David’s comment to Tovia Singer’s article, Evangelizing the Jews:
What of common sense?
Is it not obvious to this argument of Messiah…
200 years ago in Turkey a/the messiah married a torah. How could the messiah have come 2008 years ago if it happened 200 yrs ago? There would be no more false messiahs after the real one came. The issue would be non existant. After the messiah comes for real there will be no more wars/fighting on planet earth. History has taken no brake from recording war yet. We have plenty of war/fighting now so obviously the messiach has not come.
The Mesheach is to be a man/human being and after this person’s work is done G-d will decend towards us and we will have a new closer relationship with G-d all the time. A man/human will do this only once. It is the Universal Peace we all understand that is promised. Why are non-Jews trying to tell us our business that they learned from us? They need to ask questions to learn where we are coming from. And so do we. Be free the Ego and Q tip the ears.
Paul’s reply to David:
Below is my reply to the article. Regarding your contention that the Messiah would bring peace, I understand what you are saying. The Messiah does bring peace, individually to all who receive Him, and, in time, to Israel and this world through the prophet of whom Moses spoke (Deuteronomy 18). But first the Seed had to be planted.
The author of this article states many errors as though they are the truth. For example, he calls the Catholic Church “Christian,” when it has nothing to do with the life and teaching of Jesus Christ. He approves of the Catholic Church because it does not seek to proselytize Jews, rather than calling it what it is, one of the most destructive forces on earth, which has only been forced to reign in its horns since it lost its power to control armies. When the Catholic Church had arms you could forget about being “loved” into their religion; you were drawn at the edge of the sword!
The Protestant churches and Messianic synagogues also have nothing whatsoever to do with the life and teaching of Jesus Christ. Neither do the orthodox or other branches of Judaism have anything to do with Moses and his teachings. All of these religious works are men’s ideas; they are copies of the living faith described in the Bible with perverse additions that are not found in the Bible. Man’s religions are totally void of the hallmark of every true servant and messenger of God (and those who follow Him): His directing Presence and wisdom to meet all needs.
For example, the author writes that “the New Testament specifically prioritizes Jews for conversion….when Jesus is instructing his apostles, he warns them, ‘Go not into the way of the gentiles…but only go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’” That was a specific instruction given at that time, to those particular men to whom Jesus spoke, and not for all time to all believers, as evidenced by Jesus later sending Paul to the Gentiles.
The author’s interpretation is no different than telling Jews they should have been submitting to Saddam Hussein because he was as Nebuchadnezzar, the absolute ruler of modern Babylon, the nation to which, Jeremiah prophesied, Israel should submit. But a relationship with God is living, His instruction application-specific and according to His Spirit. Those who have a form of religion do not know or hear from the living God as did Moses and the prophets, and as we do today.
What is a Jew, anyway? One who goes to synagogue? One who wears tefillin? One who does not eat milk and meat at the same meal, unlike Abraham who served both to God when He came to him as a man (Genesis 18:8)? Neither did Abraham do the other things. What made Abraham a Jew was that he believed God, entrusting his life to Him. How will you then recognize a Jew, unless you have also laid down your life for God?
The author also misquotes Paul, putting these words in his mouth, “Go to the Jew first….” What Paul actually said was this:
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek” (Romans 1:16 MKJV).
The Jew who had been brought up with an awareness of the Word of God had an advantage over the one who had never heard of Him. Paul wasn’t talking about trying to proselytize anyone first, Jew or Gentile. Obviously he would have been violating his own edict if that was the case for, as I have already mentioned, he was sent by God to the Gentiles. And Paul obeyed, as do all those led of His Spirit. That is true religion; it has value in the sight in God.
This is the real issue obscured by the author’s complaint: What matters is whether you know God, hear His voice, and obey Him. That is what Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all experienced. If you are not hearing from God and walking with Him, then you are not a son or daughter of Abraham by faith. So what if you are a physical son or daughter? Were not those who perished in the wilderness because of their unbelief physical sons and daughters? Were not your fathers and mothers physical sons and daughters of Abraham though God cast them out of the land?
