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Here are seventy-six questions, asked by Jews in the flesh, with answers, provided by Jews in the spirit, by the grace of YHWH/God/Yahshuah/Yeshua, the Lord Jesus Christ.
A man in great bitterness of soul sent us the following questions, defying us to answer the apparent contradictions of the Scriptures against Jesus Christ and Christianity. We must alert the reader to the fact that there is a big difference between the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah/Yahoshuah HaMashiach) and Christianity, the religion. With that in mind, we answer these questions sent to us from a web site that seeks to save Jews from conversion to Christianity.
Keep in mind that while we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, we too seek to save people from “Christianity.” We perceive Christianity the religion to be the greatest abomination above all religions in the world, primarily because it teaches false doctrine, and practices paganism and idolatry in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Doing so in His Name makes it doubly evil, if not more so. Truly, His great wrath is on “Christianity,” and “Christians” everywhere perish as with any other religion.
“I was in a false belief system called Christianity, based on a belief that Jesus was messiah & Lord, that he died for my sins, and rose on the 3rd day. It was an authentic belief, and I was truly saved. But I learned that no matter how much you try to dress it up, it is rotton to the core.”
We replied to his letter, and told him that he had never been saved, and that he was wrong in his stance and thinking. We also told him that we could reply to his objections, apparent contradictions, and questions against Christ. He replied:
“How’s this for starters, oh brother in Christ to 2 Pauls. If you think I am wrong, then answer these questions… WITHOUT taking anything out of context, mistranslating, or imposing a pre-conceived notion. (All chapter and verse numbers are according to Christian bibles.)”
QUESTION NUMBER ONE
Jeff asks: “Why does the subject of 2 Sam. 7.14 ‘commit iniquity,’ if, according to Hebrews 1.5, this is Jesus?”
First of all, we have no doubt that the truest answers will not satisfy those who are interested only in maintaining their own positions, and keeping their sins. Those that are guilty of mistranslating will accuse us of mistranslating, and those who have their preconceived notions will accuse us of reading into the Scriptures our own interpretations. “No man spoke like this man” reported those sent to apprehend Jesus and who came back empty-handed. Many were in awe at His wise and authoritative replies to the religious and others, but that did not stop the religious from condemning Him as a liar, glutton, winebibber, mad man, and demon-possessed. They killed Him. Therefore we do not expect to be believed by determined gainsayers. However, the truth is the truth, and it will serve where, when and how ordained to do so. As Jesus said, “Wisdom is justified of her children.” Thus we write and proceed to answer Jeff’s questions. The text to which he refers, records the prophet Nathan speaking by the Spirit of God to King David:
“When your days are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son: if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men; but my loving kindness shall not depart from him, as I took it from Sha’ul, whom I put away before you. Your house and your kingdom shall be made sure for ever before you: your throne shall be established forever” (2 Samuel 7:12-16 HNV).
The Hebrews writer, in speaking of Jesus Christ, refers to these verses as prophetic of Him, saying: “For to which of the angels did He say at any time, ‘You are My Son, this day I have begotten You?’ And again, ‘I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son’? (Hebrews 1:5 MKJV)
Jeff is arguing, understandably, that if one part of the passage pertains to Jesus Christ, then surely the rest of it as well, namely the words: “I will be his father, and he shall be my son: if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men.”
First, the prophecy had a double meaning, earthly and heavenly, which prophecies often do, and of which there are many examples. In this case, Nathan was at once prophesying of Solomon, the physical son of David to rule Israel, and of Jesus Christ, Who would come through David’s lineage centuries later. While Solomon’s physical kingdom did not reign forever, Christ’s by Solomon (Matthew 1:6) does, not by physical but by spiritual attribute.
Second, of Jesus it is written: “…though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.” (Hebrews 5:8 MKJV)
While Jesus was never disobedient, yet He learned obedience. Is that a contradiction? Why would He need to learn obedience unless it was lacking? How did He learn it? He learned it by the things He suffered. What did He suffer? In reading the records of the Gospels, we see that He suffered at the hands of men. For example, the religious persecuted Him all the way, right to the cross. From the very beginning of His ministry, He was hated of men:
“And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And, as His custom was, He went in to the synagogue on the Sabbath day and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written, ‘The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.’ And rolling up the book, returning it to the attendant, He sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on Him. And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears. And all bore witness to Him and wondered at the gracious words which came out of His mouth. And they said, Is this not Joseph’s son? And He said to them, You will surely say this proverb to Me, Physician, heal yourself. Whatever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in your native-place. And He said, Truly I say to you, No prophet is accepted in his native-place. But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land. But Elijah was not sent to any of them, except to Zarephath, a city of Sidon, to a woman, a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian. And hearing these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath. And they rose up and thrust Him outside the city, and led Him up to the brow of the hill on which their city was built, in order to throw Him down. But passing through the midst of them, He went away” (Luke 4:16-30 MKJV).
If He needed to learn obedience, it goes without saying there was a need for, or lack of, obedience. Was He disobedient? No. But He was unobedient, that is, He needed to learn obedience. Remember, He took upon Himself the form of a man, and was tempted in all points as we are. It had to be so. As it is written:
“For we do not have a high priest who cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted just as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15 MKJV).
And: “For in that He Himself has suffered, having been tempted, He is able to rescue those who are being tempted” (Hebrews 2:18 MKJV).
He learned obedience by the chastening of “the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men.”
Did He commit iniquity? The definition of iniquity is open to interpretation. There are forms of it that are not sin. Strong’s Concordance defines the word: “To crook, literally or figuratively, do amiss, bow down, make crooked, commit iniquity, pervert, trouble, do wickedly, do wrong.”
