Making Sport of Holy Things
The following paper will be of interest
and pertinence to you for possibly several reasons among many. It has
been our great honor to discern and identify the error and spirit of
John Calvin, whose rule is yet propagated in the hearts of men with evil
consequences for all. The Lord Jesus Christ has visited us with the Light
of His countenance to put an end to this evil, justifying His servants
whom Calvin murdered, and His Name in the sight of all.
The Fruit of Cain Multiplied: The Murderer John Calvin [PDF
Show me whom you follow, and I will know what manner of person you are
or will become. If you do not know whom you are following, don’t
you think it is time to find out how and where you are being led? Do
you think you will altogether escape the consequences because ignorant?
Think again. You already suffer them.
John Calvin was one of the most vicious of wolves ever to pose as a
lamb of God. His supremely self-righteous spirit lives on in those who
lionize and follow him, even unbeknownst to themselves. Truly, “that
which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.”
I hope this was written in the context of humor. Rather funny, however,
3/19/08 9:33 AM
Sara Schmidt said...
What kind of person finds murder funny? I do not even think John
Calvin, as wicked as he was to persecute the saints of God
in his false profession of Christ, was
laughing about it.
But as the apostle prophesied, things would get worse until we had such
as you, mockers who cause the heathen to blaspheme by their light and
treacherous ways, making sport of the things of God:
“But you, my loved ones, keep in memory the words which were said
before by the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, How they said to you,
In the last days there will be men who, guided by their evil desires,
will make sport of holy things” (Jude 1:17-18 BBE).
3/19/08 1:35 PM
Brother Slawson said...
I would like to officially “amen” the belief that murder
is not funny.
3/19/08 2:05 PM
Lee Shelton IV said...
Paul and Victor, it sounds like you’re on a mission, seeking
out Calvinist sites to condemn. If that is indeed your mission, you
at least want to
read up a little on the subject. As C. H. Spurgeon said, Calvinism
is but a nickname for the doctrines of grace found in scripture. It
that we idolize or follow John Calvin.
Besides, why would care? You believe that all men will be saved anyway.
Saved from what? What danger am I in if I remain a Calvinist?
Smithadam, I’m assuming that you were referring to the actual
post and not Paul and Victor’s comment. And yes, it’s from
a satirical site -- a very funny satirical site. You’ll want to
check it out frequently.
Brother Slawson, I officially “amen” your “amen” that
murder is not funny -- unless, of course, we’re talking about squirrels.
Those filthy creatures deserve to die.
3/19/08 7:45 PM
Brother Slawson said...
I can feel your pain with the squirrels. I had one or two that lived
on the edge of my attic (above our bedroom) for about 2 years.
I sold the house to
my parents... and within a year...
::making motion of pointer finger passing in front of my neck::
3/19/08 9:10 PM
Lee Shelton IV said...
You lost both parents to squirrels?! I am so sorry.
3/19/08 10:00 PM
Well... that could be implied.
To be clear... not the parents... the squirrels...
3/20/08 6:46 AM
Arthur Sido said...
Lee, if you dare go check out the rest of their website. Apparently
it is wicked and sinful for married couples to share a bed when
sleeping, or even the same
house. I immediately kicked my wife out to the barn when I read that.
3/20/08 8:42 AM
Lee Shelton IV said...
Yeah. The very thought that there are some sick, twisted married folks
out there who don’t consider sex to be a “burdensome carnal policy” and
are actually attracted to each other makes my skin crawl. Hey, if God had really
wanted the relationship between man and wife to be intimate, he wouldn’t
have given us the strict abstinence teachings in the Song of
3/20/08 9:23 AM
Arthur Sido said...
Apparently what I learned in elementary school is true, girls
DO have cooties.
3/20/08 4:12 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Lee, I will start with your last entry first. The writing
Arthur brought to your attention doesn’t call
sex a “burdensome carnal policy,” or
anything remotely similar to that. Why don’t
you guys first try reading what you criticize?
it is to open your
you don’t know
what you’re talking about! How great an
enmity you have for Truth, that you prefer to
rather than to
and know It!
Yet you claim to love Him. What liars!
On your first response to our writing you say, citing our confession
of Christ’s totally efficacious sacrifice, that because everyone
will come to know God, bowing the knee to, and confessing Jesus Christ
as Lord, you now can do whatever you please, such as following the false
ways and teachings of murderers.
What a wicked fool you confess yourself to be, one who has no heart
whatsoever for truth and righteousness! You surely need to fully experience
the undesirable fruits of your ways, brought to you in the corrective
wisdom and judgment of God, before you will ever come to the place of
bowing your knee and confessing Him as Lord. Now all He can say of you
is that He has never known you, regardless of your vain profession.
In your lightness you reveal your true colors, not that you or your
companions will see them, because your very ways and attitudes blind
you to Reality.
You use corrupt men, like Spurgeon, rather than Christ, as your measure
of truth and godliness. Spurgeon was a religious fool, a verbose, bloated
manpleaser and self-glorifier, who praised Augustine, the Maryolater,
and Calvin, the murderer.
Here is some of his antiChrist nonsense, which you also claim as your
Spurgeon: “If the doctrine be true, that
He [Jesus] died for all
men, then He died for some who were in hell before He came into this
world, for doubtless there were even then myriads there who had been
cast away because of their sins.”
