After we alerted all commentators in our discussion on Lisa Nunley‘s blog of her deception, Mike sent us this reply:
Why are you sending me this garbage?
Mike, what makes you say it is garbage?
Because it is just a bunch of rambling nonsense and I have no involvement in the ‘conversation’ or whatever it is/was.
Mike, you call us false prophets and accusers, and then say you have no involvement?
Here is some background to the situation in which you judged us without concerning yourself with the facts, which you call "nonsense." I think you would be capable of rolling up your sleeves and making some sense of things, if you desired to do the right thing. Or are you sticking to your commitment to judge others without knowing what you are talking about and then not being willing to be informed and corrected when your ignorant prejudice is exposed?
I have no idea what you are talking about. When have I ever accused you of anything? I don’t even know who you are. However, I see that you are an expert on accusing others of things you are guilty of. That is the definition of hypocrisy. I suggest that you examine yourself, deeply. Are you acting from a motivation of love? Do you love the brethren? Or are you just trying to stir up trouble in the name of ‘discernment?’ If it is the former then we can talk, but if it is the latter, good day for we have nothing to discuss.
Mike, is the post below yours, from Lisa Nunley’s blog [blog removed]? It is from this post that I included you in the correspondence in question; it is related to the subject matter at hand. If this is you, and not another “spoofing” you, then you should pay more attention to what you are saying and about whom you are saying it. It is not good to talk before you know what you are talking about:
“Whoever gives an answer before he listens is stupid and shameful” (Proverbs 18:13 GW).
That is how things like this happen to you.
Worse yet would be for you to continue attacking those who point out your error and confusion because you are proud and unable to admit wrong or to receive correction when you are found speaking inadvisedly. Will you now show yourself to be the proud fool, if you have not already? Only fools do not receive instruction or correction.
Fools who call themselves children of God are called bastards by God, because He is not their father.
For your information, false accuser, we did not falsely accuse Lisa about her MS, inferring from it that God’s wrath was on her. We first saw her spirit and attitude, which are the reason for her sickness and lack of deliverance or healing. Any mitigation of symptoms in the past is surely a sign of God’s mercy and forbearance, which Lisa has now exhausted by spitting in His face. We are the last straw.
Why not read the whole correspondence, and inform yourself of what really went on before making cavalier and light statements in support of wicked sinners?
It is not we, but Lisa who chose the way of condemnation, loving her lies and deception. You are confederate with the destroyer, O great “lover” of the brethren. What other behavior could we expect from another son of Calvin than that of the destroyer?
Mike Ratliff’s post on Lisa’s blog [blog removed]:
Your post is right on Lisa. Even though those who make those false accusations about your MS in reference to your walk can cause you much heartache. Please be encouraged my sister. You know your Bible and you know that Paul was given much suffering, but it was was for God’s glory. Don’t listen to these false prophets. Just focus on God and His will. Be blessed my sister.
Yes Paul that is mine, but I was responding to her request for prayer and encouragement. Can you please tell me what is wrong with what I said? By-the-way, you sure have a ‘high’ view of yourself. Are you perfect? Are you always right? No, your are not. And from from what I have seen of your ‘attitude’ you are the one who needs to adjust yours.
I read Lisa’s post, but not all of the comments because I just do not have the time to do that. I saw nothing wrong with what she said so anyone claiming that she was out of the will of God or any way teaching what is false is, therefore, a false teacher or just an accuser of the brethren. Which are you son?
Take me off of your list son. I am not involved in your little vendetta in any way shape or form. I am not indebted to you in any way. I am not liable to your demands that I be involved in this.
Mike, you ask me to tell you what is wrong with what you said to Lisa. You are deaf, because I have already answered that question. How, then, will it help to repeat it? But if you really want to see my answer again, read my last letter.
How is it you reserve the right to strengthen the hand of the wicked, when her words had specific and evil application, and then go on to speak presumptuously in ignorance of that application? You would have joined the crowd to shout, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" not knowing it was the Christ they were condemning. That is exactly what you have done here.
You are not involved in my “little vendetta” because there is no vendetta, and you have not proven there is. But you are involved and one among many in the snake pit we have uncovered. You speak as the serpent and accuser of the brethren, without knowledge, discernment, fact or truth.
It is not what I think of myself, which is nothing, but what God says about me that matters. To Him, I am perfect, because He has formed me in His Son to be as He is in this world. What do you know of these things from your deluded, self-reformation project, which, work as hard as you will, has not managed to put away your unrighteous anger issue, has it?
Calvin also had that problem, persecuting Servetus and Castellion to death because he could not manage his anger. God warned Calvin’s father (and yours) about it, but Cain would not listen. He retained his poison, as have you, which is why you react as you do to the Lord’s brethren. We are here today to de-fang you and to send your works to Hell.
Listen to your own words:
“The vast majority of evangelical Christians exist in an extremely shallow spiritual condition. The Church worship they experience is man-focused. The sermons they hear from the pulpit are specifically designed to offend no one. There is little if any mention of sin, the need for repentance or Biblical discipleship.”
You falsely accuse and then blame those that shine the light on your false and treacherous ways of the same thing. You are thrice the sinner of those you criticize above, you vile hypocrite. And we are not the children of snakes, Satan, so go in your great wrath to the dwellers of earth as God commands of you in what remains of your short time. You will accomplish His will as a vessel of dishonor, and we will give Him honor and glory as He has assigned for us.
Blessed be the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ Who justifies all His children.
You are one arrogant person. I have not read ANY of this thread. I have not read what you have to say about Lisa or anyone else in this thread because I consider what you are doing as shameful.
I am not deaf, I am discerning. I discerned that you are a false teacher and a wolf in sheep’s clothing just by the methods you use. Also, you prove that you have no discernment of your own by going after people like Kirk Cameron. I challenge you to compare your fruit with his.
Also, your ‘data,’ or whatever you want to call it, about Calvin is totally irrelevant because it was the product of people who hated him. It is fiction, not that it matters. I don’t follow Calvin, I follow Christ. I have dealt with many such as yourself. You know nothing of God’s truth and prove it by showing no mercy. You claim that those who are discerning and preach the truth are judging when all we are doing is obeying our Lord by telling the truth. In contrast you go after people in order to elevate yourself. You put others down in order to look big and important. I rebuke you for that.
If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. (John 7:17-18 ESV)
I notice that you are guilty of doing the very thing of which you are accusing others. You took a teaching of mine, which is 100% biblical and is right. Here is your quote.
The vast majority of evangelical Christians exist in an extremely shallow spiritual condition. The Church worship they experience is man-focused. The sermons they hear from the pulpit are specifically designed to offend no one. There is little if any mention of sin, the need for repentance or Biblical discipleship."
You falsely accuse and then blame those that shine the light on your false and treacherous ways of the same thing. You are thrice the sinner of those you criticize above, you vile hypocrite. And we are not the children of snakes, Satan, so go in your great wrath to the dwellers of earth as God commands of you in what remains of your short time. You will accomplish His will as a vessel of dishonor, and we will give Him honor and glory as He has assigned for us.
The fact that you cannot see the spiritual bankruptcy in this age shows that you are part of the problem. You are who I was describing in that statement. Since you deny the genuine Gospel then you are either an apostate or a heretic. Here is the proof that you are full of lies and venom. You use the Straw Man Fallacy in your arguments. This is the number one indicator that you are a false teacher because God would never have any of his teachers and preachers do this. Example: You said, "You falsely accuse and then blame those that shine the light on your false and treacherous ways of the same thing." Where have I done this Paul? No where. I simply tell the truth from the motivation of bringing people into repentance. Also, you can come up with NO examples of anyone attacking what I teach that can be backed up up biblically. That is the challenge Paul. You must prove that what I teach is wrong from scripture alone. I have seen nothing of that from you. All I have from you is your antinomian and Pelagianistic lies which are from the pit of Hell.
Here you said, "You are thrice the sinner of those you criticize above, you vile hypocrite. And we are not the children of snakes, Satan, so go in your great wrath to the dwellers of earth as God commands of you in what remains of your short time. You will accomplish His will as a vessel of dishonor, and we will give Him honor and glory as He has assigned for us."
