are
in water. They do not know what you are talking about, having nothing
to compare to the fact that they have been in water all their lives.
Your children, sincere as they may be, and as sincere as you may be,
are in error and delusion with you. You have proven nothing by appealing
to those close to you. Blood is indeed thicker than water. You have
no spiritual understanding or wisdom.
Frankly, your husband may have been emasculated before you did your
work on him. We are not sure, and it does not matter. The fact is that
he is titular head of your household only, despite the appearances
in which you trust. The Lord Jesus Christ says not to judge by appearances.
Plainly you are the man of the house to whom we have been speaking
all along. Where, as I once asked before, are your husbands? Why do
they not speak with us? Because you women are the spiritual heads,
contrary to Scripture and Godly order. You and your families suffer
because this is so.
I never said you have placed your husband above Christ. I said that
you serve yourself in your idolatry. You do not truly love your husband.
The idolater serves herself, not the idol. The one Lisa Nunley truly
loves is Lisa Nunley. That is why you protest so vehemently over this
matter. It impugns your righteousness and work. She that keeps her
life loses it.
That is why you lied to us, trying to hide your identity. That is
why you fight for your life here, and seek solace from those in darkness,
in a mutual admiration society where all of you serve yourselves.
“Flattery is nothing less than setting a trap” (Proverbs
29:5 CEV).
Paul
Posted by: Paul Cohen | April 9, 2008 03:33 PM
Paul... I already wrote
you about this. You are the liar. I already told you those e-mails
to Ingrid were not from me. As I said, the
comments from Carla were definitely from me and they were warranted.
Did you misplace that e-mail? or delete that part? [EDITOR’S
NOTE: WE NEVER RECEIVED SUCH A LETTER] I also told you that the
situation has been handled as it should... or did you delete that
too? Do not
forget to read on the left side bar “Why I Blog”
I do not fight for my life. My life is abundant through Christ and
in HIM alone I stand uprightly and stomp in puddles with my children,
and ski down mountains as I look up and proclaim “I will lift
mine eyes unto the hills; from whence cometh my help? My help cometh
from the Lord who made heaven and earth...” Psalm 121.
I will praise you, O LORD, with all my heart; I will tell of all your
wonders. I will be glad and rejoice in you; I will sing praise to your
name, O Most High. --Psalm 9:1,2
I write this last comment to you and all of Victor’s followers
to officially inform you that your comments in my blog will no longer
be posted and your e-mails will be sent directly to my trash bin. You
have continually proven to be what the Scriptures warn true believers
in Christ to turn away from. I will not enter your path of wickedness.
I have repented of even attempting to converse with you. Your own words
condemn you.
This is it. No more. The end.
Ex Animo,
Lisa
Posted by: Lisa Nunley | April 9, 2008 04:03 PM
Wow Lisa, these people
make my stomach turn. I have met nasty people in the church, and
these may be some of the nastiest.
They are full of pride, and self-righteousness. May the Lord give
them broken spirits, and contrite hearts.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My Word.” Isa. 66:2
Truly when we sometimes cast our pearls before swine, they come and
trample us.
Lord bless you Lisa. Keep on my sister. You have a great testimony.
You are not unlike Joni, though she is one of my “hero’s” of
the faith, as is John Piper, and John Calvin.
Posted by: donsands |
April 9, 2008 08:01 PM
Lisa, that was an excellent selection of verses
you shared in your comment to Ingrid -- and a good reminder to us
all.
You’re a beautiful woman of God and I’m grateful that
you blog. I’ve learned a lot and been blessed many times over
here at Deo Volente, and I know I’m not the only one.
To God be the glory, amen?
Posted by: jen elslager | April 9, 2008 08:28 PM
Yes, Donsands. As
I said, their own words condemn them.
Truly amen Jen. To God ALONE be all the glory. And as my left sidebar
says, “I definitely have no insight that is deeper than what
God has already revealed. Therefore, if you find anything of value
here than give God the glory!”
Posted by: Lisa Nunley | April
9, 2008 09:13 PM
Specifically for Victor and all of his followers:
“The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon
the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have
been seared as with a hot iron.--I Timothy 4:1-2
Posted by: Lisa Nunley
| April 11, 2008 03:56 PM
“And His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or
his parents, that he would be born blind?’ (3) Jesus answered, ‘It
was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so
that the works of God might be displayed in him.’”