Have we not all done amiss without sinning? Have we not all done things that we would now do differently, having learned? Yet were we sinning in all those cases? No. Even Moses, when reluctant and refusing God’s call to go to Egypt, was not sinning. However, God was angered with him, and if he remained in “unobedience” (“bowing down, doing amiss”), it would become “disobedience” (“doing wickedly, perverting”), or sin, that is, iniquity of a certain and unacceptable order. Here is a small portion of that passage, wherein is recorded that Moses made God angry:
“And now go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say. And he said, O my Lord, I pray You, send by the hand of him whom You will send. And the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Moses. And He said, Do I not know Aaron the Levite, your brother that he can speak well? And also, behold, he comes forth to meet you. And when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart” (Exodus 4:12-14 MKJV). Read Exodus chapters 3 and 4 for details.
Jesus had to learn obedience. At age 12, He was “unobedient”:
“And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the Feast. And fulfilling the days, as they returned, the boy Jesus stayed in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know. But they, supposing Him to have been in the company, went a day’s journey. And they looked for Him among the kinsfolk and acquaintances. And when they did not find Him, they turned back to Jerusalem, seeking Him. And it happened that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both hearing them and questioning them. And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. And seeing Him, they were amazed. And His mother said to Him, Child, why have you done so to us? Behold, your father and I have looked for you, greatly distressed. And He said to them, Why did you look for Me? Do you not know that I must be about My Father’s business? And they did not understand the word which He spoke to them” (Luke 2:42-50 MKJV).
What was His reaction? Did He learn obedience to counter His “iniquity”? It is recorded:
“And He went with them and came to Nazareth, and He was subject to them. But His mother kept all these sayings in her heart. And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man” (Luke 2:51-52 MKJV).
He learned obedience. He had committed iniquity, that is, doing that which was not acceptable for the time, not in rebellion or with evil intent, but without understanding. Though He had not honored mother and father, He was not disobedient willingly. This was not sin. When confronted, He obeyed. Had He insisted on His way, it would have been sin. He was without sin.
Third, the prophecy from Nathan says, “IF he commits iniquity…” Could not God be saying that He will always maintain His ways? Was He assuring David that all would be in perfect order, according to His will?
Did He say that this son would commit iniquity? The fulfilment of Solomon in this prophecy tells us that the son in question DID commit iniquity. In his latter days, Solomon gave himself to worshiping other gods. Solomon was the carnal fulfilment, which always sins, but Jesus Christ, the spiritual fulfilment, did not sin.
Fourth, God, by Nathan, did say, “…but My loving kindness shall not depart from him, as I took it from Sha’ul, whom I put away before you.”
King Saul, the first king of Israel, sinned not only by unobedience but by disobedience. He had been commanded and he knew differently from what he did. As a result, he was finished because God’s favor was no longer upon him. While Saul was sorry about consequences, he was not repentant.
The Greek word “hamartia,” translated “sin,” means “to fall short” or to “miss the mark.” Though we fall short of the spiritual realm (Kingdom of God) by being flesh and blood, the issue is not about our being flesh and blood. We all fall short, but sinning deliberately and remaining in that state is the issue. Jesus was made flesh, and therefore, in that sense, He was in sin (being in the flesh, falling short), yet without sin. That is why He said:
“But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!” (Luke 12:50 KJV) “Straitened” according to Strong’s Analytical Concordance means, “compressed, held in, lying sick of, arrested, afflicted, contained, stopped.” Falling short? Certainly. Jesus had to go all the way and lay down His life. Had He not done so, He would have perished in disobedience, and we with Him in our disobedience. He paid the price for all, and those throwing these questions at me throw them in His Face. What irony! What contradiction He suffers at the hands of men, whether He is unobedient or obedient! Yet He will prevail over all. His Lordship is sure, and our salvation is as sure as His Lordship, if we continue in Him.
Fifth, even if we were to remain in the Hebrew Old Testament context of prophecies spoken, there are times when only portions of certain prophecies applied to a person or event. Isaiah, for example, prophesied to Ahaz, king of Judah, and in the prophecy spoke of many things, including the fact that Jesus would be born of a virgin:
“And Jehovah spoke again to Ahaz, saying, Ask a sign of Jehovah your God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. But Ahaz said, I will not ask, nor will I tempt Jehovah. And He said, Hear now, O house of David; is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also? So, the Lord Himself shall give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Immanuel. Butter and honey he shall eat until he knows to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you loathe shall be forsaken before both its kings. Jehovah shall bring on you, and on your people, and on your father’s house, days that have not come, since the days that Ephraim departed from Judah, the king of Assyria. And it shall be, in that day Jehovah shall hiss for the fly at the end of the rivers of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria” (Isaiah 7:10-18 MKJV).
Sixth, Paul Cohen points out, importantly so, that as you read the entire Psalm posted below in “Question 2”, you see that the speaker says, after confessing his sin, “And I, in my integrity You uphold me; and You set me before Your face forever” (V.12).
Here is the meaning in Hebrew of the word translated as “integrity”:
“completeness; figuratively prosperity; usually (morally) innocence: – full, integrity, perfect (-ion), simplicity, upright (-ly, -ness), at a venture.”
How can a man in sin have integrity, and be set before the face of God forever? Simple. He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. He was found in the form of sinful man, but as the Son of God, was unlike us in that we all succumbed to sin, while He overcame it in His integrity. We, being found in Him, will also have His integrity, if we walk in faith by His Spirit.