And that is precisely what the Scriptures preach:
“For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust,
that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh,
but made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and preached
to the spirits in prison, to disobeying ones, when once the long-suffering of
God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared (in
which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water)” (1
Peter 3:18-20 MKJV).
Spurgeon continues in his self-important bombast:
“To imagine for a moment that He was the
Substitute for all the sons of men, and that God, having first punished
the Substitute, afterwards
punished the sinners themselves, seems to conflict with all my
ideas of Divine justice. That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction
for the sins of all men, and that afterwards some of those very men should
be punished for the sins for which Christ had already atoned, appears
to me to be the most monstrous iniquity that could ever have been imputed
to Saturn, to Janus, to the goddess of the Thugs, or to the most diabolical
What confusion! The Word of God says that where sin has abounded, grace
abounds more. What is the redemptive power of Christ all about, if not
to deliver souls from Hell, whether in this life or the next? As for
suffering for your sins, that happens to you whether you are a believer
“But according to your hardness and your impenitent heart, do
you treasure up wrath for yourself in a day of wrath and revelation of
the righteous judgment of God, Who will render to each according
to his works; indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for
glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life. But to those
who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness,
will be anger and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man
who has worked out evil; of the Jew [believer] first, and also
of the Greek [unbeliever]” (Romans 2:5-9 MKJV).
“No, each person will pay for his own sin. You eat green apples,
you’re the one who gets sick” (Jeremiah 31:30 MSG).
“The soul that sins, it shall die.... But when the righteous turns
from his righteousness and does injustice, and does according to all
the abominations that the wicked do, shall he live? All his righteousness
that he has done shall not be remembered; in his trespass that he has
trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die” (Ezekiel
You continue to reap the fruits of your sin even after you repent. If
you plant a field of weeds, you may repent of planting, but the crop
will still come up all the same. Yes, God will give the grace and power
to those who walk in His righteousness to deal with it, now having Life
in Him, but Spurgeon has no knowledge or profession of His Life manifesting
godly wisdom in anything he says. It is all rhetorical flourishes and
false piety based on a false “Christ.”
You say you do not follow John
Calvin. Follow him or not, you justify
and company with him. For this reason you are splitting hairs. Here is
what Spurgeon said:
“I ask the man who dares to say that Calvinism
is a licentious religion, what he thinks of the character of Augustine,
or Calvin, or
Whitefield, who in successive ages were the great exponents of the system
As I pointed out in my paper, the fruits of Calvin show very clearly
that he lacked moral restraint. His religion was lawless, with himself
as the law that justified him to persecute and kill the saints of God.
A man full of hate for God, not the love of God. Anything he taught came
from a carnal, devilish nature, and not from Jesus Christ. Christ has
no fellowship with sinners and devils.
The one walking in murderous hatred knows nothing of the grace of God.
You possess nothing more than your mentors do, which is to say, nothing.
Arthur, does God not require more from you than juvenile remarks without
substance or truth? Or have you only jumped out of the frying pan into
the fire, a sinner now claiming the throne of God, with rights and privileges
above Christ that entitle you to mock His brethren who speak sincerely
and provide you with ample Scriptural evidence and reason for what they
Where did we say that women are to be treated as “cooties” and
relegated to sleeping in the barn? Why do you make things up, entertaining
yourself and those in darkness with such absurdities? What sin has brought
you into such hostility with all that is decent and godly?
The Lord comes, only to find mockers in the last day, even as His servant
Paul prophesied. These scoffers (light and vain persons – Judges
9:4) laugh and entertain one another with what they see as wit and clever
humor, but the One Who died for them does not see things that way, any
more than He laughed on the cross. If they were in His Spirit and His
in them, they would be pious, sober, sincere, exhibiting not the vile
spirit of mocking clowns and devils, but the Spirit of Christ. So, He
has come down to see if these things are true, of which He has heard,
and if so (and they are) He must visit their ways on them. Will we then
see them laughing and scornful, as the people of Sodom?
“And it’s trouble ahead if you’re satisfied with yourself.
Your self will not satisfy you for long. And it’s trouble ahead
if you think life’s all fun and games. There’s suffering
to be met, and you’re going to meet it. There’s trouble ahead
when you live only for the approval of others, saying what flatters them,
doing what indulges them. Popularity contests are not truth contests--look
how many scoundrel preachers were approved by your ancestors! Your task
is to be true, not popular” (Luke 6:25-26 MSG).
Do these people indeed think My speech is solely contained in a book,
howbeit the Book I have written for My sons and daughters, and that I
cannot speak as I please, when I please, to whom I please?
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a fire pot; and all
the proud, and every doer of wickedness, shall be chaff. And the coming
day will set them ablaze, says the LORD of Hosts, which will not leave
root or branches to them. But to you who fear My Name, the Sun of Righteousness
shall arise, and healing will be on His wings. And you shall go out and
frisk like calves of the stall. And you shall trample the wicked, for
they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day which I am
preparing, says the LORD of Hosts. Remember the Law of Moses My servant,
which I commanded to him in Horeb for all Israel, the statutes and judgments.
Behold, I am sending you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the
great and dreadful day of the LORD. And he shall turn the heart of the
fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, that
I not come and strike the earth with utter destruction” (Malachi
“But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable in that day
for Sodom than for that city” (Luke 10:12 MKJV).
3/22/08 1:19 PM
Arthur Sido said...