John 9:2-3
Posted by: Chris Taylor | April 13, 2008 09:08 PM
Letter sent by Victor
to Jen (in response to this posting above):
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor
Hafichuk
To: joythruChrist@...com
Cc: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:43 PM
Subject: Scriptural View of Illness
Jen, while Scripture is filled with examples of “people with
physical illnesses,” it is not at all filled with stories of
believers with physical illnesses, and if they were ill, God healed
them. As it is written:
“Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church,
and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the
Lord. And the prayer of faith will cure the sick, and the Lord shall
raise him up. And if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.
Confess faults to one another, and pray for one another, that you may
be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous one avails much” (James
5:14-16 MKJV).
But you do not believe Him and so you greatly err. Both your examples
are illegitimate and I will tell you why (besides the fact that while
Job and Paul are believers, Lisa is not, so their examples would not
be applicable to her):
Paul was not ill. His condition was
that of a thorn in the flesh, which, the Scripture says, was a devil,
a messenger from Satan
to buffet him.
The thorn in the flesh was not because of sin; it was God’s
grace to prevent sin:
“And by the surpassing revelations, lest I be made haughty,
a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet
me, lest I be made haughty. For this thing I besought the Lord three
times, that it might depart from me. And He said to me, My grace is
sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness. Most
gladly therefore I will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power
of Christ may overshadow me” (2 Corinthians 12:7-9 MKJV).
Paul also spoke of infirmities but he was not ill. Not Victor, but
the Word of God says these things, and for you to say otherwise only
shows your ignorance of God, His will and ways, the Word, and the power
thereof.
As for Job, his was a classical case for all believers, wherein the
Lord stripped him of everything, then abundantly restored all to him.
Job was not ill because of sin. Lisa is. How do we know the difference?
I know Job’s fruits and I know Lisa’s. Furthermore, if
you need proof, we will compare the end of Job with that of Lisa, though
I already know her end. Lisa has been stripped of her full health but
unless she repents, she will not recover as did Job.
While you are partially correct saying that “illness
is not necessarily an indicator of one’s spiritual condition” (at
least not specifically), I tell you it is because of sin that Lisa
is ill and it is not because of an abundance of revelation or because
she has the wherewithal to minister anything of value to anyone. Her
counsel to others and use of Scripture is nothing other than presumption
and self-exaltation; it is rebellion; it is witchcraft, and God sees
it exactly so. And Lord willing, you will see her end, that is, if
you live to see it, seeing you too are ill because of sin. Standing
with her in her deceitfulness and wickedness, you come under God’s
wrath with her, besides because of your own sins.
And don’t tell me, as does she, that she serves “her” Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. He, the Real, the True, has nothing to do
with her because she has nothing to do with Him. She serves another
Jesus, as do you. We know the True Jesus, and we speak by Him, and
you are altogether blasphemous and calling for severe strokes in your
reviling us.
You say that illness is “only an indicator
of the human race’s
fallen condition in general.”
That is true. However, you people claim to believe. I have news for
you – Good News if you believe, and awful news if you choose
to remain in your sins. The Lord has come to redeem us from that fallen
condition. You don’t believe that because you are still in your
fallen state, unregenerate, with His wrath still upon you:
“He who believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he who
does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides
upon him” (John 3:36 MKJV).
“But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for
our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with
His stripes we ourselves are healed” (Isaiah 53:5 MKJV).
“The LORD is our protector and glorious King, blessing us with
kindness and honor. He does not refuse any good thing to those
who do what is right” (Psalms 84:11 GNB).
I know what I am talking about, Jen, as confirmed both by years of
experience and Scripture, not perverting It, as all you do, but rightly
dividing and interpreting It, and you despise It and us for it.
“He has forgiveness for all your sins; he takes away all
your diseases; He keeps back your life from destruction, crowning you with
mercy and grace” (Psalms 103:3-4 BBE).
“All” means “all” or we may as well toss it
all away and forget we ever red His Word. Lisa foolishly eats her own
flesh and bites the hand that feeds her while presuming to feed others.