Straw Man fallacy number 2. Prove it from scripture that this is so. If you cannot, and you will not be able to do so, then consider that maybe you have nothing to stand on. You just don’t like it when someone stands up to you and your bullying tactics. Consider yourself rebuked. I have prayed for your repentance.
You prove your own guilt, yet you do not see it even when the proof is right in front of you. You state that you did not read what we said about Lisa, but nevertheless you still condemned us as false accusers and false prophets in what you posted on her blog. Don’t you know that you ought not to condemn people without hearing and examining the pertinent facts and evidence? Are you not familiar with the commandments of God, seeing that you think to be a teacher from Him?
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16 MKJV).
We were not bearing false witness against Lisa, but spoke factually of her deceitfulness, pride, error and un-Christlike attitude and behavior, aside from her lying to us. How can you exercise your self-proclaimed discernment when you did not hear out a matter in the first place?
“The rich man is wise in his own eyes; but the poor who has understanding searches him out” (Proverbs 28:11 MKJV).
You are a liar by nature, which is why you come to the defense of other liars. You are in darkness and do not know whom or what you condemn or whom and what you commend. In this you doubly offend against God and bring trouble on yourself:
“Woe to those who say to evil, good; and to good, evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those wise in their own eyes, and discerning in their own sight!” (Isaiah 5:20-21 LITV).
You are an irresponsible talker of the kind Paul the apostle described:
“For there are indeed many insubordinate men, empty talkers and mind-deluders, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouth you must stop, who overturn whole houses, teaching things which they ought not for the sake of ill gain. One of them, a prophet of their own, said: Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons. This testimony is true; for which cause convict them severely, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:10-13 LITV).
So there are no straw men here when I tell you that you falsely accuse others and then complain about being rightfully blamed yourself, because I have given you all the evidence that proves this is so and you refuse to acknowledge it. The ball is in your court, and any blame in the matter is your own.
You challenge me to compare my fruit to Kirk Cameron’s. What do you know about fruits? Undoubtedly you are impressed by the Pharisees who compass land and sea to make proselytes. Kirk and Ray preach a false gospel and Christ, which I have proven is false by the Scriptures. Read all the letters. Kirk and Ray preach Hell as the Omega, not Jesus Christ. What kind of fruit is that?
My “data” about Calvin is not mine. I simply presented the well-established and documented record in which Calvin amply incriminates himself while thinking to justify his murder and persecutions. I know those things are true by the testimony of the Truth, of which Servetus and Castellion gave witness, as also recorded. This has nothing to do with hatred towards Calvin, either from them or from us. That you cannot see this is indicative of your pride and hate, the same that consumed Calvin and caused him to murder and persecute these men.
I am reading Michael Servetus’ book, The Restoration of Christianity, and I have not found one disparaging or hateful remark about Calvin or anyone else. Yes, he excoriates the blasphemous doctrine of the trinity, and rightly so. Thank God we know the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the true God (1 John 5:20) and Whom we declare to the world! The imposters and false gods must make way for Him, as darkness cedes to Light.
Mike, it is entirely your opinion that I “go after people” to elevate myself. There is no corroborating evidence that I am a glory seeker, not in the least. Produce it, if you will. I do not have a website named after me, as you do, and what I say is universally hated by all men. By preaching the Truth, we offend Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Pentacostals, Branhamites, Worldwide Church of God (and all its branches), Universalists, Unitarians, Bahais, Messianics, Hindus, Buddhists, yes, Calvinists, and all men. As Paul wrote:
“For is it man’s favor or God’s that I aspire to? Or am I seeking to please men? If I were still a man-pleaser, I should not be Christ’s bondservant” (Galatians 1:10 WNT).
You are a flatterer and man-pleaser, Mike. Your blog shows it, with your many “attaboys” and words of encouragement that are aimed at bolstering your support. You say to me, “You put others down in order to look big and important. I rebuke you for that.” I say it is quite the opposite: You flatter and cajole others in order to be big and important:
“These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaks puffed up words, flattering people to gain advantage” (Jude 1:16 EMTV).
You are a hypocrite and your rebuke returns on your own head as coals of fire that come by my kindness of speaking the truth to you.
You say about me, “The fact that you cannot see the spiritual bankruptcy in this age shows that you are part of the problem.”
Of course this statement is patently ludicrous, as any impartial reader of our letters and site can tell. But you are so blind in your religious delusion that you cannot perceive even the most simple of statements and what they mean. I did not say that others professing Christ are not sinners. Plainly I said they are. What I said is that you are three times the sinner of those nominal Christians you criticize who don’t know anything, because you say you can see and understand, having been enlightened, yet you condemn servants of God without a hearing, taking the testimony of false witnesses and liars to do so.
Many of these nominal Christians in their worldly churches do not claim to be so knowledgeable of God and reformed from their lukewarm ways, as you do. That makes you all the more guilty and reprehensible. And it is particularly vile and odious of you to ignore your sins while you continue to point the finger at others as spiritually bankrupt.
“But do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things yet doing them, that you will escape the judgment of God?” (Romans 2:3 EMTV)
There is the Scripture you asked for in “Straw man fallacy number 2.”
You write: “Also, you can come up with NO examples of anyone attacking what I teach that can be backed up up biblically. That is the challenge Paul. You must prove that what I teach is wrong from scripture alone. I have seen nothing of that from you. All I have from you is your antinomian and Pelagianistic lies which are from the pit of Hell.”
I have proven that you are a blind fool and hypocrite. Is being a child of the devil not enough to suit you? So what if all your doctrines were right, which they are not? All you need to do is read Diabolical Doctrines and The True Marks of a Cult and you will find many Scriptural proofs that many of your doctrines and practices are indeed in error. Perhaps the greatest of all false doctrines you teach is Scripturally refuted in The Most Glorious of Truths and Jesus Christ, Almighty God.
You declare: “Since you deny the genuine Gospel then you are either an apostate or a heretic.”
What “genuine Gospel” do we deny? Post this on your site, Mike, and let’s discuss this very point. You try to prove that we do not preach the true Gospel, and we will answer you. How about it?
Mike did not reply, but he did post an entry about this situation in his blog: How to Detect a False Prophet. Here are Victor’s replies to Mike and individual commentators.
We sent this reply to the individual commentators:
To those here that participated on Mike Ratliff’s blog entry, How to Detect a False Prophet, Victor Hafichuk replied to each of you, though Mike refused to post his answers. I am therefore sending this to you so you can see Victor’s answers to you, and his reply to Mike (given first).
Reply to Mike:
Mike Ratliff, Victor Hafichuk here, in the Wonderful Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to which Name you bring reproach and cause others to blaspheme.
I will address your blog posting of April 20, 2008 and prove it is against the Lord Jesus Christ and not only against us.
Your blog is not there for the Lord. You simply use His Name for self-aggrandizement, taking upon yourself His Name in vain. All those you entertain with your wickedness, which is paraded as righteousness, are as you.
I declare that you have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, and He now speaks to you by us. You don’t know Him and He does not know you, who work lawlessly. He has never known you, even as He says:
“Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!” (Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV)
You are His enemies, scattering and not gathering. This goes for several, if not all of your participants, who company with you in the Lord’s Name. Of and to those who stand against the Lord with Mike, here is what the Word has to say:
Proverbs 6:12-19 MSG
(12) Riffraff and rascals talk out of both sides of their mouths.
(13) They wink at each other, they shuffle their feet, they cross their fingers behind their backs.
(14) Their perverse minds are always cooking up something nasty, always stirring up trouble.
(15) Catastrophe is just around the corner for them, a total smash-up, their lives ruined beyond repair.
(16) Here are six things GOD hates, and one more that he loathes with a passion:
(17) eyes that are arrogant, a tongue that lies, hands that murder the innocent,
(18) a heart that hatches evil plots, feet that race down a wicked track,
(19) a mouth that lies under oath, a troublemaker in the family.
For those of you who have a problem with Peterson (MSG), take it from the KJV.
You quote John 7:17-18. Those words are spoken by the One we serve and you use them without authority or understanding as He intended them. Furthermore, they indict you, as is plainly visible by your blog and your spirit for those with spiritual discernment to see, which you claim to have but do not.