Boys, we mock that which is worthy of being mocked. For example (from
your webpage, “The Marriage Bed Undefiled”):
Who says a man and a wife should share the same
bed incessantly? Who says they should not have separate beds or rooms
or even houses, and
come together for relations only at appropriate times? Who says they
should be disturbed every night by one another’s tossing and turning,
pulling covers, snoring, bad breath, getting up for the bathroom, passing
gas, and so forth? Who says they should be tempted with each other by
being in the same bed when they may be called to abstinence for prayer
and fasting for a time, or when the woman is at her time of the month?
Who says a man and wife should play with fire? I have said who says,
and will say it again, more specifically.
The horrors of bad breath and passing gas! If you are going to write
silly stuff like that, you are going to be mocked. Like every false teacher
who claims to be the only one around who can properly interpret God’s
Word, you expose yourselves as charlatans and false prophets in the same
lineage as Joseph Smith and David Koresh. Not only that, but if you publish
the following on your webpage:
Christians have fallen for this ancient, burdensome carnal policy.
Then don’t cry foul when we reference it and then flat out lie
about it like you did here: The writing Arthur
brought to your attention does not call sex a “burdensome carnal
Why don’t you try reading your own diatribes before claiming to
See, this is why I have comment moderation on my blog.
3/22/08 3:21 PM
Josh Gelatt said...
Oddly, you guys condemn those who follow Spurgeon & Calvin and claim
that you, by contrast, only follow Christ.
Yet, you teach and preach. You distribute your teachings to others and
try to get others to listen to you.
So.......are the people who are listening to you “following” you,
or are they following Christ?
Certainly you would say that YOU, as opposed to Calvin, accurately teach
Christ’s message. But therein lies the problem: it is YOU that
is making that claim.
Having searched and studied the scriptures for many years, including
much work in the original languages, I can honestly say I cannot think
of a teacher more faithful to the message of Christ than John Calvin.
Certainly not perfect, and he was a product of his times (as we are).
His involvement with the execution of the heretic Severtus was indeed
a black mark in his life (but look at the black marks in the life of
Moses, Abraham, Jacob, David, Peter, Thomas, etc). Some Biblical characters,
like David, knew and repented of their sin. Others, like Jacob, never
seemed to recognize their sin (and honestly, your ranting about this
demonstrates you don’t even know the historical record of what
occured. Calvin’s role was real, but it was also minor. The city
council, who hated Calvin, condemned Severtus. Calvin did not. Calvin
actually sought to provide a less painful death sentence, but the city
council ignored Calvin and burned Severtus).
Is Calvin’s harsh action towards a known and universally condemned
heretic so much different than the spirit of spiritual pride that you
have exhibited in this forum?
Let he who is without sin caste the first stone.
3/22/08 4:12 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Arthur, you still cannot read properly. The burdensome policy is not
sex, but to be forced by worldly conventions and notions to share
a single bed with
another adult all your married years. Obviously you cannot show that
we say otherwise. So what is your problem? A one-track mind? Certainly
is decidedly wrong when you cannot make such simple distinctions.
You are defiling the marriage bed, because you worship it. As an idolater,
everything you touch and do is unclean. I can see why you screen your
blog, lest anyone shines some Light on your darkness. That is the perfectly
Calvin thing to do.
And labeling others who offer practical advice, supported by Scripture,
by comparing us to David Koresh and Joseph Smith, makes you sound like
3/22/08 7:10 PM
Lee Shelton IV said...
So, Paul, if one finds inspiration in the “proverbs” posted
on your site, will you accuse that person of following someone other
Or were those proverbs from God? And if so, does that mean they are on
par with scripture?
3/22/08 7:35 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Josh, you are in error. We never said one should not follow true
men of God. Have you red my testimony? In it I describe how
the Lord sent Victor
in Israel in 1979, whom I followed in obeying the Word of God
that he spoke to me. That is how people are brought into obedience,
by following the
shepherds sent by the Shepherd.
“Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ” (1
Corinthians 11:1 KJV).
You presume to have been a student of the Bible for many years, but
do not know such an elementary thing?
We are not surprised, however, because that is the way it is for those
who are ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the Truth, the
Lord Jesus Christ.
We do tell those who have ears to hear not to follow false prophets
(wolves like Calvin and Spurgeon), just as the Lord Jesus and Paul the
apostle warned. We are not alarmed or unaware that there are those like
you who do not have ears to hear, because the Lord has told us that He
sends His angels to gather the false Christians (tares), those things
that offend and them that do iniquity, to be purged in His fires. How
greatly needed are those!
The religious of His days in the flesh said the same thing to the Lord
as you say to us, and here is how He answered them:
“If anyone desires to do His will, he shall know of the doctrine,
whether it is of God, or I speak from Myself” (John 7:17 MKJV).
So what that you know Greek and Hebrew? The Pharisees knew the language
of the Bible, and they were well familiar with the texts, but they still
crucified the Christ. You demonstrate the same confidence in your knowledge
and the letter, which is not surprising because the children do carry
the same traits as their fathers.
You confess rightly that you are a product of your times, being a child
of this wicked world. The children of God are not of this world, as Jesus
“And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You
are of this world; I am not of this world” (John 8:23 MKJV).
“I have given them Your Word, and the world has hated them because
they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world” (John
You are certainly right that you and Calvin are products of this world.