When Jesus was teaching His disciples, He said:
“There is nothing from outside a man which entering into him can defile him. But the things which come out of him, those are the ones that defile the man… And He said, That which comes out of the man is what defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things pass out from inside and defile the man” (Mark 7:15,20-23).
The predisposition of sin is inside all men, including the Son of Man. (And Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good except one, God.) The question is whether the evil rules, bearing fruit, which it has in all men, except for the Son of Man, Who overcame for us so that we might also live in Him.
“Why does the speaker in Psalms 41.4 say, ‘I have sinned against Thee,’ if, according to John 13.18, this is Jesus?”
The New Testament passage to which he refers is:
“I do not speak of you all; I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture might be fulfilled, ‘He who eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me'” (John 13:18 MKJV).
The Old Testament passage referred to (I quote the entire psalm) is:
Psa 41:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. Blessed is he who acts wisely toward the poor; Jehovah will deliver him in time of trouble.
Psa 41:2 Jehovah will watch over him and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed on the earth; and You will not deliver him to the soul of his enemies.
Psa 41:3 Jehovah will hold him up on the bed of sickness; You will change all his bed in his illness.
Psa 41:4 I said, Jehovah, be merciful to me; heal my soul; for I have sinned against You.
Psa 41:5 My enemies speak evil of me, saying, When will he die, and his name perish?
Psa 41:6 And when he comes to see me, he speaks vanity; his heart gathers iniquity to itself; he goes out and speaks of it.
Psa 41:7 All those hating me whisper against me; they plot evil against me.
Psa 41:8 They say, A wicked thing is poured out on him, and he who lies down shall rise no more.
Psa 41:9 Even a man, my friend, in whom I trusted, who ate of my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.
Psa 41:10 But You, O Jehovah, be merciful to me, and raise me up, so that I may repay them.
Psa 41:11 By this I know that You delight in me, because my enemy does not triumph over me.
Psa 41:12 And I, in my integrity You uphold me; and You set me before Your face forever.
Psa 41:13 Blessed is Jehovah, the God of Israel, from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen and Amen!
Jeff again logically asks, “If one verse applies to Him, what about the rest? Surely the rest of the psalm does also!” He essentially asks the same question and the answers are the same, with somewhat more to be said.
This was a psalm of David, who was experiencing his troubles and recording them. Little did he know at the time that he was experiencing that which “the Son of David” would be going through a millennium later. The Holy Spirit of God, in His unsearchable wisdom, was making record of His time on earth while governing David’s life as an example to all saints in future.
Jesus had to experience our weaknesses and infirmities, though without the committing of sin. As quoted, the Hebrews writer said that He was tempted in all points as we are, so that therefore He can identify with us. How can that be if He did not experience the failure and torment of sin, though He did not sin? Indeed, He was fully man. He would have had to go through the agony of unobedience. Was He inconsiderate and untouched at the mental anguish His parents had when they found Him missing? Did He regret what He had done or not done, for their sakes? He did turn to make Himself subject to them, learning to obey.
When on the cross, Jesus cried: “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Did He not experience the separation from God? Why else would He have said this? In His flesh, as I have already pointed out under “Question One,” He was falling short, as ordained of the Father. He had His will, which was always contrary in nature to the Father’s will. That is why He said, “NOT My will, but Yours…” Is that a “form of sin”? Yes, it is, in that it is the opposition to God, but not in the sense that it is a wilful rejection or denial of God’s will.
The following may sound like I am skirting the issue, but now I must say something: It is impossible to understand the true spiritual essence of these things without the grace and revelation from God. While I explain, I question doing so. These things are not for those who do not believe, but for those who do. I do explain, knowing this, that one day these words will help the earnest pilgrim in Christ, serving to teach and to confirm his or her steps. The ungodly will choose their own thoughts and ways though we explain perfectly, and though the dead are raised.
Read again that which Paul Cohen writes in reply to Question One, Point 6.
“Why does the speaker in Psalms 69.5 mention his ‘folly’ and his ‘wrongs’ if, according to John 15.25, John 2.17, Romans 15.3, and John 19.28, this is Jesus?”
The fulfilment verses quoted are:
ONE: “But that the Word might be fulfilled that is written in their Law, ‘They hated Me without a cause'” (John 15:25 MKJV). Prophesied in Psalm 69:4:
“They who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; they who would destroy me are mighty, my lying enemies. Then I restored what I did not take away” (Psalms 69:4 MKJV).
TWO: “After this, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, Jesus said, I thirst” (John 19:28 MKJV). Prophesied in Psalm 69:21:
“They also gave Me gall for my food; and in My thirst they gave Me vinegar to drink” (Psalms 69:21 MKJV).
THREE: “For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, ‘The reproaches of those who reproached You fell on Me'” (Romans 15:3 MKJV). Prophesied in Psalm 69:9:
“For the zeal of Your house has eaten Me up; and the reproaches of those who reproached You have fallen on Me” (Psalms 69:9 MKJV).
Jeff, of course, would make the same argument as in the other questions. If those verses of that psalm all apply to Jesus, then what about this one:
“O God, You know my foolishness, and my guiltiness is not hidden from You” (Psalms 69:5 MKJV)?
Of course, it would apply. I answer as I did in questions one and two. Also, the Hebrew words for “foolishness” and “guiltiness” are such that Jesus would be subject to the flesh, not sinning, but weak and limited, and having to learn obedience. The word “sins” in the King James, for example, means “faults” and “guiltiness.” Being found in fashion as a man makes one automatically fall far short of God, Who is Spirit and unrestrained.
“Why is the speaker in Psalms 69.31 (who we have already established is Jesus) declaring that praise and thanksgiving will please God better than a sacrifice??????? Of all places for Jesus to bring this up (which would be strange enough in any event), isn’t this the strangest, right when he’s on the cross??????”