Concerning your “sister in Christ,” Lisa Nunley, we have already tried to reason with you concerning your irresponsible conduct in commenting, and accusing and condemning us without knowledge of the facts. By your own mouth you confessed you had no idea of whom and against whom you spoke or why, yet did nothing about it. Only stubborn fools conduct themselves that way:
“Answering before listening is both stupid and rude” (Proverbs 18:13 MSG).
Many have made their ignorant remarks on this blog without knowledge, much less understanding. Certainly the Lord’s sons and daughters do not do so. Paul Cohen dealt with you, Mike, on this issue and you were too proud and stubborn to even try to ascertain the facts, much less understand them, and where you were clearly proven wrong, you could acknowledge nothing.
Why don’t you post Paul’s letters to you and let all see the correspondence in entirety? Is that too much to ask? We want this all in the open, unlike the wicked that flee when none pursue or speak without responsibility or accountability. We have the postings, including those with Nunley and Elslager, so that all parties may access the complete dialogue, with nothing omitted: Flushing Out a Snake.
Mike, you accuse us of “attacking” your fellow blogger concerning her illness. You lie and she lies. We did no such thing. The illness matter was not an issue to us or to the Lord. It was but a small part of the picture, a mere symptom, one of many.
If Lisa Nunley or Jen Elslager or anyone else took it as an attack, we are not responsible. How is it you automatically judge our motives and hearts in the matter, yet without fact? Who but the one known as the liar, murderer, and accuser of the brethren does that? Where is the substance for your accusation? There is none, Mike, yet you presume to preach the Gospel and represent Christ?
What we did do was speak the truth for their sakes, according to the truth of Scripture, that they might repent and be restored in spiritual health and thus, Lord willing, physical. Is that an unacceptable motive to you? Does speaking the truth with the genuine intent of helping fall into your definition of “attack”?
We have good cause to speak of illness as a result of sin. The Bible is unequivocal on that matter. For all those who might have a grain of interest, objectivity, and desire for truth, read God Heals Today, His Way. Who are you to judge that their illness is not a result of sin or that it would not be taken away with repentance?
You bear a false report, Mike; you lie and evilly judge our confrontation. Of us and our correspondence, you say, “…where he was continually attacking her character and salvation. He used intimidation tactics and used absolutely no biblical references to support his attacks.”
My dictionary defines “intimidation” as: “being made to feel afraid or timid, bullying.” We were not there to do as you evilly surmise. However, it is true that we addressed her character and false claims, not to attack but to expose, not for our sakes alone, but more so hers and the Lord’s. As it says, “Reprove the works of darkness.” Should we expect darkness to be receptive?
As for salvation, she is not saved and never was. Professing faith means nothing. But you scorn that assertion and condemn us because you are not saved. I know I will not make headway with you now but we will speak, for the record. You and those with you will be without excuse. As I have already said, you, Mike, are not a genuine Christian either – just another tare, a child of the Devil. How do I know? We have told you:
“He who is of God hears God’s Words. Therefore you do not hear them because you are not of God” (John 8:47 MKJV).
“We are of God. He who knows God hears us. The one who is not of God does not hear us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6 MKJV).
We will also specify other fruits. Of you and your friends (and I will address each and several of them), it is written:
“They are of the world, therefore they speak of the world, and the world hears them” (1 John 4:5 MKJV).
You say we offered no Biblical references? Again, you lie. As I said, we provided and do provide the authority of Scripture to substantiate what we say. All you need to do is avail yourselves of the postings and papers as linked: Flushing Out a Snake.
We are not afraid of you. If you are the righteous and we are the wicked ones, we ought to be afraid of you, according to the proverb:
“The wicked are edgy with guilt, ready to run off even when no one’s after them; Honest people are relaxed and confident, bold as lions” (Proverbs 28:1 MSG).
But we are not running, are we? We will scatter the darkness. We have come across a nest of scorners and ignorant cowards, tares presuming to be wheat, hypocrites who stop their ears because their mouths are stopped. And your time is up.
You wickedly accuse us of conducting a “vendetta” and then write: “I had to show a great deal of restraint here because the temptation was to pull out the big guns and go for it, but I refrained.”
Proud boaster. “I have muscle but I am also pious and self-restraining; feast your eyes on me.” Do you think you are a mighty man, Mike? Frankly, you don’t have water pistols. Your holsters are empty. You pretend righteousness and restraint because you have nothing or are afraid to show your true colors.
Don’t refrain; speak up, that is, if you have anything at all to say, which you don’t. We do, so better you should listen up and shut up, Mike.
You say, “The most typical indicator of a false prophet or teacher is that their ways and message are not biblical,” and “How do we know if a teacher or preacher really is from God? Their message will be biblical. It will line up with the Bible.”
Of course false ones are not Biblical – that is like saying pigs have no wings. But how presumptuous it is of you, as though you have the ability to judge and use the Bible as a measure! How shall a false teacher judge? What you do have is your darkened interpretation of what you think the Bible says and a gross misunderstanding of what it says, because you do not know the Author of the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ. Your doctrines are of men and not of God. You are deceived by “another gospel,” one that has slain many. Read Diabolical Doctrine: “Accepting” Jesus Christ as Your Personal Savior.
You suggest, “After reading…I suggest that you go to that site and with all discernment read what is there.”
Where are they to receive that discernment? From you, Mike? You proudly profess to have it, like a little three-year old who thinks he can push over a house. One of the gifts of the Spirit is discernment, but not having the Spirit, how can one then discern? Read The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Diabolical Doctrines: The Gifts of the Holy Spirit Are Not for Today and There Are No Prophets or Apostles Today
Yes, in your antiChrist spirit, you will condemn it as “Pentecostalism.” But read anyway – one day you may find a way out of your sins.
Being a Calvinist, for example, and in agreement with that false teacher’s major doctrines makes you a child of darkness and not of Light. Read Is Your Profession of Faith Vain, Christian?, Counterfeit Christianity, The True Marks of a Cult, So You Want to Walk with Jesus, and The Restitution of All Things. No doubt, in your ignorance and with your indoctrination of devils, you will scoff at what we, the few in Christ on the narrow path, have to say, according to the Scriptures and their Author. It’s your choice.
You say, “Along with this, when they do ‘attack’ genuine Bible teachers or ministers, they do not use the Bible or, if they do, they twist what it says.”
Again you accuse us of attacking, and that “genuine Bible teachers.” Would you know if you saw one? Because you have been taught by men as to what are “genuine Bible teachers,” does that mean you were taught by God? Says who, Mike? Are you an authority? Are you appointed of God to judge these matters? Plainly, you are not, but you don’t know that, and, frankly, you don’t really care, do you? You are not there for that. You are quite content with just being heard, recognized, and praised by men.
And just how do we twist what the Bible says? Must we have your understanding to use it aright? Must all believe what you say, without any substance, simply because Mike says so? And you call us arrogant?
And how do you test the spirits, Mike? Do you know? We have tested many and found them wanting. We have tried you, not that we need any persuasion of your stance and nature, but you had to be told how the Lord sees you. The Lord has shown us, and so we speak.
You say, “Another indicator is whether their message and ministry exalts God or themselves.”
They accused Jesus of bearing witness of Himself. So what makes you think you know the difference? Where do you see us exalting ourselves? You don’t say. All you do is the very things of which you accuse us. You attack us; you criticize and denounce us as false teachers but give no substance, only opinion. You take general Scripture, put your spin on it and expect people to believe you. And you will not answer to your error when we show it to you.
Mike, you are a phony, through and through. While you have fooled some people, you have not deceived God. You write, specifying false teachers: “They have not the Holy Spirit. They are worldly. They may proclaim that they know Jesus, but they are full of evil.” You speak of yourself, precisely.
You write: “In their personal lives, genuine ministers will be marked by a growing Christlikeness while the false teacher, not being a Christian, will be marked by a parody of it.”
My, my, are you growing in Christlikeness, Mike, or is it a parody? Is your act not a spoof? Who shall say? You say these things of me, and I of you, but who knows? Your friends? Those who are in their sins and blinded by false religion with you?
What does God have to say? That is why we are here, that He may finally have His say.
You make many charges but give no specifics, just your opinion. If any believe you, why do they do so? Is it because they take Mike’s word for it? Is that the way Mike likes to operate? Or would they like the truth? This I say: If they want truth, your blog is not the place to find it.