Your argument about the historical record reveals nothing I had not
noted and answered in the writing. It is all a matter of public record.
Just one statement from Calvin, years after the murder, blows away your
protests of his innocence:
“Honor, glory, and riches shall be the reward
of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those
scoundrels, who stir
up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated,
as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard.”
If Calvin was lying here, and had not condemned Servetus as you say,
then he is still a murderer in addition to being a liar, because he condoned
the murder of a human being, in this case a brother of the Lord, no less:
“David said to him, Your blood be on your head; for your mouth
has testified against you, saying, I have slain the LORD’s anointed” (2
Samuel 1:16 HNV).
Jesus Christ foretold of people such as you:
“They shall put you out of the synagogue. But an hour is coming
that everyone who kills you will think that he bears God service. And
they will do these things to you because they have not known the Father
nor Me” (John 16:2-3 MKJV).
The blood of the saints is also on your hands. Of course you do not
see or understand these things, and neither does Lee, because that is
the nature of the children of darkness. But Christ knows where you are
and where you stand:
“But outside are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators,
and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and makes
a lie” (Revelation 22:15 MKJV).
And now you have been told.
Lee, as for the proverbs, all inspired speaking is of God, if inspired
of the Spirit of God, of course. And how would you know the difference
between what is of God and what is not, if you are prepared to not only
follow a wolf, but to kill for him?
3/23/08 11:16 AM
Lee Shelton IV said...
Paul, are you claiming that the writings on your site are inspired
as the scriptures are inspired? What evidence do you have to
support that? Are they as authoritative
as the Bible? Pride and condescension seem to be typical of the writings
on your site.
3/23/08 7:18 PM
Josh Gelatt said...
I am to understand that you believe Severtus is a true and faithful
servant of Christ. You refer to him as a “brother of the Lord”.
As you are aware, Severtus denied the Trinity. If you count him a brother,
then you have removed yourself from the historic faith, and my discussion
with you is over (I will not waste my time with apostates). I hope I
have misunderstood you, truly I do.
As Arthur stated, it is nice to be put in the same company as Calvin
and Spurgeon--though I doubt I will receive nearly as many jewels in
my crown as those faithful servants.
As for the accusation that I am a child of this wicked world, I completely
agree. I am aware of my utter sinfulness. I am to be despised and rejected
because I am utterly worthless before our glorious Lord. I am glad you
so clearly see my unworth, for only then does the glory of God shine.
To him alone be the glory.
3/23/08 8:06 PM
Arthur Sido said...
So I am defiling the marriage bed by sleeping in the same bed as my
wife? Granted we do have 8 kids, I guess that is the product
of my one-track mind. And I
shouldn’t do this because...Victor says so?
Paul, listing Scripture after Scripture out of context is not supporting
your case Scripturally, it just means you know how to copy and paste.
Again, mormons quote Scriptures. David Koresh quoted Scripture. Jehovah’s
Witnesses quaote Scripture. What you are unable to do is to let the Biblical
record speak for itself as a whole, because like these other groups doing
so destroys your positions. You claim that your writings are revealed
by the Spirit of God: “Lee, as for the proverbs,
all inspired speaking is of God, if inspired of the Spirit of God, of
course. And how would
you know the difference between what is of God and what is not, if you
are prepared to not only follow a wolf, but to kill for him?”
Wow, a modern day prophet!
(Lee, who have you killed lately for Calvin?)
Let me ask you a simple question, does anyone teach anything other than
error outside of your little group? Has any man (or woman) ever grasped
any of the truth besides Victor and company (and maybe Servetus)? You
have already labelled as false teachers men like Augustine, Calvin, Spurgeon,
Bill Graham and Josh Gelatt (Josh, I will no longer be able to attend
your church since you have been exposed for the wolf that you are) Has
any other man in the two thousand year history of Christendom not been
a false teacher? If so, can you name them?
And Paul, please feel free to leave comments on my blog, I will happily
post them as I posted the comment from Ingrid.
3/24/08 1:20 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Lee, in answer to your question/accusation:
“And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See,
do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have
the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the
spirit of prophecy” (Revelation 19:10 MKJV).
How is it that you do not have the spirit of prophecy or the testimony
of Jesus, since you profess Him?
“As You have sent Me into the world, even so I have sent them
into the world....That they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me,
and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may
believe that You have sent Me. And I have given them the glory which
You have given Me, that they may be one, even as We are one, I in them,
and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world
may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved
Me. Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, that they may
be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given
Me, for You have loved Me before the foundation of the world” (John
17:18, 21-24 MKJV).
We have the fulfillment of Christ’s prayer to be one in Him and
together with Him and each other. How come you do not have this?
We are flesh and blood as are any other prophets or servants of God:
“Elijah was a man of like passion as we are. And he prayed earnestly
that it might not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for the time
of three years and six months” (James 5:17 MKJV).
Why do you look only on the weakness of the flesh, and not the power
of the Lord?
“Truly I say to you, Among those who have been born of women there
has not risen a greater one than John the Baptist. But the least in the
Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he” (Matthew 11:11 MKJV).
If we are born of God, now members of His Kingdom, we have something
greater than Solomon because Christ is in us. Why should it be surprising
to you that we can also say wise things, if He Who is made wisdom to
us resides in us? The question is, why don’t you have the same
Power, and why are you not writing proverbs and saying wise things, since
you profess Christ?