She thinks she knows what diseases the Lord laid or did not lay on
the Egyptians. She seems to assume that while God promises those under
the Law good health with obedience, those in grace have less. Yet she
assumes we have more than did they, right? She also presumes that if
God did not specify MS or cancer with the Israelites, then somehow
believers are prone to those because they weren’t covered in
the ancient list.
Foolish, wicked women, you are, all of you! Is it any wonder you perish
in your sins? You cling to them for dear life and condemn the Healer
while vainly worshipping Him with your wretched lips, thus doubling
your sin and the wrath. You accuse us of distorting the Scriptures
but speak stupidly of Them, knowing nothing, nothing at all. So you
die, but oh, how good you are at entertaining one another and encouraging
each other in your vanities!
Finally, you write, “It is extremely sad
that you are stooping so low. You remain in my prayers.”
Why should you be sad that I should stoop down from God’s throne
to tell you your sins in order to deliver you from them? Is it because
you prefer to remain in your sins? As to your prayers, they are nowhere
near the throne of God. They have no entrance to God, seeing they are
abominable to Him. We know this because we are one with Him in the
heavenlies, even as He promised:
“I pray that they may all be one. Father! May they be in Us,
just as You are in Me and I am in You. May they be one, so that the
world will believe that You sent Me. I gave them the same glory You
gave Me, so that they may be one, just as You and I are one: I in them
and You in Me, so that they may be completely one, in order that the
world may know that You sent Me and that You love them as You love
Me” (John 17:21-23 GNB)
He was faithful to His Word and has fulfilled it for and in us, as
promised. You have neither seen nor known of these things. Indeed,
I do not believe you have so much as heard of them.
----- Original Message -----
From: joythruChrist@...com
To: Victor
Hafichuk
Cc: Lisa
Nunley
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Scriptural View of Illness
Once again, it does not surprise me that email from you people ended
up in my spam folder. Right next to Chinese emails I can’t read
and other nasty emails I won’t bother to mention here. Normally
I just click on ‘delete all spam’, but then I saw your
name.
Why are you bothering me? I mean really, what’s your purpose?
I already get that you seem to get some kind of thrill out of trying
to irritate people, but can’t you see that we just feel sorry
for you and are praying for you? You have a God complex, and it’s
more than just sad -- it’s utter blasphemy.
It does no good to talk with you because there are none so blind as
those who will not see.
Here’s clear evidence that you take people’s words and
twist them:
I said that I was sad that you were stooping so low -- and in context
my statement was referring to attacking Lisa for her illness. And you
twist my statement into this:
Why should you be sad that I should stoop down from
God’s throne
to tell you your sins to deliver you from them?
Stoop down from God’s throne? Really, Victor? So YOU are the
one on God’s throne? That would make you God, then, right?
Like I said -- God complex. Blasphemy, Victor. You’re in need
of some serious help mentally.
Paul’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: joythruChrist@...com
Cc: Lisa
Nunley ; Victor
Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:11 PM
Subject: Testimony of Jesus Christ
“But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father has been working
until now, and I am working.’ Because of this the Jews were seeking
all the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath,
but also He called God His own Father, making Himself equal with God” (John
5:17-18 EMTV).
“Jesus said to her, Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended
to My Father. But go to My brothers and say to them,
I ascend to My Father and your Father, and to My God
and your God” (John 20:17
MKJV).
“They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify
them through Your truth. Your Word is truth. As You have sent
Me into the world, even so I have sent them into the world. And I sanctify
Myself for their sakes, so that they also might be sanctified in truth....
And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they
may be one, even as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, that
they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that You have
sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me” (John 17:16-23
MKJV).
Jen, here is the difference between us: We know and confess that Jesus
Christ comes in the flesh. He has come in us. You say this is impossible,
calling it “blasphemy,” just as your fathers said to the
Lord. Your “Jesus Christ” is dead, a vain imagination in
your head, while ours is alive and bearing witness against you and
your dead god through us, just as He promised:
“Woe to you! Because you build the tombs of the prophets, and
your fathers killed them. Consequently, you bear witness to and approve
of the deeds of your fathers; because they indeed killed them, but
you build their tombs. Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I
will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will
kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets which
was shed from the foundation of the world may be required from this
generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished
between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required
of this generation” (Luke 11:47-51 EMTV).
Enoch also prophesied of this day, as Jude recorded:
“And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these,
saying, Behold, the Lord came with myriads of His saints, to do judgment
against all, and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their
ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things
ungodly sinners spoke against Him” (Jude 1:14-15 MKJV).