You write: “His contention is that men like Kirk Cameron are false prophets because they use scare tactics when they share the Gospel. He contends that this doesn’t work.”
That’s right. A threat of a horrible literal fire for all eternity without end is the biggest lie one can possibly tell about God. It is a heinous character assassination, originating in paganism long before Christ. Yes, we are familiar with all the inane arguments, but you are not familiar with the Truth. You are painting pictures of Jesus Christ in the nude, with horns, hooves, tail and trident. That is exactly what you are doing. It is blasphemy!
“It’s in the Bible,” you say? You have no idea, so read what the Bible really has to say about this, your jewel of diabolical doctrines: The Restitution of All Things.
You continue: “I had to stop there and ask God for help. Then it came to me, what was troubling me was that the Holy Spirit was showing me clearly that this person was part of the Compromised Church and was defending it’s man-oriented non-gospel while attacking the genuine Gospel.”
You heard from your own deceitful, indoctrinated heart, my friend. Like I said, God does not speak to you. And I can guarantee you that if you take the time and trouble to read our testimonies in Christ and our doctrine, there is no way you will find compromise. You, Mike, are a lying, prating fool, who shoots first and doesn’t even ask questions later. You don’t care. You have no use for fact or truth whatsoever, least of all for the One Who laid down His life for you.
You write: “Another indicator is that false teachers and preachers will lead their followers to worship other gods. The Compromised Church worships another Jesus, not the Biblical Jesus. They have created their god in their own image.”
Wow! Guess who? You are zealous, but as was Saul of Tarsus before his conversion, except that he had more knowledge than do you. Will you also seek to kill us, as Calvin sought to and succeeded in murdering Servetus and destroying Castellion? You may try, but you will not succeed, because while Calvin was given to overcome the saints, this time it is not so. Now we, the saints, being the Lord’s mouthpiece and representation, will put away the seed of the serpent, which seed you are. This is the Lord’s Day, a great day for the righteous, but a day of wrath for you, the wicked.
We speak and teach of healing, of spiritual gifts, of miracles, of deliverance, of forsaking all for Him, and not only do we speak, we experience, but you denounce those very things and then say this:
“When the gospel is presented as the social gospel or health, wealth and prosperity, or is robbed of all of its supernatural power then those doing this have proved themselves to be false teachers and preachers.”
Mike, surely you are a liar and a hypocrite. Again, read The True Marks of a Cult, all of you that read this, and tell us where you stand with that checklist, which is not one of opinion, neither is it swimming in carnal subjectivity, as are all other cult analysis guidelines we have seen, but it is based squarely in Scripture, pointing to the lives, examples, and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ and His disciples.
Of Paul’s letter, you evilly surmise, “Also, did you notice the threats and the tactic of attempting to generate fear?”
Those are the perceptions of a wicked mind, blinded by sin and pride, Mike. There is no such thing in that letter but the Truth. However, we understand that you would be afraid of the Truth because Light exposes darkness, and that, my friend, is why what we speak stings you, not because it was from the enemy:
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34 MKJV).
Quoting your friend, another Paul:
“A man may preach like an apostle, pray like an angel—and yet may have the heart of a devil!”
Think about it, Mike. Though I see no apostolic preaching with you or prayer as an angel, the latter is certainly true. We know with whom we deal.
Another quote: “As many go to heaven with the fear of hell in their hearts— so many go to hell with the name of Christ in their mouths!”
You dwell in Hell even now with His Name in your mouth, but those who are in Heaven along with us have no fear whatsoever of Satan’s lies. We fear God and love Him because He has given us to love Him. If you experienced His love and new birth, there is no way that you or your deceived friend could begin to speak those vile words expressed in the first line.
The second line is not quite accurate either. You are in Hell, that state of darkness, deception and torment, and we know that unless God grants you repentance, there is more of that to come for you and your sycophantic friends, who also seek flattery and praise. That is why we speak – to warn and give you notice of your state and destiny.
Is Hell a literal fire? It is just like the seven-headed beast that is thrown into the lake of fire, along with Hell and Death, and so many other symbolisms in Scripture.
Is Jesus a literal bleating lamb with hooves and wool? But you are carnal, stupid, and full of all contradiction, teaching lies. We will prove it to you as you read our papers, given us of God, the Resurrected Lord Jesus Christ.
Reply to other postings:
I will now answer your commenting friends and partners in crime, starting with Josh Parker:
Josh Parker‘s posting:
“Oh goodie. This is give me a chance to share my own testimony. If I may do so, Mike, can I recommend an older article on your website which I wrote because of my own experiences with suffering.
I have a lifelong disease as well. I have suffered the same reproach and accusations from those who claim that all affliction, hardship, or sickness is a result of rebellion. They will also doubt that you have submitted completely or that you lack faith. They neither do not know long-suffering, what crucifies our carnal nature, nor the spiritual benefit that comes with enduring those afflictions. God cannot be taken to court when we plead with him to heal us, and he doesn’t . He wounds, he bruises, and heals.. But only according to his will– not ours. Those who believe that all sickness is a result of sin only bring the wrath of God upon themselves. Just read Job. Job’s friends were all saying that if Job was righteous, then God would not allow such horrible things to happen him. For their ignorance, God’s wrath was kindled against them. Just read verse 42:7. People who reject struggle and hardship never get rid of their dross. They neither submit to God’s sovereignty, they are idolaters, and they are of the flesh. Woe to them.”
My answer: Josh, read God Heals Today, His Way and learn something for good. You will learn that we are not guilty of your charges, and you are in error about Job and other matters. You say, “Suffering is the mark of a Christian.’” That can be true, but sickness and disease are not – that is a lie from the prince of darkness to destroy you. Jesus Christ came to heal, not the opposite. Read the article I offer you. You are quite spiritually proud of your disease. There is nothing to be proud of. Job wasn’t. And David spoke of affliction, but not disease.
Paula, you pity the wicked and condemn the righteous. So do you care to elaborate Scripturally on our paper, or are you also given to irresponsible commentary and criticism? You people display the true marks of the accuser.
LaVrai, there is no pretense with us. We are servants of the Lord Jesus Christ, here to fulfill Enoch’s words as Jude recorded. Can you judge the Christians to whom you refer?
Anger is there but only for people in wickedness, just as it was with Jesus Christ – links are mentioned in my letter to Mike Ratliff. You have a false faith and your confessed defeat is a sure mark of it. Read Diabolical Doctrine: It’s Impossible Not to Sin.
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
Thanks my friend and I appreciate your counsel. I have been trying to help my friend, but I believe you are correct. It is time to sever this little ‘relationship.” Welcome to Possessing the Treasure.
My answer: Mike, is this an easy out? See my comment to LaVrai.
Pentecostals, again. They have received all those gifts that we apparently lack. Yup, fiery darts! I’ve been getting a lot of them myself lately. I had to pray and read passages about praying for my enemies and abusers. Even though I am tempted to shoot back. I am just thankful he goes through others with those darts. It is very difficult isn’t it! Bad fruit. Unloving to a suffering person.”
My answer: Deborah, you are on the verge of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. While there are all kinds of Pentecostals who have nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, we are not among them. You too falsely accuse concerning our being unloving to suffering people. Are you saying you know our motives? If we speak the truth so that people may repent and be healed of their diseases, do you call that “unloving”?
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful” (Proverbs 27:6 MKJV).
“I have just been learning from a very good teacher who taught us about those fiery darts last year.”
My answer: Deborah, the day the Word of the Lord is a fiery dart of the enemy is the day you are found wanting in the balance. He has become your enemy because of your ways:
“With the pure You will show Yourself pure; and with the crooked You will show Yourself perverse” (Psalms 18:26 MKJV).
Lane, Kirk not only disagreed with Paul, but he also did not understand or care to understand what he was saying. Read our writings in The Restitution of All Things, particularly The Good News, The True, Scriptural Meanings of “Forever” and “Hell” and The SIGN: The Book of Jonah, the Book of God.
No true teacher from God preaches eternal torment with a literal fire. It is putrid, blasphemous, unScriptural nonsense, and we prove it. However, if you wish to follow the prince of this world, interpreting Scripture his way and slandering God, go for it. He’ll deal with you as is needed.