The answer is because, as the murderer John Calvin, you are the seed
of Cain, who offered sacrifices to God that were not acceptable and were
rejected of Him because he, like you, sought his own glory.
The “historic faith” did not originate with Jesus Christ
but with worshippers of the queen of Heaven (Jeremiah 44:17-25), such
as Augustine and Constantine and other sun worshippers taking on the
Name of Christ. These all represent and are one with and in Mystery,
Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots, Satan’s bride posing
as Christ’s bride, even as your father comes as an angel of light
and poses as a savior. Indeed, your historic faith goes all the way back
to Nimrod and Semiramis and continues from there, dressing in sheep’s
clothing not long after Christ’s day in the flesh.
(Jeremiah 44:17 BBE) But we will certainly do every word which has gone
out of our mouths, burning perfumes to the queen of Heaven and draining
out drink offerings to her as we did, we and our fathers and our kings
and our rulers, in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem:
for then we had food enough and did well and saw no evil.
(Jeremiah 44:18 BBE) But from the time when we gave up burning perfumes
to the queen of Heaven and draining out drink offerings to her, we have
been in need of all things, and have been wasted by the sword and by
need of food.
(Jeremiah 44:19 BBE) And the women said, When we were burning perfumes
to the queen of Heaven and draining out drink offerings to her, did we
make cakes in her image and give her our drink offerings without the
knowledge of our husbands?
(Jeremiah 44:20 BBE) Then Jeremiah said to all the people, to the men
and women and all the people who had given him that answer,
(Jeremiah 44:21 BBE) The perfumes which you have been burning in the
towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your fathers
and your kings and your rulers and the people of the land, had the Lord
no memory of them, and did He not keep them in mind?
(Jeremiah 44:22 BBE) And the Lord was no longer able to put up with
the evil of your doings and the disgusting things you did; and because
of this your land has become a waste and a cause of wonder and a curse,
with no one living in it, as at this day.
(Jeremiah 44:23 BBE) Because you have been burning perfumes, and sinning
against the Lord, and have not given ear to the voice of the Lord, or
gone in the way of His Law or His rules or His orders; for this reason
this evil has come on you, as it is today.
(Jeremiah 44:24 BBE) Further, Jeremiah said to all the people and all
the women, Give ear to the Word of the Lord, all those of Judah who are
living in Egypt:
(Jeremiah 44:25 BBE) This is what the Lord of armies, the God of Israel,
has said: You women have said with your mouths, and with your hands you
have done what you said, We will certainly give effect to the oaths we
have made, to have perfumes burned to the queen of Heaven and drink offerings
drained out to her: then give effect to your oaths and do them.
Church history is mainly the record of the false and not the true church.
The false espouses the “orthodox faith” to which you refer
and of which you and all serpents are members. Our Church is the Body
of Christ and not the Bible-named slut you know to be your mother. You
better believe we have removed ourselves from the “historic faith,” praise
be to God, Who has given us the grace to obey Him, even as His Word commands:
“Wherefore come out from among them, and be separate, says the
Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will
be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the
Lord Almighty” (2 Corinthians 6:17,18).
“Depart, depart, go out from there, touch no unclean thing; go
out of the midst of her [Babylon]; be clean, you that bear the vessels
of the Lord” (Isaiah 52:11).
“And I heard another voice from Heaven, saying, Come out of her,
My people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive
not of her plagues” (Revelation 18:4).
“I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit
with the wicked” (Psalms 26:5).
“Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:
in whose hands is mischief, and their right hand is full of bribes” (Psalms
You do remain in your sins, Josh, and there is no glory shining at all,
believe it, certainly not God’s glory (You say you see, don’t
you? Therefore your blindness remains). As He said to the Pharisees,
so He still says to the children of the Pharisees:
“Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the Kingdom
of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven. Many will
say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your Name,
and through Your Name throw out demons, and through Your Name do many
wonderful works? And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart
from Me, those working lawlessness!” (Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV)
This is “that day,” and we come, even as Enoch prophesied,
with the Lord, to convince you, the ungodly, who blaspheme. You are finished.
You have had your day. Now the Lord has His, and we are here to tell
you so. Satan, you are finished, and we finish you.
“Even so you also appear righteous to men outwardly, but inside
you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate
the tombs of the righteous, and say, If we had been in the days of our
fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the
prophets. Therefore you are witnesses to yourselves, that you are the
sons of those who killed the prophets; and you fill up the measure of
your fathers. Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation
of hell?” (Matthew 23:28-33 MKJV)
Today, the Lord has spoken to you by us.
3/24/08 3:17 PM
Josh Gelatt said...
Paul, please know that I truly have compassion for you. It was the
Pharisees of the New Testament that looked down on everyone else.
They felt they, and
they alone, had a “special” relationship with God. They became
conceited, abusive, controlling, manipulative, and felt that God would
only speak to them and through them.
It grieves me to see that you have come under the influence of such
a heretical teaching. It grieves me even more to see your heart filled
with hate, with no hint of compassion or love for your enemies (the mark
of a true Christian).
I believe my earlier comments have been flippant towards you, and for
this I apologize. It was wrong of me to mock you, and I ask for your
forgiveness. However, I do have no further wish to entertain your apostasy
from the apostolic faith. As such, this will be my last comment--despite
whatever comment you may make in reply.