We testify, in His righteousness, and by His appointment, against
your blasphemies. You know nothing, Jen, yet you speak as though you
know everything.
Paul Cohen
Jen’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: joythruChrist@...com
To: Paul
Cohen
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Testimony of Jesus Christ
No, I definitely do not speak as though I know everything, but this
one thing I know for sure:
There is only one Jesus Christ who came in the flesh, and it’s
not you or Victor. And I am forever grateful to the Most High God that
you are not His representatives. However, I do continue to pray that
you will repent and be forgiven of these most grievous sins.
Paul’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: joythruChrist@...com
Cc: Lisa
Nunley ; Victor
Hafichuk
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: Testimony of Jesus Christ
Jen, we notice that you never dispute the Scriptures we present to
you. You simply ignore them and continue to give us your perverse and
unsupported opinions that contravene the Word of God.
You say that we are not Jesus Christ. We never said we were God. But
we do claim, by His grace, to be part of His body. As it is written:
“For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes
it, just as also the Lord does the church. For we are members
of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. ‘For this reason a man shall
leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the
two shall become one flesh.’ This is a great mystery, but I
speak in reference to Christ and to the church” (Ephesians 5:29-32
EMTV).
He has sent us to speak to you. It is not man, but God Whom you reject:
“Most assuredly I say to you, he who receives whomever I send
receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him Who sent Me” (John
13:20 EMTV).
Therefore, to the Most High God, what you express for gratefulness
is as spitting in His face and your prayers despising His work are
as curses in His ears. Far better that you should be a whore or crack
addict, than a religious hypocrite and Christ-hater.
Paul
Letter sent to Lisa and a list of commentators on Lisa’s blog:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: kristina@...com ; joythruChrist@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
;
dvandelaar@...com ; rstark@...com ; JLof@...com ; Lisa
Nunley ; Lisa
Nunley ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: An Answer and Vision From the Lord
Lisa Nunley claims that we are the liars, not she. Here is Ingrid
Benson’s account of what the Lord gave her for His answer in
this matter:
“After receiving the two emails from Lisa, telling me that she
did not have a blog, had three daughters and had been married to the
same husband for 24 years, I wondered what was going on. Although this
lady’s name was Lisa Nunley and her email name was identical,
along with similar words spoken to us, she claimed she was not the
Lisa Nunley I thought she was. I called Victor and the two of us discussed
and clarified the implications of those emails. The situation looked
somewhat confused and confusing, so we prayed and asked the Lord to
show us what we needed to know. A little while after, I saw a picture
of two female bodies (I know they were female because they wore dresses)
standing side by side. Then, the two bodies merged into one body, starting
from the feet towards the head.”
So we have seen it happen as the correspondences from the two Lisa
Nunleys have merged into one person before our eyes.
“For many deceivers have entered into the world, who do not
confess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and
the anti-Christ” (2 John 1:7 MKJV).
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Paul
Cohen ; kristina@...com ; joythruChrist@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
;
dvandelaar@...com ; rstark@...com ; JLof@...com ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: An Answer and Vision From the Lord
You guys are demonic... test the spirits. Yours is obviously a demon
deceiving you not only in your doctrine, your self-promoting prophesies,
but in your demented dreams.
Paul’s reply to Lisa:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: Lisa
Nunley
Cc: kristina@...com ; joythruChrist@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
;
dvandelaar@...com ; rstark@...com ; JLof@...com ; Lisa
Nunley ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Exposed and Confounded
Lisa, that was a vision, not a dream. You have been very careless
and slipshod, as when answering us here from your doppelganger address
and not including your regular address on the mailing list. Are you
now going to tell everyone that you are not the same person as the
blogger Lisa Nunley, as you lied to us? Go ahead, trot out more of
your stories, so everyone else can see who truly has the demons.
Paul
Reply from Lisa:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Paul
Cohen
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: Exposed and Confounded
1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the
faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such
teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been
seared as with a hot iron.
That is you and all of Victor’s followers.
Reply from Jen:
----- Original Message -----
From: joythruChrist@...com
To: Lisa
Nunley
Cc: Paul
Cohen ; kristina@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
; dvandelaar@...com ; rstark@...com ; JLof@...com ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: An Answer and Vision From the Lord
I agree with Lisa on this. And I continue to pray for your souls.