Jordan, so proverbs frighten you? Are you saying that only Solomon was permitted to write and to speak wisdom? What does that say for you? Are you saying Solomon’s knowledge was secret or that there is no such thing as revelation? Plainly, you don’t have the testimony of Jesus Christ:
“And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10 MKJV).
Why should you think that the history and the doctrine of Mystery, Babylon the Great, the false church, the bride of Satan, is “true”? As for cults, try reading something worthwhile: The True Marks of a Cult. (By the way, nobody – not one – has been able to argue against the validity of those marks.)
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
Thanks brother! Reading those responses from Kirk was quite edifying. What I was amazed at in my own struggle with this person was how deep the spiritual deception is within his ‘attacks.’ It is amazing standing outside of this and looking in how clear it is that this man is deep in heresy.
Thanks again brother!
My answer: Mike, really? Yet you can never say how. Why is that? And what is “edification”? Strengthening the hands of the wicked is often called edification too. Is that good?
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
Here is a link to the MKJV: http://www.olivetree.com/store/product.php?productid=16625
Yes, the enemy is very articulate. This is why we must be immersed in the Bible and know it deeply.
My answer: Mike, let’s try your knowledge publicly. We will see that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Mind of Christ or the Lord’s interpretation of Scripture.
“They claim that God speaks to them directly and gives them a word for another person.(false prophets) Paul claims that Jesus actually came down and showed himself to him. Yes, I do believe they are very deceived.”
My answer: Deborah, yes, we do indeed declare that God speaks to those who are truly His sons and daughters. The unbelieving do not know that because they do not have Him as Father, and so they call us false!
I marvel that you people can name the Lord’s Name and condemn the living reality of hearing the Lord’s Voice. After all, the entire Scriptural testimony is about believers hearing His Voice. You would have no Bible if that were not so.
And tell me, where do you find that we are not to hear His Voice today? Show me – don’t give me the lies of men who speak of a “closed canon” and all that rot. Nowhere will they be able to substantiate those lies in Scripture because the Scriptures are the Truth of God and not lies of men.
Again, show me, any of you. Meanwhile, read these Diabolical Doctrines:
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit Are Not for Today
There Are No Prophets or Apostles Today
And especially Believers No Longer Hear God’s Voice
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
“Yes, Deb, very deceived!”
My answer: Oh yes, Mike, so deceived.
Jen Elslager‘s posting:
“Here’s a lovely comment written to me via email from Paul Cohen’s cohort, Victor, after I told him that it saddened me that he would stoop so low as to attack Lisa for her illness:
‘Why should you be sad that I should stoop down from God’s throne to tell you your sins to deliver you from them? Is it because you prefer to remain in your sins? As to your prayers, they are nowhere near the throne of God. They have no entrance to God, seeing they are abominable to Him. We know this because we are one with Him in the heavenlies, even as He promised…’
Now they are also coming at me because they know that I have Crohn’s disease, and they say that it is God’s wrath being poured out on me. People like this don’t really hurt me at all, because I know how wrong and deluded they are with a sense of their own self-importance.
However, it does inspire me to pray for them and for anyone who would be deceived into their way of thinking.”
My answer: Jen, “coming at you”? If so, for good and not for evil. All our letters with you are posted for everyone to read. All of you who oppose the Truth perish, and there is only one reason why we speak, and that is to deliver you from destruction, case closed. Yet those who need deliverance and healing most fight against themselves. It is a marvel.
Josh Parker‘s posting:
I often think of Word of Faith when I hear about those people. They magnify themselves in their own hearts. That is typical of a false Christ. They believe that they are God’s right hand man. You and I are inferior to them in their eyes.”
My answer: Josh, you talk a lot but have nothing to say. “Word of Faith” is abominable to God, and those like Hagin, Roberts, Copeland and Dollar are star servants of the Devil. We have nothing to do with them.
You speak lies, and if you were to responsibly examine what we teach, and were able to suddenly understand, you would have to hang your head in shame. Obviously, you need your consequences and they will not be removed. Indeed, by your lips you destroy yourself, adding sin to sin, as do you all.
“SHEW-WEE!! I go outside for a day and look what happens when I return to read my favorite blog site!! Jesus said we will be persecuted and hated because of Him. He’s right. We listened to a sermon by Dr. James Boice today and he said that 95 to 90% of the ‘church’ out there today is arminian and none of them teach or preach it rightly. Almost no real reformed teaching going on anywhere. So I guess we are the 1 to 5% that have the truth. Its getting slimmer all the time out there!! Count ourselves very BLESSED because the Lord has given us the eye salve. Nice article on the ostrich Timely too! Brothers and sisters, I think we are in for a rough ride. Hang on, our Dad is in charge!”
My answer: Paul, we will see who your dad is, and just how right your deceptive reformed teaching is.
You are right – you are in for a rough ride; you don’t know how rough, but it will not be persecution by prophets who come to warn and deliver. It will be by those stronger and even more heartless than yourselves, if that is possible, and it is. God is able. The deceiver and the deceived, and the destroyer and the destroyed are all His.
Coram Deo‘s posting:
“That was an interesting read, Mike.
The distiction is crystal clear – you are a wretched sinner saved by unmerited grace, and Paul Cohen is self-righteousness personified.
We ought to set our hearts to earnest prayer for the soul of that poor, deluded, deceived man.”
My answer: Coram, weep for yourselves. Paul trusts solely in the Lord’s righteousness and you in your own.
Coram Deo‘s posting:
“It’s even worse than I thought.
If you stroll through Paul Cohen’s website and click on the link ‘exposing’ John Piper as a false teacher you’ll find that Mr. Cohen denies the existence of an eternal hell.
Uh…can you say heretical apostate?”
My answer: Coram, that is what you say. But have you ever examined the sure evidence of Scripture? An eternal hell as you know it is nothing more than man’s scare tactics. Christ died for all and will be fully successful, and not a loser like your Jesus that pretends to be a winner with 5% of the take while teaching all that Satan is the loser with 90%. What irony!
So, as the murderer Calvin burned the Lord’s faithful servant Servetus at the stake as a heretic, would you like to take a crack at it with us?
“well…what is there to say?…
it would seem paul c. is a unie…unie’s have went throught out blog land and the net, under my name, acting like me…
saying vulgar and nasty stuff….lies and attacks…
one must be careful to to slip like i did…and followed suit in vengence…striking back in anger …to my shame…”
My answer: Wordsseldomsaid, we are in the open, using our own names, are not vulgar or nasty, do not act like anyone else, and do not attack, unless it is the enemy with whom we do battle, like here, and we attack evil, not good. Your words, therefore, need to be even more seldom.
John Anderson – You came a fair bit closer to touching on the nature of false prophets than did Mike. I would expect that by your measure, many here would have to do a second take on us. However, if you had the necessary understanding, you would not be able to commend Mike for his false teaching. Ironically, you pay lip service to a false teacher as you speak.
Daniel Chew‘s posting:
“Mike, thanks for sharing. Truly such people are very much deceived. May God stregthen you to fight this battle and continue to run the race, for His name’s sake.”
My answer: Daniel, he is dead in the water. He cannot fight the Lord and win. Neither can you.
Lisa Nunley, yes, we have dealt with you and exposed your deception, provably so. We have the correspondence and it is posted in its entirety.
We also told Daniel the same, but he has no more understanding than any other child of darkness, a veritable Don Quixote, if we ever saw one.
“Venomous”? “Attacked”? You are all fearful, defeated, diseased, demented, defiled, and darkened in all your ways. Why will you not repent and come into the light? I will tell you why:
“And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God” (John 3:19-21 MKJV).
No, it is you who are venomous, are you not, Lisa? Had you believed and received what we had to say, you would be rejoicing. Instead, you writhe, and misery loves company. Yes, we have destroyed, but we have destroyed evil, not good. We have unmasked the enemy, and, by the grace of God, through no wisdom or righteousness of our own (oh, how we know that!), we will prevail until all has been wrested from the usurper’s hand, whose servants you all are.
We are here to tell you so. God is finished winking at all your UAMBE – uncastrated adult male bovine excrement, yes – bullshit. Burn me at the stake for it now:
“Those who make a man guilty by a word, and lay a trap for the reprover in the gate, and turn aside the just for a worthless thing” (Isaiah 29:21 MKJV).