When you turn to your God with all your hearts and walk with Him, you will have rejected all religions, and all religions will have rejected you, finding you objectionable, just as your fathers found Jesus Christ.
However, not all Jews rejected Christ. The New Testament is the testimony of Jews who saw the Lamb of God, the Savior and God of Israel Who came in the flesh to lay down His life for all mankind, and they witnessed His resurrection from the dead. They partook of His power and proclaimed His Name, and now He is known throughout the world, enabling all peoples who call on the Name of God in truth in order to walk in His Law and have peace with Him and with each other.
What is your desirable outcome of this issue? Do you lean towards any side / are you making a stand? Are you for the humanisim of the Jews “…we were slaves and know it is wrong so we will never have slaves”, or are you for the Christ worshipers “convert them to our thoughts and ideas before we even meet them, they are wrong and must be changed”.etc. The evolution of our species once led us towards idol worship and it is a difficult habit to let go of. The Jews have taken the step of letting go and will not look back. But others have idols a plenty. They have not stopped since they started and may never let go. This is not the belief of G-d that is in question. Only human ego to be strongly in charge of control of ideas. The Jews say we are our own direct link to the creator. Others wish for all of us to bow to them and not deal with the eternal ourselves. The Hindu people have had 5,000. gods for 5,000. years and they are going strong. They do not need or desire change by those who know nothing of them. The arabs have considered themselves the brother of the Jews in the past (and perhaps will again). The modern relationship of Arab & Jew is new and based on no fact. It is a choice to pick on the “others”. The large group stepping on the smaller one. Is this not the way of nature? Do we not crush ants without notcieing simply by walking? Is this what is happening in the large scheme of things as well? The majority is picking on the minority. And all along mother nature and G-d remind us that we need eachother and have not time to argue religious details that have never and will never be proven. Earthquakes, tidal waves, tsunami, plagues, killer asteroids, etc. Enimies always turn to eachother for help time and again. Is it not time to remember that we don’t have time for making eachother wrong? It is what we practice so why not let that be what we speak and think. We are not the aliens and they are not the aliens. We are all togeather the human race/species. All that exists will be gone eventually. Only the one true creator will exist as it has already been so can it only be. What difference does it make to G-d if humans argued over ideas and hurt eachother while they existed. It is only a brief second in eternity fot G-d. We were only a short lived idea. And then never again-
We need to learn to respect eachother and help eachother always. There will always be new problems and troubles to survive and overcome. To share ideas yes. To convert? To control? No. This is the re-run mistake of our history. Let us evolve all the way up to the top…where we admit that we don’t know and accept that we may never know…Let it be as it is and not as our ego says. This is the peace, this is where learning takes place. this is where we must go…whos coming?
I am not any of the things you characterize. I am for God, the one and only Lord God of Israel, Jesus Christ. He is what matters. Unless you know Him, you will surely not know what I am talking about.
Here is something you need to read and digest to get started on the right path:
Your enemy is not other peoples, religions, or external forces. Your enemy is within. You are your enemy, asserting your damnable independence from God and not being reconciled to Him as your Lord and Savior.
God is not hampered from making Himself known; our fathers reported the things He spoke and revealed to them, which things are recorded in the Bible for our sakes. The same Lord and God has made Himself known to me. I am not trying to convert you to religion; I am speaking repentance, telling you to turn to your God. “Repent” is the first word God has ordained for the world to hear about its relationship to Him. Are you telling me that you have no need whatsoever for repentance? Everyone else is at fault except you?
God is in control, David, like it or not, agree or not. Your resistance will not last forever. You will come under Him, in entirety, because He has bought and paid for you with His blood and owns you entirely. And that will be for good, not the evil you ascribe to Him in calling you to repentance and the giving up of the foolish notions that you entertain as if they will get you anywhere.