May you come to know the joy that is found in a genuine relationship
with the joy-giving, love-producing, life-instilling, Christ-revealing,
Triune God. By His grace, He has brought me into such a relationship,
unworthy as I am. Perhaps if you turn to Him, we can discover the further
beauty of this new life in Christ together.
3/24/08 4:44 PM
You told Lee, “why are you not writing proverbs
and saying wise things, since you profess Christ?”
Yet in your own proverbs (#663), you write: “If
one has love, he need not be concerned about having wisdom.”
Hmmmmmmm. What happened? Did God give you a contradictory message?
I really liked Proverb #569. “There is no
reasoning with a fool; he is his own authority.” Describes you pretty well.
Your invading of this site is best summed up by Proverb 564. “First
does the deceiver deceive himself, and then he proceeds to work his evil
Your repeated accusations against others is dealt with in Proverb #287. “The
sinner’s great contradiction is that she sees only the sins of
Your rejection of the greatest figures in Church history is dealt with
in Proverb # 265. “A fool despises authority,
not considering it is provided for his safety.”
Your constant bragging of your own wisdom and prophetic abilities is
best responded to with Proverb #253. “Are
you pious and devout? Then why do you tell both men and God?”
The retort to your incessant rambling about yourself is found in Proverb
#201. “He who claims his own virtue is void
of it; the more he proclaims, the less of it he has.”
Your excessive quotation of scripture to attack the faith of others
at this blog is dealt with in Proverb #184. “Fools
gather knowledge, not to understand but to destroy.”
Your refusal to listen to other is summarized in Proverb #20. “A
fool will not listen or he would not be a fool.”
And my personal favorite, which describes your ramblings perfectly,
is Proverb #83. “Foolish words spoken are
as passing gas.”
The fact that you will not listen to anything I have just said was foretold
in Proverb #18. “As a dog defecates and urinates
where it will, so sinners do as they please.”
3/24/08 5:14 PM
Brother Slawson said...
I have an extra watch if anyone wants it. I will reduce it to $9.95,
more than a 20% discount.
3/24/08 8:05 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Arthur, many are the signs and fruits of a false prophet demonstrated
in your behavior and complaints. Let me mention but a
Number one, you complain about what we posted on Lee’s website,
but there is no substance justifying your condemnation. The Law of God
calls for two or three witnesses. Your single opinion, no matter how
many theologians you think or claim back you, is still just one witness.
You call on others to condemn us whereas they have nothing to say to
us and offer no evidence. That makes you a false accuser and lawbreaker.
Number two, your shock and disbelief that men such as Augustine, Spurgeon,
and Calvin are false, because the Lord plainly said there would be many false prophets, who would deceive many (Matthew 24:11). You say that
because many believe them they must be true. That reasoning is contrary
to the Spirit of the Lord and His teaching. It is based on the might
of man, not the Truth of God.
You claim that to be mentioned in the same breath as the “giant” Spurgeon
means you must be doing something right. By the same reasoning, if I
likened you to the pope you would be even “righter.”
The wisdom of God says:
“Those who forsake the Law praise the wicked, but those who keep
the Law strive with them” (Proverbs 28:4 LITV).
Number three, you act as if it is sacrilege to publicly identify false
prophets. The apostles regularly did so. You are a hypocrite because
you call us false while doing the very same thing as we do, only in your
case you have no substance.
Number four, you originally complained because I responded to your ridicule
of a paper on our site, which complaint on your part was entirely childish
and evil. You dismissed us as false teachers based on your conclusion
that teaching Christian husbands and wives that they are under no obligation
to sleep in the same bed means we cannot be servants of the Lord.
Even if what we say is not true, you have no valid reason for your approach.
Paul did not dismiss Peter as a servant of God when Peter got carried
away with the Jewish legalists, but corrected him. Where is your correction?
There is none, just a derisory dismissal with juvenile jesting, “I
immediately kicked my wife out to the barn,” and “girls
DO have cooties.” Of course there would be no correction coming from
you, because, unlike Paul, you are not a brother to the brethren. You
are their accuser.
You read things into what was written, and leave things out that are.
You condemn what you have made up, and bundle the Substance, along with
us, to be burned in the eternal flames of Hell you so dearly love.
Yet this writing in particular has shown how, by the Scriptures, men
of God did not sleep with their wives all the time, or as the rule. And
certainly, in order to keep the Law of God, men and women had to keep
But as a true son of Belial, you mock and scoff at God’s way and
order. You are twice the child of hell, because born, not only of the
treasure-seeking, lying scoundrel Joseph Smith, but now also of the lying
murderer John Calvin. We are opposed here by a legion of religious devils.
That is no problem for the Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore no problem
for us. In fact it is the wonderful opportunity He has provided for us
to defeat them all in His Name.
Number five, we have not dismissed anyone as a brother or sister in
the Lord over the matter of sharing a bed with his or her spouse. We
have taught a better way. The paper we wrote is for those who seek the
Lord, who find themselves under bondage and could fare much better by
employing the answer the Lord has given us. But, though we speak the
truth, we do not compel. The Lord has come to bring us life, not more
You are the one compelling, the tyrant that ridicules brothers of the
Lord and denies others the opportunity for the great blessings that come
by believing and walking in the truth. You are the one found to be straining
out gnats while swallowing camels, belching up noxious gas that makes
the saints in Heaven wretch.