There is considerable confusion in this question. Here is the Scripture:
“This also shall please Jehovah better than an ox, or a bull that has horns and hoofs” (Psalms 69:31 MKJV).
This verse does not speak of just any sacrifice, but that of the animal sacrifices of the past. Now will come the Perfect Sacrifice, of the Accepted and Perfect One. Secondly, there is no sound reason to believe that the entire psalm was in reference to the Lord only while on the cross. Thirdly, if Jesus did have a trial of faith and expressed so, why is that so difficult to understand? If the writers of the gospels were trying to hide His necessary humanity, would they have recorded these words:
“And about the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46 MKJV)?
It is also written: “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Therefore when He comes into the world, He says, ‘Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You have prepared a body for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have had no pleasure. Then I said, Lo, I come (in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Your will, O God.’ Above, when He said, ‘Sacrifice and offering, and burnt offerings and offering for sin You did not desire, neither did You have pleasure in them’ (which are offered according to the Law), then He said, ‘Lo, I come to do Your will, O God.’ He takes away the first so that He may establish the second” (Hebrews 10:4-9).
Jeff never did believe, and when heeding the counsel of Jews uncircumcised in heart and ears, it was not difficult for them to finalize or cement his spiritual state of unbelief with spurious and biased argument.
“Why does God, in Jer. 31:29-30, make a point of stressing that ‘everyone will die for his own iniquity’ – immediately before introducing the new covenant, whereby Jesus will die for everyone else’s iniquity? Isn’t that a rather strange way for the ‘tutor to lead us to Christ’?”
The Scripture in question:
“In those days they shall not say any more, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the teeth of the sons are dull. But every man shall die in his iniquity. Every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be dull” (Jeremiah 31:29-30 MKJV).
Truly, some of these questions become silly. What is so contradictory about people dying in their own sins? Death has come upon all men, the Bible says, “for all have sinned.” The tutor to which Jeff refers is the Law of God. By the Law, all must die. The tutor was perfect, and intended to slay us. We are tutored not theoretically, but experientially. We experience the real thing, both sides of the coin. That is the only way we will come to perfection. By the Law, I died, and Christ raised me from the dead. That is the lot of every man. However, Jesus Christ is the Resurrection, as He demonstrated. There is sure hope of deliverance from death, even for Jeff and his counselors, who also will die for their own sins, only to be raised from the dead! Praise God!
As to Jesus dying for the sins of others, that is the way it is. It is quite obvious that “everyone” to whom God was referring, by Jeremiah, did not include God Himself!
“When does the new covenant of Jer. 31:31 come into effect? If it was 2,000 years ago, why hasn’t the first 3/4 of verse 34 happened yet?”
Jeremiah 31:31 and the context verses are:
“Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. And they shall no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more” (Jeremiah 31:31-34 MKJV).
If Jeff had known salvation as he claimed, he would have known that the New Covenant came into effect the moment he believed. Read Our Testimonies. As to the fulfilment of all knowing the Lord, Paul writes:
“But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved), and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus” (Ephesians 2:4-7 MKJV).
There is nothing in Scripture or in true Christian doctrine saying that all would come to pass the moment Jesus was raised from the dead. Am I answering the questions of fools? So it seems. It is also written:
“For it pleased the Father that in Him all fullness should dwell. And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile all things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven” (Colossians 1:19-20 MKJV).
All things and people will be reconciled, even though it takes ages as planned. Jeff, you are like the one who says, “Dad, you promised me a cruise trip an hour ago. Well, where is it?”
“Why will there be sin sacrifices when the messiah comes, when the New Testament is adamant that there won’t be? (Hebrews 9:28; Heb. 10:10,12,14,18; Ezekiel 3:18,19,21,22,25; Ezek.44: 27, 29; Ezek. 45:17,20,22,23,25)”
There will be sacrifices, but of praise and thanksgiving, and not of animals. However, I fail to see where you see any mention of sacrifice “when the Messiah comes” in the passages you quote, unless you refer to those words which I highlight, which have nothing to do with sacrifice whatsoever. They simply speak of blood guiltiness:
“When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you do not give him warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked one shall die in his iniquity; but I will require his blood at your hand. Yet if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. And when the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and when I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die. Because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. But if you warn the righteous so that the righteous does not sin, and if he does not sin, he shall surely live because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul. And the hand of Jehovah was on me there. And He said to me, Arise, go out into the plain, and I will talk with you there. Then I arose and went out into the plain; and, behold, the glory of Jehovah stood there, like the glory which I saw by the river Chebar. And I fell on my face. And the Spirit entered into me and set me on my feet; and spoke with me, and said to me, Go, shut yourself inside your house! But you, O son of man, behold, they shall put bands on you and shall bind you with them, and you shall not go out among them” (Ezekiel 3:18-25 MKJV).
“And in the day that he goes into the sanctuary, to the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, says the Lord Jehovah. And it shall be to them for an inheritance. I am their inheritance. And you shall give them no possession in Israel; I am their possession. They shall eat the food offering, and the sin offering, and the guilt offering; and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs” (Ezekiel 44:27-29 MKJV).
It is written: “Then Jesus says to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Whoever partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who partakes of My flesh and drinks My blood dwells in Me, and I in him. As the living Father has sent Me, and I live through the Father, so he who partakes of Me, even he shall live by Me” (John 6:53-57 MKJV).
The apostle Paul wrote:
“Therefore let no one glory in men. For all things are yours, whether it is Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (1 Corinthians 3:21-23 MKJV).