“It’s ironical to see the sections ‘Falsehood Exposed’ and ‘False Teachers Exposed’ on that site, really.
Blessings and Shalom,
My answer: Isaiah, you don’t know.
Rick Frueh, so you are a pastor, are you? How well do you lead and feed your flock?
Tell me, what female is it that leads us? Try reading Diabolical Doctrine: Women Are Ministers of God in Spiritual Authority over Men.
You write, “Reading their testimonies they rely heavily on subjectivism, hearing God’s voice.”
Yes, Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, all the prophets and apostles, John the Baptist, Stephen, Agabus, all the saints recorded in Scripture, and Jesus Christ Himself, the Pattern Son, the Supreme Example, “relied heavily on subjectivism.” The higher you get in Satan’s kingdom, the greater the damned fools are you!
Are all marriages of God, Rick? If not, and one is in marriage against God’s will, is it not to be repented of like anything else, if possible, and especially directed of God?
And you say we shouldn’t use Old Testament “stories”? So Paul was wrong in saying to the Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 10:6-11 MKJV
(6) And these things were our examples, that we should not be lusters after evil, as they also lusted.
(7) Nor should we be idolaters, even as some of them, as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
(8) Nor let us commit fornication, as some of them fornicated, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
(9) Nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted Him and were destroyed by serpents.
(10) Nor murmur as some of them also murmured and were destroyed by the destroyer.
(11) And all these things happened to them as examples; and it is written for our warning on whom the ends of the world have come.
For those who hope to have more understanding than a presumptuous child of darkness, called a pastor, when reading the document he did not believe or understand, read Diabolical Doctrine: All Marriages Are of God.
And is it good enough for you that we merely mention Calvin? Why? Is the murderer John Calvin so holy to you that the mere mention of his name cleanses us of at least some sin? I assure you, we did more than mention him. Is that an automatic ticket to Heaven? Read and see for yourself: The Fruit of Cain Multiplied: The Murderer John Calvin.
And you are ready to speak? Open your mouths wide, you fools! Spread your ignorance everywhere for all to see and hear and be deceived. How you crave destruction! Therefore will it be harder for you who would presume to call yourselves “Christians,” much more teach in the Lord’s Name. Sodom will do better in judgment.
“It doesn’t even provide a reasonable platform for discussion,” you say? I think it has been anything but. We have opportunity to shine the light against the darkness and to disperse it.
Is it any wonder the Muslims come to slaughter? Is it any wonder disease and sickness are rampant?! Is it any wonder your family perishes?
Yes, Lord, I too was there where they now are! Many times have I asked if I am too hard, yet You have told me I am not nearly hard enough. You, Who cause women to eat their children in sieges, You, Who slay Ananias and Sapphira for lying, You, Who raze Jerusalem for their rejection of You, are You also hard?
Is it a hard thing for me to speak to these foolish, ignorant, wayward, self-destructive people, who constantly blaspheme Your Holy Name and lead others astray? They play their games, posture with one another, entertain themselves in Your Name, and love pleasure so much more than You!
Is it any wonder they and their families perish? I try to slap their faces to wake them from the toxic gases of falsehood and hypocrisy that lull them to death, but always it seems like I kick dead dogs and beat dead horses. They will not listen or believe, Lord! Liars are they all, guilty of the very things of which they accuse Your servants and sons.
I also answer this posting by you:
“jen – ‘Most will see through them and want nothing to do with their garbage,’
Yes, and thank God. But it isn’t these type of harsh and self righteous heretics that we must watch for, it is the seemingly humble, erudite, and appealling ones whose influence is much more pervasive.”
My answer: Indeed, God knows those who are His, and nothing will deter them as He draws them to His Son, Whom we are. As for your second statement, that is so very true.
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
It appears that you have been victimized by them. I pray that God has granted you repentance for your response to them and that you will see that it is a blessed place in the fires of persecution because there we are partakers of our Master’s ministry. The world doesn’t understand this. Be blessed my friend and I pray that God heals you and restores you.
My answer: All this flatterer can do is flatter more, in order to draw people to himself. Mike, evil surmisings? Who is wordsseldomsaid but another victim of your flattery? We do not know this person, but if she or he were to believe what we have to say, that one would be greatly blessed. Will you leave no stone unturned in your wickedness to fault us? Your judgment is surely just.
Mike Ratliff‘s posting:
My dear sister in Christ, I pray that you are doing well. Do not let these evil people discourage you. You are safe in the arms of Christ. This is just momentary light affliction. What awaits the faithful in eternity makes all of this worthwhile.
My answer: Mike, how disillusioned will you two be! We have warned.
Deborah and Mike Ratliff‘s postings:
Deborah: “I really believe I had a prideful and haughty spirit yesterday. Help me God! That heart sure does need a daily examination.”
Mike: “Watch it Deb, you are showing signs of a tender heart towards God. Yes, it sure does need that and none of us are immune from building idols to self…”
My answer: Deborah and Mike, it is still the old nature, and not the new. Therefore there is no tenderness towards God in it; quite the contrary.
Paul C‘s posting:
“Mike, excellent post. I especially like this statement:
‘I find it amazing how many ‘Christians’ are sucked into the clutches of false teachers and prophets. Why do they? They do not know their Bibles so they don’t recognize the counterfeit.’
Never has this been truer than now.
I don’t normally do this, but yesterday my pastor preached a great message called “Not Being Deceived” that falls in line with this post. You can view it here: http://www.themidnightcry.com (right on the home page).”
My answer: Paul C., why are people like you all deceived? It is not because you do not know your Bibles (though you certainly do not, and we can prove it without difficulty) but because you do not know the Lord. You are still in your sins. Read Victims and Perpetrators.
Jim, did you not know that Satan comes as an angel of light and his ministers as ministers of righteousness?
Unfortunately most of my family believes this garbage by one degree or another. My parents are the only ones that go to a basically good church. Independent Baptists. ( non-reformed)
I have an uncle that stopped taking his meds and he attends a Cornerstone ??? ( they get a word from God for another also)
Their are thousand of people buying in and I don’t know how many different names they come under. Vineyard, River of Life, Cornerstone?? Please, Come back soon Jesus.”
My answer: Deborah, Jesus Christ is here, in those who are His. For you, He has come as a thief, His Kingdom without observation even though I tell you He is present, and your judgment is just. As for your churches, read The True Marks of a Cult.
“jen, We ran into someone like that too. We had red flags up but wanted to be sure we were right before we stepped away from him. The knowledge he has is incredible! I guess they can be ‘crafty’. But the true colors finally showed through.”
My answer: Paul, likely the man is false, but he could just as easily be a genuine man of God, and how would you know?
Josh Parker‘s posting:
“I have been away almost a whole day, and what do I come back to see? 50 something comments? What do you think this is Mike, a christian blog or something? (tee hee hee)”
My answer: Anything but, Josh, anything but, and it is no laughing matter.
Josh Parker‘s posting:
I was onced seduced by that garbage. I have celiac disease. I was kicked out of a Bible study because I was not miraculously healed. They accused me of not submitting to the Lord, so they told me not to come back. Thank God for that because the Bible study was 40 Days of Purpose.
God does purpose calamities in our favor. You may feel the bumps and bruises along the way, but in the end you will be better off. People second guessed my salvation every time they found out that I was afflicted. It was horrifying to witness the ignorance in their hearts. But then again, it was very educational.”
My answer: Josh, I don’t know anything about the people to whom you refer, and I don’t trust your word or judgment, but I can tell you that we would not condemn you for not being miraculously healed, and we would not accuse you of not submitting to the Lord if you were not healed (if that is what you are saying they did).
Yes, God does purpose calamities in favor of those who are His, as He did with Job. We never said otherwise (read all our records), and we would not question your salvation because of affliction, nor have we done so with any other.
Having said that, regardless of your affliction, if you think to have salvation, you surely have another thought coming, and you won’t find salvation with anyone agreeing to the falsehood expressed by all here.