Number six, you accuse us of demanding people walk in “lockstep” with
our teachings or we cast their names out as false. That is not true.
We present the teachings and criteria of the Lord Jesus Christ and declare
His judgments, which are not hidden from us or meant to be obscured from
men, which is the work of religious frauds like you, as you prove here.
The True Marks of a
Cult presents God’s ways that He requires
and commands of His people, as given in the Holy Scriptures. In there
you will find that your specific accusation of us as a cult also condemns
the Lord Jesus Christ, Who warned that He came to divide. You will also
find many other things in which you are wrong, and you will not be able
to deny or admit your wrongness in a single one of them.
And what is wrong with walking in lockstep, anyway? You are constantly
condemning the holy things of God, calling them foul, and calling foul
things holy. By Him indeed, the saints do walk together in lockstep:
“They shall run like mighty ones. They shall climb the wall like
men of war, and they shall march each one on his way, and they shall
not break their ranks” (Joel 2:7 MKJV).
So now, go read and see for yourself how you and your theologians stack
up to God’s measure. Telling us they are all right and you are
right because they are is no different than a dog chasing its tail telling
us it has caught its quarry. Even if it actually did, what has it got
in its mouth? So what if you caught your own tail?
3/25/08 11:55 AM
Paul Cohen said...
Josh, you don’t know what you are talking about and therefore are not
making any sense. How is it you ask for forgiveness, but say you will not talk
to me any longer, even if I forgive you? What kind of Christian thing is that
to do? Don’t tell me that you are justified because we are apostates.
You have no evidence of that whatsoever. We have not deserted Christ
and you know it. Listen to me for a minute.
When I first began to believe, God revealed Jesus Christ to me as the
Messiah. As a Jew, I had very little exposure to the New Testament, or
Christian doctrines, in whatever form. I began to read the New Testament
and knew it was true. God opened my understanding. I had no concept of
Him being a “trinity,” yet I began to understand that Christ
had died for my sins, and that He was what everything was all about.
One day a neighbor asked me about my new beliefs, and, he also being
a Jew, asked me Who Jesus Christ was. My answer, which was a realization
for me, was, “He is God.”
Over time I repented of my sins, and recognized my total dependence
on His grace and mercy. Is this not an authentic conversion experience?
Who but God can turn a man from his sins to forsake all things to follow
Him? Who can come to Christ except the Father draws him?
Still, I heard no word from God on the “trinity.” I never
conceived of Him as different entities because there was never more than
one God Who spoke to me, informed me, and led me in all these years since
I first believed (30 years). There were not three gods that appeared
or revealed themselves to me. You yourself say that there are not three
different gods, correct? So why are you rejecting me based on your theoretical
understanding of a matter?
Do you mean to tell me that you believe Christ would have you reject
me, the One Whose blood has cleansed me from all sin, and upon Whom I
trust, with no other resources to keep me, because I do not believe in
your “trinity”? The Scriptures say that whosoever calls on
the Name of the Lord (not the trinity), will be saved. Jesus said that
whoever came to Him (not the trinity), He would in no wise cast out.
Who are you to cast out whom He receives and keeps? Do you not see your
Perhaps you misunderstand or have not red the paper that has started
this conversation, but I do not reject John Calvin as a man of God because
he teaches the trinity. I made it very clear up front that we all have
been told by the Lord to know them by their fruits. That is how we have
Our judgment against Calvin is airtight against the charge that he has
been judged by his doctrines. After the murder of Servetus, which Calvin
undertook, using doctrinal positions as justification, accusing Servetus
of blasphemy, Sebastian Castellion came forward and proved that regardless
of what Servetus or Calvin believed, Calvin was in the wrong to persecute
and murder Servetus. Castellion did not argue doctrine, but, by using
Scripture and reason, proved how ungodly Calvin’s behavior was.
The fruits were examined and found wanting.
And just like Cain who was confronted by the Truth on his rotten attitude,
Calvin’s behavior only got worse. Rather than confessing his sins
and repenting, he continued, in his mad rage, to persecute Castellion
and to justify his murder of Servetus, even boasting of it to others.
He saw to it that Castellion lost his job and his life, but Castellion
had not testified against Calvin’s wickedness in vain. No, not
at all. You and the mocking mob gathered here are not burning me at the
stake today, or beheading me, because men of God stood against the tyranny
of bullies and conniving murderers like Calvin and shed their blood by
their testimony of Christ. You have inherited the freedom you have to
profess your beliefs without fear of the Catholic and other churches
persecuting you by the testimony of these saints. Abusing us and them,
your freedom will certainly be taken away, just as the Lord illustrated
in His parable (Luke 20).
In testifying of the true God and Christ, Servetus and Castellion also
testified against the antiChrist, which literally means, the one sitting
in the place of Christ. Calvin and all religious who resist the Holy
Spirit manifest this antiChrist spirit, evident in their persecutions
So, while Calvin was certainly a “damned good churchman,” he
was not a Christian. Christians do not manifest the fruits of Cain, killing
That is the company you keep, Josh, and no matter how gentle and “Christian” you
make yourself to appear, that is what lies within you and is not being
dealt with by the process of salvation that occurs for those who come
out from among them to join the Lord without the camp.
3/25/08 2:42 PM
Paul Cohen said...
Anonymous, you say that we will not listen to you, but what exactly
are you telling us? You make accusations based on conjectures
and subjective feelings.