I know that ALL things are mine, because I have it all now. I have learned the true meaning of those words. This did not happen when I was first converted, except in part, but when the Lord brought me to rest in Him. These words are true. I am a witness to their veracity.
Ezekiel here speaks of the fulfilment of a new heart, of a new life in Christ, speaking in figurative terms. Note that he prophesies, “I am their inheritance…I am their possession…and EVERY dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.” That can only happen with a new life in Christ. Doubtless, Jeff will accuse me of “mistranslating, or imposing a pre-conceived notion.” So be it. Believe, or don’t believe, Jeff. Not believing is your problem, is it not?
Paul Cohen writes:
The Scriptures declare that it was only necessary for a one-time sacrifice of the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.
That does not negate our part in the laying down of our lives (those who believe and follow the Lamb of God). He empowers us to do so.
“I beseech you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is that good and pleasing and perfect will of God” (Romans 12:1-2).
Salvation is a work of God by a process of faith and obedience. It is not a verbal formula, as falsely taught by nominal Christianity. Nor is it possible by works of the flesh, as Judaism, so called, and “Christianity” teach. Though it is not by our works, there is a cost, in obedience, there will be suffering, and ultimately, there will be a realization of the victory won, once and for all, by the perfect Son of God, through faith in Him, and not in our own alleged, inherent goodness or ability to keep the law. With that victory will come the power to keep the law and to be acceptable to God in all our sacrifices, which neither Jews nor Christians in name only have ever been able to achieve outside of union with God in Jesus Christ.
I also note that in one of your questions later on in this document, you seem to suggest that God did not want sacrifices at all, according to the Hebrew Scriptures (See question number 37). If you will argue that sacrifices are for other purposes than sin, what then might those purposes be? Does God need your animal sacrifices for any reason?
Jeff asks: “Why is Torah law going forth from Zion in the messianic age, in the sight of all the nations of the world, instead of Jesus, if the law is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Isaiah 2.3, Micah 4.2)”
“And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob. And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths. For out of Zion shall go out the Law, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem” (Isaiah 2:3 MKJV).
And: “But it shall be in the last days the mountain of the house of Jehovah shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it. And many nations shall come and say, Come and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob. And He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths; for the Law shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. And He shall judge between many peoples, and will decide for strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, And they shall not still learn war” (Micah 4:1-3 MKJV).
What wonderful passages! What wonderful Words of promise from God by His anointed prophets! In “the Messianic age,” the Law does indeed go forth. I am now “in the Messianic age,” having been redeemed from among men by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Law does indeed go forth even as I speak, because I speak the Law of God. There are those who say that the Law was done away. They are wicked fools who know nothing. There are appointed certain to believe and receive the words that we speak, and those too will enter, in due time, into the glory reserved for them. The Scripture says:
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ’s at His coming; then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power” (1 Corinthians 15:22-24 MKJV).
Paul Cohen writes:
To fulfill the Law does not mean, or imply, that it is replaced. If I gave you the money to meet a contractual agreement, it does not mean the agreement is not in effect. It only means you can now pay your obligation, and fulfill the agreement yourself. Jeff makes assumptions that are not valid, because he cannot see, and worse, does not want to see.
Both Old and New Testaments teach that the Law is holy and good, and not a curse at all. These are surely foolish questions, the questions of a bitter and darkened soul, who knows nothing but to fight for dear death! What the Bible does teach is that in our unsaved, unregenerate, fallen state, the Law becomes a curse to us because while we know we are to keep it, we do not have the power to do so. Therefore is it a curse. However, that is exactly why Christ died for us, to deliver us from “the curse of the Law.”
“Why are the Jews keeping (DOING) the Torah law in the messianic age, if it is a curse and Jesus has fulfilled and replaced it? (Ezek. 37.24)”
The Law is not a curse when we have the new nature to keep it, Jeff. That is what is called “grace,” the nature and ability to keep the Law. As it is written:
“And David My servant shall be King over them. And there shall be one Shepherd to all of them. And they shall walk in My judgments, and obey My Laws, and do them” (Ezekiel 37:24 MKJV).
And: “Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” (Jeremiah 31:31-33 MKJV).
Those who have taught you that the Law in and of itself is a curse, or that it is done away, have done you injustice. They are liars or fools.
“Why is no one who is uncircumcised IN THE FLESH allowed to enter the temple in the messianic age, if ‘neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything,’ according to Paul? (Gal.5.6, Ezek. 44.7) Whose opinion should I trust, Paul’s or God’s?”
Here is the passage to which is referred:
“And you shall say to the rebellious, to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord Jehovah: O house of Israel, let it be more than enough for you, of all your hateful deeds, that you have brought strangers, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to profane it, even My house, when you offer My bread, the fat and the blood. And they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations. And you have not kept the charge of My holy things, but you have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for themselves” (Ezekiel 44:6-8 MKJV).
Who says anything of “the Messianic age” in this passage? Is not Ezekiel speaking of the past: “…that you have brought strangers…”
However, speaking with a higher understanding, there is the flesh, and there is the spirit, or the heart. When a man is washed in the Word of God, he is “every whit whole.” He is clean:
“Peter said to Him, You shall never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, Unless I wash you, you have no part with Me. Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and head. Jesus said to him, He who is bathed has no need except to wash his feet, but is clean every whit. And you are clean, but not all. For He knew who would betray Him. Therefore He said, You are not all clean” (John 13:8-11 MKJV).
And: “…that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word…” (Ephesians 5:26 MKJV)
Jeff refers to Paul’s words: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but faith working through love” (Galatians 5:6 MKJV).