God has led us into healing, whether miraculously or by practical means. Jesus plainly promised that He came that we might have life and that we might have it abundantly. He said it was the thief that came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10). That is what is happening according to Scripture. The sooner you realize it, believe, and repent of your way of looking at things, the sooner you will receive goodness and not evil from Him.
The Lord plainly says, “No good thing will He withhold from them that walk uprightly.” By the sounds of your bitterness and cynicism, it won’t be soon in coming. Read Victims and Perpetrators and Holy Waters, though I don’t expect you will believe anything we say. You love man’s praise and flattery, like Mike’s and Jen’s, more than God.
Julie, are you judging after the appearance? Indeed, you are, and even boldly declare so. In so doing, you have condemned yourself:
“Do not judge according to sight, but judge righteous judgment. Then some of those from Jerusalem said, Is this not the one they seek to kill?” (John 7:24-25 MKJV)
Romans 2:1-9 MSG
(1) Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors.
(2) But God isn’t so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you’ve done.
(3) You didn’t think, did you, that just by pointing your finger at others you would distract God from seeing all your misdoings and from coming down on you hard?
(4) Or did you think that because He’s such a nice God, He’d let you off the hook? Better think this one through from the beginning. God is kind, but He’s not soft. In kindness He takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life-change.
(5) You’re not getting by with anything. Every refusal and avoidance of God adds fuel to the fire. The day is coming when it’s going to blaze hot and high, God’s fiery and righteous judgment.
(6) Make no mistake: In the end you get what’s coming to you–
(7) Real Life for those who work on God’s side,
(8) but to those who insist on getting their own way and take the path of least resistance, Fire!
(9) If you go against the grain, you get splinters, regardless of which neighborhood you’re from, what your parents taught you, what schools you attended.
No doubt, some will say these words apply to us. Yet the Lord has sent us to:
“Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back–a trumpet-blast shout! Tell My people what’s wrong with their lives, face My family Jacob with their sins! They’re busy, busy, busy at worship, and love studying all about Me. To all appearances they’re a nation of right-living people– law-abiding, God-honoring. They ask Me, ‘What’s the right thing to do?’ and love having Me on their side” (Isaiah 58:1-2 MSG).
But that is not what you are doing, is it, Julie?
Josh Parker‘s posting:
Good for you. You are taking your affliction as a servant. Everything you say is true. You also have a great longing for heaven, don’t you. Affliction (although unpleasant) rewards you with a broken heart, humility, forbearance, and respect for human life. Their is very little room for pride when we struggle to endure unwanted circumstances which are beyond our control. Taking our afflictions without complaint, not striving with God because of it is great gain. He understands our infirmities, he is there with us enduring them, and he is not far off (as some would lead us to believe). Gos is pleased with brokenness ,and those who are of the flesh cannot please him. Affliction is an undesirable, yet effective means of crucifying the ‘old man’ on a daily basis. Because of it, our physical weakness is spiritual gain.”
My answer: Josh, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful” (Proverbs 27:6 MKJV).
Jen Elslager‘s posting:
“I wish I could say that I always take it without complaint, but that would be a lie. I do try though. But it is the times of pain that drive you to the foot ot the throne of God. So all in all, it’s good.”
My answer: Jen, I do not see you at my feet, but I will. The Lord Jesus promised it:
“Behold, I give out of those of the synagogue of Satan, those saying themselves to be Jews and are not, but lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you” (Revelation 3:9 MKJV).
So you were offended when I spoke of being with the Lord on His throne?
“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame and have sat down with My Father in His throne” (Revelation 3:21 MKJV).
Josh Parker‘s posting:
Sorry that some take pleasure in making you a target of their reproach. Don’t let it shipwreck your faith. Those who lash out at you and accuse you of rebellion, a lack of faith, or a lack of obedience ….do not know the Lord. Let them be ashamed by their own attacks. God will deal with them accordingly.”
My answer: So, Josh, you are saying you know Jen’s heart? God knows yours and you will soon see if He approves or not. You do love being admired, included, depended upon, and important. We will see your end.
After this exchange, Mike posted two more entries on his blog.
Paul’s reply to Mike and commentators:
Mike, you are a great liar. This is not vacant opinion, like what you and your respondents offer on your blog, but verified fact. For example, after I challenged you to prove your claim that we preached a false gospel, and after Victor replied to you and those posting on your blog (which you did not post, and, therefore, no one else knew about our openness to discuss these matters), you published this false bravado:
“When we…rebuke him and his bunch in the name of Christ, he flees. I hope you noticed that they like to sneak attack us. It is never straight up and in public.”
It was all lies from the very beginning. We started out our conversation with you lying to us about not being involved in the discussion regarding Lisa Nunley. I have the letters, as do some others now, that prove this, so it is not a matter of opinion. If we remove your lies and voluminous opinions from the discussion, you have nothing to say. It has been all unsubstantiated untruths coming out of your mouth; why shouldn’t that be the case, when the nature of the liar is to lie? No surprises there.
Many lies are subtle, like this one:
“On Friday last I opened my email after dinner and a game of Scrabble with my wife to find that there were over 40 unmoderated comments on our post How to Detect a False Prophet.”
The implication here is that there was some great breech of etiquette, an egregious faux pas we committed by answering as many and more postings about us that appeared when we opened your blog. Are we not entitled to answer you and your friends? Should you not be willing to hear answers from those whom you castigate? You say we wish to dominate others, and to be the only voices heard, but you are the one acting that way, are you not? You are a great hypocrite, too.
You call Victor’s replies “prophecies.” Why? Victor did not say he was prophesying and did not preface his words with, “Thus says the Lord.” But this is the convenient way for you dismiss all he said, because you do not believe there is such a thing as prophecy or speaking from the Lord. So if you label what Victor says as “prophecy” – Voila! – according to your doctrine he speaks illegitimately. You absolve yourself of having to listen or to answer for yourself; you and your cronies are free to toss it all in the garbage. You lie to save your miserable, wretched lying carcass!
You seek to build the case that we speak from ourselves, and not according to the Scriptures. You imply that we have somewhere said that we are above the Scriptures, or that we supersede Them, which we have not said. In another place you make a great point of saying how much you are against straw man arguments, yet you avidly build one here. Do we react like you, complaining that we will refuse to talk to those who create false scenarios to censure us? Not at all. It is our pleasure to answer these false charges, setting the record straight by setting your straw man on fire by the Word of God in our mouths.
“I pray that you see that our source of truth must be God’s Word, not what some self-proclaimed prophet says is the truth.”
Our source of truth is Christ, the Word made flesh. The Bible makes this case as well. Paul writes:
“Their minds, indeed, were closed; and to this very day their minds are covered with the same veil as they read the books of the old covenant. The veil is removed only when a person is joined to Christ” (2 Corinthians 3:14 GNB).
Of these same Scriptures, Paul writes:
“All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living” (2 Timothy 3:16 GNB).
So we see that the Scriptures were opened to those joined to Christ, but were not open to those who were not in Christ. No doubt, those not joined to Christ thought the Scriptures were their source of truth, as did the Pharisees. Did they not think they believed, as did Saul of Tarsus, and that they served God by persecuting and killing His saints? Where did they get the idea they were serving God, if not from the Scriptures?
Jesus spoke to these same people as follows:
“You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life. And they are the ones witnessing of Me, and you will not come to Me that you might have life” (John 5:39-40 MKJV).
Surely had you been there, you would have called the real prophets “self-proclaimed,” because they spoke the Word of God live, in real time. How would you know a real prophet or the Lord Himself without your Bible telling you the words they should be speaking? Liar! Like your fathers you have the Bible, yet you still do not recognize the Lord; you persecute Him just as they did. No wonder you quote another liar, Calvin the murderer.
“Paul testifies that the Church is ‘built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets’ (Eph. 2:20). If the doctrine of the apostles and prophets is the foundation of the Church…. that doctrine, wheresoever it may be found, was certainly ascertained and sanctioned and antecedently to the Church, since, but for this, the Church herself never could have existed.” John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Chapter 7, Section 2.
Calvin speaks of his own church, the false one parading as the true, the same which is drunk with the blood of the saints. How do I know? Am I declaring myself a prophet with supraBiblical knowledge? No. I see Calvin is wrong according to the Bible, even from the very quote in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians that Calvin declares as the foundation of his faith. Here is the whole verse, which proves that what I say is true and what Calvin says is false. Paul was speaking of the called out ones being “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Ephesians 2:20 EMTV).