There is nothing substantive here for us to consider. Let me show you.
You begin by asking us if God has given us a contradictory message,
because Victor writes that if one has love one need not be concerned
about having wisdom.
There is no contradiction here at all. The reason the one who has love
need not be concerned is because if he has love he has all that he needs
from God, wisdom included. The one walking in the love of God has nothing
to fear. That is the perfect wisdom of God in operation. God is love;
He is also our wisdom.
You write: “I really liked Proverb #569. ‘There
is no reasoning with a fool; he is his own authority.’ Describes you pretty well.”
So you say. But have I not just reasoned with you? Will you listen?
If so, will you apologize for your hasty and false accusation? If not,
does this not describe you?
You claim: “Your invading of this site is
best summed up by Proverb 564. ‘First does
the deceiver deceive himself, and then he proceeds to work his evil
That is your opinion. No one has shown us that the things we have written
in the paper about John Calvin are untrue. In what, then, are we deceived?
You don’t say. If you cannot say, how can you conclude that what
we preach is evil? How can we?
You continue: “Your repeated accusations
against others is dealt with in Proverb #287. ‘The
sinner’s great contradiction is
that she sees only the sins of others.’”
Surely you could take any proverb of Solomon’s, and say it condemns
us. Any irresponsible fool can do that. What requires wisdom is to apply
the Word of God correctly and lawfully. Now tell us what sins we have
pointed out that do not exist, and what sins we are guilty of that we
have not confessed. Use the definition in the Scriptures of sin, and
not your own foregone conclusions. Otherwise, as with all these attributions,
they are just careless, empty words.
Perhaps you are telling us that our sin is to speak against the “greatest
figures in Church history”: “Your rejection
of the greatest figures in Church history is dealt with in Proverb #
265. ‘A fool
despises authority, not considering it is provided for his safety.’”
Did Calvin provide safety for Castellion? Did Castellion despise authority,
or did he have legitimate questions and points to make? Can you tell
the difference? By your measure, the apostles were rightly beaten and
persecuted for not respecting the wishes of the religious authorities
of their day. By your judgment, Luther and Calvin were wrong for resisting
the authority of the Roman Church. So do you also justify the murderers
of Christ, Who did not play it safe with the authorities of His day,
but gave witness to the Authority of authorities. This wisdom is too
high for a fool.
You accuse us of bragging about our own wisdom and virtue. That is an
obvious lie, which means, of course, that you do not provide any examples
because there are none. You cannot tell the difference between those
that speak the truth in Christ, because their confidence is in Him, and
those that speak of themselves, because they trust in themselves. You
are among the latter, who are blind because they reject the Light of
all men in preference to themselves and their chosen religious ways.
You serve the prince of darkness, who is the accuser of the brethren.
That is the entire nature of your posting. And in keeping with the darkness
in which you come, you accuse anonymously.
Did you not know that your great figures in Church history are defenders
or reformers of the Catholic Church - she of the Inquisition, where anonymous
666. As jackals and hyenas linger in the background for a safe time
to attack and feed, so false accusers keep hidden their faces for fear
of exposure and defeat.
So you are now the inspiration of number 666. Interesting. [Since this
posting, an error was found wherein the numbers of our proverbs was off
by a hundred. What was then #666 is now #566.]
It is evident to those with eyes to see that you do not post to give,
to teach good, and to worship and glorify God, but you post to entertain
men and vaunt yourself. Do you really think to show yourself clever?
Perhaps to other fools, but what are they that they should be impressed?
An ignorant child can make dogs jump for biscuits too.
How then can you possibly appreciate the bouquet of Truth, when you
live by the noxious fumes of liars and fools?
“Because of Christ, we give off a sweet scent rising to God, which
is recognized by those on the way of salvation--an aroma redolent with
life. But those on the way to destruction treat us more like the stench
from a rotting corpse” (2 Corinthians 2:15-16 MSG).
I do not defecate and urinate on your words, as you claimed I would,
but have soundly answered them with words of Truth. Only to you is it
human refuse, and for this reason you perish:
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that change
darkness into light, and light into darkness; that change bitter into
sweet, and sweet into bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own
eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to
drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink; that justify
the wicked for a reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous
from him! Therefore as the tongue of fire devours the stubble, and as
the chaff is consumed in the flame, so their root shall be as rottenness,
and their blossom shall go up as dust; because they have rejected the
law of the LORD of hosts, and contemned the word of the Holy One of Israel” (Isaiah
As the wise man said:
“The words of a wise man’s mouth are gracious; but a fool
is swallowed by his own lips” (Ecclesiastes 10:12 HNV).
3/25/08 2:47 PM
Paul Cohen said...
No need for watches around here; time’s up.
3/25/08 2:49 PM
Arthur Sido said...
Paul, I responded back to you on my blog. I won’t waste anymore of Lee’s
blog space responding to your sanctimonious slander. I should probably follow
Josh’s example and just let it go, but cult leaders stick in my craw
and I can’t ignore false teachers.
(Not that Josh is ignoring false teachers, just that he recognizes that
when you get in the mud to wrestle you end up getting dirty)
3/25/08 7:37 PM
Lee Shelton IV said...
Paul, you and other followers of Victor can post here. Anything else
you post on this particular thread will be deleted.
3/25/08 7:52 PM
We had nothing more to say.
Click HERE to read our follow-up
conversation with Arthur Sido.