Paul was teaching that it is not at all about circumcision in the flesh. How foolish can people be, thinking they can be pleasing to God by cutting off their foreskins! What about the women? What are they to do? Is that why you despise women, guys? Jeff, how holy do you feel without your foreskin? Has it done you any good?
In answer to the question, “Whose opinion should I trust, Paul’s or God’s?” I say this: God gives no opinion. You expose yourself every time you open your mouth. As to Paul, he also was giving no opinion, but was speaking by the Spirit of God. Believe them both, for they are one, and say the same thing.
Jeff asks another question, which I suspect I am to avoid, yet I feel I need to answer those who smugly ask it, deceiving others:
“Why does ‘forever’ have an expiration date in Christianity? (Romans 10.4; Ps. 119: 44, 111, 152, 160, 172, 142; Deut. 29.29)”
And you say you were once saved, Jeff? No way! If you had tasted salvation, you would not be able to ask such ignorant and foolish questions. The passages are:
“For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness for everyone who believes” (Romans 10:4 MKJV).
“And I shall keep Your Law continually forever and ever” (Psalms 119:44 MKJV).
The rest of the passages, Jeff provides to bring home the same point, that of the meaning of the word “forever.”
The phrase by Paul to the Romans does not mean that the Law was ended, but that Christ is the fulfilment of it, ending the failure of man to keep the Law righteously by trusting in his own power to do so. Christ IS the Law. Again, I am well aware that there are “believers” who teach that the Law was ended or done away.
You were deceived, Jeff, or if not, then you ought to know better than to pretend to uphold the Law yet speak to us as you do (which words are not recorded here), with foul mouth and hatred, contrary to the Law.
Furthermore, are you not aware that the Old Testament uses the word “forever” without the meaning of “time without end” as we use it today? It does so in several places. For example:
“For all the land which you see I will give to you, and to your seed forever” (Genesis 13:15 MKJV).
Did the Hebrews not lose it for 1900 years, besides the many times of bondage to other nations and empires such as Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome?
Jews may argue, “We have always had the land, and will have it in the end.” Would you like a better example? How about:
“…his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door or to the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall serve him forever” (Exodus 21:6 MKJV).
Will the man be his master’s slave “forever,” time without end? Here is another example:
“And this is what you shall offer upon the altar: two lambs of the first year day by day forever” (Exodus 29:38 MKJV).
Are you still doing so, Jeff? Are any Jews still doing so? Many are such passages in the Torah, concerning sacrifices. If “forever” means “forever,” then you are not obeying the command. Another example:
“He shall order the lamps on the pure lampstand before Jehovah forever” (Leviticus 24:4 MKJV). Are they burning, Jeff? Another example:
“An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of Jehovah. Even to their tenth generation they shall not enter into the congregation of Jehovah forever” (Deuteronomy 23:3 MKJV).
Jeff (and party), I will ask you: “Why does the word ‘forever’ have an expiration date in Judaism?”
In his bondage of cynicism and bitterness, Jeff asks:
“How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage if he did not have a human father? Can the ‘Holy Spirit’ be of the seed of David?”
He was born of a mother who was of the Davidic lineage, and his earthly stepfather also was of the lineage of David. In any case, God did bring His Son from that direction, His way. Who are you to argue or to be cynical? Is it any wonder that you are confused and bitter? You fight God and presume to come out unscathed? I don’t think so. Moreover, even in Israel today, they require the proof of a Jewish mother before a father, is that not so? So why ask what you ask?
He asks: “How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Joseph, if Joseph came through the cursed line of Jeconiah? (Jer. 22:28-30, Matt. 1.11,12)”
The whole human race has been under the curse from the fall, yet the Messiah came into it, and through it, to redeem it. In case you would like more fuel for your fire, let me remind you that by Judah’s fornication with his daughter-in-law, a child (Phares) was born, who also was Jesus’ ancestor. If you have this notion that God can’t overcome these things or work with and through them, you are wrong. The problem you more likely have is that you expect a perfect person, in his own right, to be the Messiah. Jesus’ perfection was in His own right, but as God, and not as man. You have your eyes on the flesh. That is the core of your problem.
Here are the passages to which you refer:
“Is this man Coniah a despised broken jar? Is he a vessel in which there is no pleasure? Why are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they do not know? O earth, earth, earth! Hear the Word of Jehovah! So says Jehovah, Write this man down as childless, a man who will not be blessed in his days. For no man of his seed shall be blessed, sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:28-30 MKJV).
“And Josiah fathered Jehoiachin (Coniah) and his brothers, at the time they were carried away to Babylon. And after the carrying away to Babylon, Jehoiachin (Coniah) fathered Shealtiel, and Shealtiel fathered Zerubbabel” (Matthew 1:11-12 MKJV).
Even if Coniah and Jehoiachin are the same, and I do not argue that they are not, what is the problem? God once spoke to Eliyah, saying He would destroy Ahab. Ahab repented, humbling himself before God, and God changed His mind, and said so. God promised things to others who, in disobedience, lost the fulfilment of those promises, as with Solomon. On the other hand, therefore, if men repent, why should not God give them blessing? Ezekiel and other prophets preached these very truths. If Jehoiachin repented in his prison and chastening of God, then fathered sons, why would not God’s Word be disannulled as at other times? Your arguments are vain.
Paul Cohen writes:
It is also evident that God had reversed the curse on Coniah in the blessings He gave to Zerubbabel, his grandson, which specifically uses the same unique imagery to illustrate.
“As I live, says the LORD, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon my right hand, yet would I pluck you out of there!” (Jeremiah 22:24)
“In that day, says the LORD of hosts, will I take you, O Zerubbabel, My servant, the son of Shealtiel, says the LORD, and will make you as a signet: for I have chosen you, says the LORD of hosts” (Haggai 2:23).