Jesus Christ Himself is the chief cornerstone. Not doctrines about Him, or words He said that were recorded in the Bible, but HIM, the living, resurrected Lord and God. As is the Head, so are His apostles and prophets on whom we are built, who are also not doctrines, but living members of His Body, even as we are:
“…you also, as living stones, are being built into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5 EMTV).
Calvin served at the altar of his doctrines, many of them false ones from Mystery, Babylon the Great. He had nothing to do with Christ. He was a Bibliolater of the first order, his words reflecting his idolatry and his acts reflecting his insecure and murderous spirit that lives on in his children like you, Mike.
You declare of your father’s teaching:
“Calvin shows us that the internal testimony of the Spirit is vital not only to theology in general but to doctrine in particular. The Church is subordinate to Scripture, not the other way round.”
Calvin, by not dividing the Scriptures correctly, shows a lack of the Spirit, not His Presence. Peter wrote, by inspiration and understanding of the Holy Spirit, that those (Calvin) who twisted Paul’s teachings, were the “the unlearned and unstable,” who also perverted the “rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16 MKJV).
The “internal testimony” Calvin heard, as is the one you hear, is from yourselves, the flesh and the devil. And how do you propose to hear the Voice of God, anyway, since you deny that He speaks to His children? Certainly He does not speak to you. A confounded liar you are, compounding your judgment by resisting the Truth!
“What does the Bible itself say about the Church’s certainty of Scripture being true?”
Those called by Christ do not doubt the veracity of Scripture. Only those who depend on their own understanding experience this doubt, and pump themselves up by reading the Scriptures as you do, affirming these things are true:
“I pray that as you read these passages that the Holy Spirit bore witness with your spirit that He is working within you to enable you to know God’s Word and thereby His truth as you read Sacred Scripture. This truth should cause us to cry ‘Abba Father!’”
We cry “Father!” because we are His sons. We have His Spirit:
“And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father” (Galatians 4:6 MKJV).
You cry to your idol, the Bible, calling it “God” and “Father,” though it is as deaf, dumb and blind as you are. It is but ink on paper. But “…our sufficiency is of God; Who also has made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive” (2 Corinthians 3:5-6 MKJV).
Victor did not accuse you of not knowing what a real Bible teacher is, he stated it as fact. We have proven it to be so, as I do here once again in this letter. So you have falsely accused Victor of accusation, one of your many ad hominem attacks you say you will not tolerate; hypocrite!
Where are your self-professed guidance, wisdom and discernment? Where is your sound rebuke? Where are you, coward? You wrote:
“I am also giving notice here that I consider any more of these emails and comments to be completely unwelcome so please pass on to both Paul and Victor that we will no longer engage in any fruitless ‘discussions.’”
No discussion is exactly right, liar, but complaint-fests about us are another story. Just after these words you wrote another entry crying about being stung by yellowjackets, us, while you claim to be innocent. You poor martyr! You are just like the apostle Paul, who really could not face talking to those unbelieving Jews, could he? He did not know what to say or how to handle them, did he? And did he ever complain about how unfair and unkind they were, yes, and how false! He warned everyone that would listen, right, and flattered those that agreed with him, building up his self-image and confidence, right? WRONG!
Paul did not run away to hide among a sycophantic crowd, but testified to the Jews even after they stoned, whipped, and beat him with rods. You resemble Calvin, your father, who continued to revile Servetus after he had him put to death. You put us to death, so to speak, shutting us out of any discussion, and then continued to speak against us with your venomous slanders and lies.
You write in this next blog entry:
“Victor, this is addressed to you. You try to come across as if you are right at the throne of God and know all things.”
Victor doesn’t try to come across that way; he does come across that way because he is at the throne of God. So am I, and so are all those who overcome in Christ:
“He that overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne” (Revelation 3:21 EMTV).
We come across as knowing all things, because, being in Him and having His Mind, we do; the Bible you worship says so:
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things” (1 John 2:20 EMTV).
You go on:
“You try to make people believe you are the only true prophet alive on planet Earth today. Well, that is really sad since all you push are the works of other heretics while using a paraphrase of the Bible.”
Is that so, liar? Show us just what “other” heretics’ works we are pushing on our website. As for using a paraphrase, what are you talking about? The occasional use of The Message? That is quite offensive to Bibliolaters, isn’t it? Must not ever paraphrase, must always speak in full Biblical sentences whenever we speak of the Scriptures, making sure to say the exact same words in the exact same sequence. Hypocrites! You quote Calvin and others and do enough of your own explaining of the Scriptures but how dare anyone paraphrase Them! Fools! Well does Peterson report what the Lord said of you to your fathers:
“You’re hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned. You’re hopeless! What arrogant stupidity! You say, ‘If someone makes a promise with his fingers crossed, that’s nothing; but if he swears with his hand on the Bible, that’s serious.’ What ignorance! Does the leather on the Bible carry more weight than the skin on your hands? And what about this piece of trivia: ‘If you shake hands on a promise, that’s nothing; but if you raise your hand that God is your witness, that’s serious’? What ridiculous hairsplitting! What difference does it make whether you shake hands or raise hands? A promise is a promise. What difference does it make if you make your promise inside or outside a house of worship? A promise is a promise. God is present, watching and holding you to account regardless” (Matthew 23:15-20 MSG).
Yes, God is indeed holding you to account for your lies and loose words.
This Peterson paraphrase is also apt:
“You have your heads in your Bibles constantly because you think you’ll find eternal life there. But you miss the forest for the trees. These Scriptures are all about Me! And here I am, standing right before you, and you aren’t willing to receive from Me the life you say you want” (John 5:39-40 MSG).
Blind liars! How can you see what is in the Scriptures when you do not receive the One about Whom they speak?
“Where is your scriptural proof Victor? I didn’t see any. Also, you are always going after other’s motives.”
“You may think everything you do is right, but the LORD judges your motives” (Proverbs 16:2 GNB).
You try to create the appearance of godliness, but God sees through the mockery, Mike, and tells you the truth. Here is more of your phony posturing:
“Everyone that comes here now knows who you are and no one is afraid of you. You can rant and rave and send out emails with all of your hateful remarks, but no one is listening and no one is coming to your site to be deceived.”
If you were not afraid you would not block us from commenting. You are the one ranting and raving on your blog. Is no one listening to us? I do not believe that, and neither do you. You cannot help but listen, because what we are telling you is the Truth. Who can resist God?
There are those who are sincere in their doctrine, even though quite in error. We have come to see you as different from them. We see you as a deliberate charlatan, one set on glorifying himself, first deceiving yourself, your own first victim, persuading people to think you have spirituality of value. You have nothing, Mike, though you deceive fools who also have no heart for the Lord Jesus Christ.
And while you think God is not God or does not see, or one way or another you will escape, we can guarantee you, by the knowledge, experience, and fellowship we have in Him, and by the testimony of the Scriptures, that your day approaches, and you will not escape. All will see your end. Those genuinely after the Lord and Truth will repent and be ashamed, but the wicked will continue in their religious unbelief and folly as though nothing happened, following you to their own destruction. We go on record with those words.
These same words also go for your partner, Daniel Chew, a vile, brutish fellow like you, the difference being that he seems to more believe what he is saying. Yet, he will receive the same because, with you, he reviles the Lord and has vilely blasphemed.
Another blogger, Deborah from Discerning the World, wrote the following to Paul:
Just by the by, I emailed Mike and asked him if he really knew what Lisa did? And I subsequently told him my thoughts. He came back to me saying that he agreed and at the time only took Lisa’s word for what had happened – not having read everything in it’s entirity – he too jumped to conclusions. He is very upset with Lisa. He was deceived by Lisa just as everyone else STILL is. He ended up being a ‘pawn’ in Lisa’s nasty game and the consequences of his words and actions will surely haunt him. I have left the FINAL decision as to what he needs to do to rectify this problem in his hands – he can continue to ignore it or fix it. Only time will tell if he truly stands for truth or not. Mike can end this just as easily as it started by rebuking Lisa for her wicked ways, but will he do that? I can only pray he does.