Reply from Dan:
Dear Paul,
I see no reason to include myself or anyone else in your emails dealing
with this issue. Please remove me from further correspondence.
I don’t doubt that you had some form of vision, whether spiritual
or hallucinatory I shall not say, though my suspicion is that it was
not from the Lord. Regardless, the vision itself only troubles me in
that you don’t seem able to discern between what is of God and
what is not of God, and therefore I am concerned for your spiritual
health. But what is more directly troubling is that on the strength
of your own subjective interpretation, you have convinced yourself
of some duplicity in Lisa, and having relied only on this, you have
bothered people who ought not to have been bothered until you had something
a little more substantial than your mystical intuition.
Please therefore, consider the merit of having better evidence in
your hand before you broadcast your lack of it, to me at least.
Yours, in Christ,
Dan
<><
P.S. - I don’t know Lisa, but I suggest that if you have received
some sort of communication from someone using her name, then it was
likely just that - someone using her name. As an IT professional I
can assure you, it isn’t that hard to spoof email addresses -
in fact, spammers do it all the time. You might want to consider the
possibility that you are embarrassingly mistaken, and more than a little
naive.
Paul’s reply:
Dan, I understand that this matter is not easy to follow and we did
not get into all the details of Lisa’s deception. Your observation
about knowing what you are talking about before making any charges
is certainly good advice. However, we do have direct evidence of Lisa’s
deceitfulness that confirms what God showed us. On my part, I saw that
evidence before I ever knew Ingrid had the vision of Lisa’s deception.
So I was not relying on a personal interpretation, which would not
be right. We must know and have confirmation from God.
As an IT professional, you of all people should have noticed that
we were not talking about spoofing of addresses. It was a gmail address
rather than a hotmail address from which we were contacted by Lisa
Nunley (lisa4given). She also claimed she was not the Lisa Nunley we
were just talking to, so there was no spoofing going on by the allegedly “second” Lisa.
When Ingrid wrote back to this “second” Lisa, using the
first Lisa’s address (to see what would happen), lo and behold,
the first Lisa answered Ingrid as if the letter was addressed to
her. She did not pay attention or seem to notice that the mail was
sent to the “wrong” Lisa. She also did not answer any
questions we asked her about her authorship of the posts on Carla’s
blog. Both Ingrid and I consequently asked for clarification, which
she would not give at that time, contrary to lying assertions she
later made on her blog.
Even if there were two Lisas, Dan, and there are not, Lisa Nunley
has been deceitful and accusatory without substance or just cause.
Both “Lisa Nunleys” came to us as proud, foolish women,
totally devoid of substance and identical in spirit. Both equally condemned
the testimony of God given in the Scriptures. We have several witnesses
testifying to this and the evidence of our correspondence, which you
are welcome to see if you like.
Even Lisa’s friend Jen testifies to this, as you will see in
her recent reply, agreeing with the “stranger” Lisa Nunley
from gmail, oblivious to the fact that this is supposedly another person.
Perhaps it does not matter to you that liars and murderers hold court
in the Name of Christ, bringing shame to His Wonderful Name, but it
certainly should. The worst part of it is that you are with them, aiding
and supporting them. You made ignorant comments on Carla’s blog,
a woman whose wicked, mocking tongue has been silenced by our speaking
the truth to her. You had no idea of what we are about or doing, but
there you were strengthening the hand of the wicked. Shame on you.
Why do you follow wicked, silly women instead of following your own
advice and knowing what you are talking about before saying anything?
There is an urgent need for humbling and repentance in your life, my
friend.
Paul
Paul’s reply to Jen:
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
Cohen
To: joythruChrist@...com
Cc: Lisa
Nunley; kristina@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
; rstark@...com ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; Victor
Hafichuk ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:30 PM
Subject: Oh What A Tangled Web She Weaves
Ahem, Jen, you are replying to the doppelganger Lisa Nunley here,
the one who says she knows nothing about your friend, Lisa Nunley.
That is, of course, according to the lies we have been told by your
friend.