The problem for Bible worshippers of all stripes and colors is that they put the written Word above God Himself, for selfish purposes. By misapplying the Scriptures they judge God according to the letter of His words, which they do not understand because they do not love truth, “wresting the Scriptures to their own destruction” (11 Peter 3:16).
Jeff asks: “How can Jesus be qualified to be the messiah through Davidic lineage, even through Mary, if she came from Nathan, the wrong son of David, as well as from the cursed line? (Luke 3:31, 1 Chron. 22:9,10, Luke 3:27)”
Who says that Nathan is the “wrong” son of David? You? Rabbis? Tovia Singer? By what wisdom do you make such a judgment? As to the “cursed line,” we have answered. Are you not a “cursed line,” Jeff? Listen to you! Yet one day, God will have mercy on you as well, and it won’t be because you changed yourself. Rather, it will be because He decided to change you, in spite of yourself.
Paul Cohen writes:
Jesus physically came through Mary, and therefore was of the lineage of David. He shared the bloodline of the God-given kings of Israel as a “son of David.” More importantly, Jesus had the necessary spiritual lineage, being born of God, to fulfill the promises of God for David through Solomon, which men could not fulfill. Even from the beginning, Solomon, who was given such great promises by God, fell from grace by disobedience, with over half the kingdom taken away from his heirs. It is clear that the physical seed could not, and has not, fulfilled the promises of God’s eternal kingdom, ruling in peace and righteousness. Where are those kings now? Let us not lose sight of the bigger picture, while Jeff tries to find microscopic fault lines, imagining all kinds of things that are not even there.
As for Jesus’ inheritance through Solomon, as we have already seen, the curse of Jeconiah (Coniah or Jehoiachin) was reversed. There are some other considerations regarding the physical lineage by which this reversal came about, which we need not go into at this moment. More to the point, Jesus, as the Son of God, was the perfect fulfillment of the prophecies of the prophets (such as Nathan’s in 2 Samuel), by which God promised a perpetual kingdom through Solomon. The curse was pronounced on the SEED of Jeconiah. Jesus was NOT the physical seed of Jeconiah (or of any man). Jesus, by law, was the heir of Jeconiah, but not his physical seed.
This should not be a problem for anyone who believes. It is recorded in Scripture that the Messiah was more than a son of David. Jesus, quoting Scripture, said:
“What do you think of Christ? Whose son is He? They say to Him, David’s. He said to them, How then does David by the Spirit call Him Lord, saying, ‘the LORD said to my Lord, Sit on My right until I make Your enemies Your footstool for Your feet?’ If David then calls Him Lord, how is He his son?” (Matthew 22:42-45; Psalm 110:1)
The inheritance into the Kingdom of God is not through the flesh, but through the Spirit.
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed” (Romans 9:6-8).
“How could both Matthew’s and Luke’s genealogies be correct, and divinely inspired, even if they are of two different people, if they diverge (at Nathan and Solomon) and then come back together (at Shealtiel)? How can two brothers have the same grandchildren???”
Why not? Jeff, why waste time and bother to expend energy trying to get others to do your thinking for you when you are too lazy to do anything for yourself? Obviously, you haven’t thought this one through, not that it would help you if you did. Truth does not come by figuring it out, or having a perfectly understandable Bible. Neither does it come by trying to find fault foolishly.
“Why don’t the genealogies in the New Testament agree with each other, or with 1 Chronicles 3, which came first and CANNOT be incorrect?”
I have found many statistical errors in Scripture, and could list dozens here. Matthew alone has many. I have also found that the Truth is no less the Truth in spirit, law and principle because of them. I know the Lord Jesus Christ, and He has changed my life beyond human capability or imagination, logic or reasoning.
The rebellious, unbelieving mind will not listen though proof is in its face. Only three days after the miraculous Red Sea parting, when God had destroyed the entire Egyptian army, the people accused Moses of leading them into the wilderness to kill them. Just the day after God opened the earth and swallowed Korah, his family and all his goods, the people murmured against Moses and accused him of killing them:
“But on the next day all the congregation of the sons of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron saying, You have killed the people of Jehovah” (Numbers 16:41 MKJV).
When the Jews found out that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, they sought to kill both Him and Lazarus. That is where you are, Jeff, with murderers that seek their own will. That is why if we gave you absolute and perfect proof of the Bible and its testimony, you would still reject the truth because you reject God. That is the issue. Even the Torah does you no good. How can it?
Jeff asks: “Why is Paul so anxious for you to not study the genealogies? (1 Tim.1:4, Titus 3:9-11)”
I say that Paul is not anxious, but gives good advice. The passages are:
“…nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies (which provide doubts rather than the nurture of God in faith)” (1 Timothy 1:4 MKJV).
And: “But avoid foolish questions and genealogies and contentions, and strivings about the Law, for they are unprofitable and vain. After the first and second warning, reject a man of heresy, knowing that he who is such has been perverted, and sins, being self-condemned” (Titus 3:9-11 MKJV).
I almost feel like I am not heeding the apostle Paul’s advice, yet am constrained in spirit to speak and to address those who are described in the last sentence of the named passage, before I let them go their way. Paul advises me that these passages apply to those who are in the fold of believers, while Jeff is not a believer, and therefore we need to reply, not only for his sake, but for that of others.
Now Jeff asks: “Why does Hebrews 8.9 lie about what God said in Jer. 31.32?”
This is a man who claims he was once truly saved, speaking, calling the Scriptural testimony by which he was saved, a lie. How could he have been “truly saved” by a lie? Speak of confusion! The passages he cites are:
“Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah; but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” (Jeremiah 31:31-33 MKJV).