There is no “evolution to the top,” where one arrives and is yet in the dark. That is just more of man’s lostness in this world. There is, however, humbling before our Creator, where, by the grace of God through Jesus Christ, you are given the grace to recognize His sacrifice and obedience on your behalf, and then you will come to know God through the exercise of faith unto obedience. You will know all things through Him.
You ask, “whos coming?” I am here right now speaking the Word of God to you in the Name of the God of Israel. What more could you ask for? But I will give you more:
You are not Jewish. The question was what are you? What do you stand for?
Your answer is for a 2008 year old false messiah. Thats all.
We know that the true messiah can not come in time before a false one because after the real one comes there are no more false messiahs. It is done. No more war, and G-d is closer all day everyday. 200 years ago in Turkey a false messiah married the Torah, and was made by Arabs to choose to die or become a non-Jew. That false messiah became a non-Jew and lived. Besides the whole idol thing there is plenty of war these days so we Jews still pray for Mesheack now=messiah now.
Besides peace is “Ego” free. Do your own thing with out worrying about others. To allow all people to have their own control over their destiny and life. That is easy to say and easy to do for some…
…but others have made it their goal to impose on others. When this is done it is the enslaving of the body, mind, or both. Take insult!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The small minded need to control. Men over Women, White over Black, Red, etc.
Stop the madness. Do not seek to erase the heritage of others by replacing their beliefs with your own.
Open your mind to all of Human thought and then find your own answers.
Study all of Human History in order. Pay attention to the order of who existed first Samerian, Messiptamian, Egyptian, Hebrew, Greek, Rome, etc….
See how all ideas borrowed and evolved from each other.
Those who call themselves the new testment seek to replace and ignore those who they got their ideas from without permission. Without studying or working.
Believe for your self what you wish but do not trick others to do the same. Let us all find our own way as we were meant to.
You don’t have to be Jewish! No problem. But if you are using Jewish ideas then you need to check with the source to get things correct.
G-d works in mysterious ways, but only if you allow for an open but educated mind.
David, who is trying to control you? Who is trying to take away your heritage? The paper I sent you, Israel, Is Your God Unjust?, is all about your heritage and facing up to your betrayal of God, Who gave you a good heritage that you have polluted.
In your opinion the Messiah would never be rejected by His people, but your opinion is contrary to the Word of God and reality:
“Who has believed our report? And to Whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? For He shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; He had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon Him, nor beauty that we should delight in Him. He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as One from Whom men hide their face: He was despised, and we esteemed Him not. Surely our diseases He did bear, and our pains He carried; whereas we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was wounded because of our transgressions, He was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon Him, and with His stripes we were healed. All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has made to light on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:1-6).
And don’t give me the shopworn and patently absurd interpretation that the prophet is talking about Israel. He is speaking to Israel about their Savior. Israel is not her own savior. We are the ones who went astray; we are the ones who did not believe the report from God; we are the ones who rejected our Savior. It is Israel that needs the Savior.
You are a very confused man, David. The worse part of your confusion is that your proud heart demands that you destroy yourself before getting help. Have it your way, as much as God allows you to do so.
According to Moses, you have nothing to be proud of regarding the actions of your fathers who forsook God; following in their footsteps and boasting about it is manifest foolishness on the path to destruction.
Only those familiar with warfare can sufficiently appreciate the fact of miraculously low casualties with the Israelis in this particular war in Gaza.
This conversation with an orthodox Jew highlights the answers God has for Biblical arguments used to reject His appearing in Christ. As always with God, it is about more than doctrine; the answers are tailored to the person. That is how it can be said that Mr. Yacobi met his Messiah.
An SDA presents us with vicious slander of Israel. With honesty and mediocre intelligence, it will be obvious that the propaganda unleashed on Israel by the world at large is nothing short of wicked deception. The malignancy prevalent today is a mystery - it makes no sense, but it is very real. By God’s grace, we will stand to oppose and expose the libel of Jews in Israel for what it is - Satan’s strategy and machinations to destroy those whom God has chosen for Himself.