Victor’s reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor
Hafichuk
To: Paul
Cohen ; joythruChrist@...com
Cc: Lisa
Nunley ; kristina@...com ; portrayingfemininegrace@...com
; rstark@...com ; Trevor & Ingrid
Benson ; kncrolfe@...com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Oh What A Tangled Web She Weaves
Which is more likely to be of devils, lies and liars exposed by a
vision, or the vision that tells the truth about the lies and the liar?
Lisa’s reply to Paul:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Paul
Cohen ; joythruChrist@...com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Oh What A Tangled Web She Weaves
No... she is replying to your dippy, dawdling delusions you deceiving,
diddling dupe
Letter from Ingrid:
----- Original Message -----
From: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
To: Lisa
Nunley ; Lisa
Nunley
Cc: rstark@...com ; kristina@...com ; dvandelaar@...com
; portrayingfemininegrace@...com ; joythruChrist@...com ; kncrolfe@...com
; fivesolasfamily@...net ; chelseyhall@...com ; jmikeratliff@...com
; Paul
Cohen ; Victor
Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:06 AM
Subject: “...go ask your prophet...”
Hi Lisa,
You will remember that you sent me the two emails below in response
to a letter I wrote you about your blog and the video of your marriage
testimony:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
I do not own a blog and have no idea who you are talking about but
obviously you are clueless. I am married with 3 girls of my own with
a husband that I have been married to for 24 years.
How sad your life must be to make excuses in the name of Christ for
what you have done.
And:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Trevor & Ingrid
Benson
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: praying for you
I just googled “Lisa blog marriage video” then clicked
on “contact”. Now I know why you think I must be that Lisa.
Her e-mail is similar to mine. Perhaps you need to go ask your prophet
what went wrong here and then go back to Belgium and raise your kids
instead of run around with a bunch of fruitcakes.
[END OF LETTERS]
In this second email you write: “Perhaps you need to
go ask your prophet what went wrong here…”
Well, I did just that when I called Victor and the two of us asked
the Lord to show us what we needed to know. That is when the Lord gave
me the following vision as recorded in an email Paul Cohen sent you:
“I saw a picture of two female bodies standing side by side
(I knew they were female because they wore dresses). Then the two bodies
merged into one body, starting from the feet towards the head.”
So, the Lord showed “what went wrong here,” by revealing
that, contrary to what you were claiming, and still are, there was
only one Lisa Nunley, not two, and not a Lisa Nunley and a Kristi either.
You thought that you could brazenly lie and not be found out, but the
Lord has shown otherwise. As it is written:
“For nothing is secret that shall not be revealed; nor secret
which shall not be known and come to be revealed.” (Luke 8:17
MKJV)
Lisa, you might be able to fool your friends, fool yourself, fool
me (I was ready to believe you), but you cannot fool the Lord. Whether
you like it or not, or believe it or not, He just sent prophets to
you to show you that and much more. Will you ever admit to your lies?
Your last reply to Paul’s letter, which let Jen know that she
was replying to the “fake” Lisa Nunley address, shows how
far you are from doing that:
----- Original Message -----
From: Lisa
Nunley
To: Paul
Cohen ; joythruChrist@...com
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Oh What A Tangled Web She Weaves
No... she is replying to your dippy, dawdling delusions you deceiving,
diddling dupe
[End of Letter]
That is the face we have seen, hiding behind the false one you show
on your blog:
Bottomline... Press on for the glory of Christ Jesus alone.
Life is too short for drama & petty things,
so laugh hard, love truly and forgive quickly.
[End of Sayings]
Ingrid
A letter from someone anonymously using an e-mail address that looks
like Trevor & Ingrid:
Greetings, and grace to you in the name of my Lord and my Savior Jesus
Christ,
You may have noticed that I am sending this email to you as though
I were Trevor and Ingrid Benson. I am not - but it is quite easy for
me, or for anyone, to get a gmail account. I will explain why I did
that later in this email.
As I write this, I am of course hoping that your zeal for forgiveness,
self inspection, and public repentance is as robust as your zeal to
persecute Lisa Nunley has been.
I mention this because I am quite willing to extend this grace to
you: even though what has been playing out here seems to paint you
and your compatriots as, well, less than discerning, and more: less
than gracious - yet I will presume for the sake of my Savior that you
are simply immature and thereby easily deceived and deluded, yet this
is the grace I extend, I presume that for all your error, you are well
meaning and “right hearted”. I presume as well that