“…not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in My covenant, and I did not regard them, says the Lord” (Hebrews 8:9 MKJV).
I see no contradiction. However, if you think it ought to be a letter-perfect copy or quote, I can understand your foolish complaint, but we are not in the worship of the letter as were those who crucified the Christ, and as you pretend to be. The general truth is that the Old Covenant was not the answer, that the new would come, by Christ, to deliver those who could not keep the Old, which includes everybody, first the Jew, then the Gentile.
Again, Jeff asks: “Why does Hebrews 10.5 lie about what God said in Psalm 40.6?”
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened; burnt offering and sin offering You have not asked” (Psalms 40:6 MKJV).
“Therefore when He comes into the world, He says, ‘Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You have prepared a body for Me'” (Hebrews 10:5 MKJV).
Again, where is the lie? The writer is paraphrasing the same truth, that God was not interested in animal sacrifices in and of themselves, but that they pointed to the sacrifice of His Son in the fulness of time.
Paul Cohen writes:
The next verse from the Psalmist provides the second half of the Hebrews quote:
“Then I said, Lo, I come, in the volume of the Book it is written of Me” (Psalms 40:7), corresponding to “You have prepared a body for me.”
Again, defensive nitpickers scrutinizing every letter in every slot are left holding an empty bag, while the children have plenty of meat to eat.
“Why does 2 Corinthians 3 lie about what God said in Exodus 34.29-35?”
“And it happened as Moses was going down from the mountain of Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony being in Moses’ hand as he went down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face had become luminous through His speaking with him. And Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face had become luminous. And they were afraid to come near him. And Moses called to them. And Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned to him, and Moses talked with them. And afterward all the sons of Israel came near. And he commanded them all that Jehovah had spoken with him in Mount Sinai. And Moses finished speaking with them, and he put a veil on his face. But when Moses went in before Jehovah to speak with Him, he took the veil off until he came out. And he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel that which he was commanded. And the sons of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face had become luminous. And Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with Him” (Exodus 34:29-35 MKJV).
The apostle Paul writes, by the understanding given him of God:
“But if the ministry of death, having been engraved in letters in stone was with glory (so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses because of the glory of his face), which was being done away; shall not the ministry of the Spirit be with more glory? For if the ministry of condemnation is glorious, much more does the ministry of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if that which has been done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious. Then since we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech. And we are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of the thing being done away. (But their thoughts were blinded; for until the present the same veil remains on the reading of the old covenant, not taken away.) But this veil has been done away in Christ. But until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart. But whenever it turns to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. And the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with our face having been unveiled, having beheld the glory of the Lord as in a mirror, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord Spirit” (2 Corinthians 3:7-18 MKJV).
Where is the lie, Jeff? Am I wasting my time chasing silly rabbits? Because you cannot comprehend air, does that make it a lie?
“Why does John 19.37 lie about what God said in Zech 12.10?”
“And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born” (Zechariah 12:10 MKJV).
“And again another Scripture says, ‘They shall look upon Him whom they pierced'” (John 19:37 MKJV).
I take it from all these questions, Jeff, that you have a legalistic spirit, the Pharisaic kind, that cannot bear to have translation, transliteration or paraphrase. So what good has your Toraholatry done you? I fail to see “the lie.”
“Why does Romans 9.33 and 2 Pet. 2.8 lie about what God said in Isaiah 28.16?”
“…therefore so says the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I place in Zion a Stone for a foundation, a tried Stone, a precious Cornerstone, a sure Foundation; he who believes shall not hurry” (Isaiah 28:16 MKJV).
“…as it is written, ‘Behold, I lay in Zion a Stumbling-stone and a Rock-of-offense, and everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame'” (Romans 9:33 MKJV).
“For having been drawn to Him, a living Stone, indeed rejected by men, but elect, precious with God” (1 Peter 2:4 MKJV). (By the way, you quoted the wrong reference.)
It is written: “He that hastens with his feet, sins.” He that believes does not hurry, thereby sinning and bringing shame to himself. I am in rest, believing. What is the problem? Again, if the letter is all-important to you, then you are dead in your sins, and will remain so. Life has no value in you. Jesus said, “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
Paul Cohen writes:
While precious to those who believe, what else can the only tried and true Foundation be to those who do not believe, except a “Stumbling-stone” and “Rock of offense”? Is that not what is happening here?
And have you people not read the rest of Isaiah 28?
“Now therefore don’t be scoffers, lest your bonds be made strong; for I have heard a decree of destruction from the Lord, the LORD of Armies, on the whole earth” (Isaiah 28:22).
“Why does Romans 10.6-8 lie about what God said in Deut. 30.12-14? Why does it leave out Deut. 30.11, and the last half of verses 12, 13, and 14???”
Deuteronomy 30:11-14 MKJV
(11) For this commandment which I command you today is not hidden from you, neither is it far off.
(12) It is not in Heaven, that you should say, Who shall go up for us to Heaven, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and do it?
(13) Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, Who shall go over the sea for us to the region beyond the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and do it?
(14) But the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
“But the righteousness of faith says this: Do not say in your heart, ‘Who shall ascend into Heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down; or ‘Who shall descend into the deep?’ that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead. But what does it say? ‘The Word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart’; that is, the Word of Faith which we proclaim” (Romans 10:6-8 MKJV).
Jeff, where is the lie? Paul interprets the Scriptures, giving the sense of their meaning, even as the priests did for the people in the Old Testament. “And they read in the Book of the Law of God, clearly. And they gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading” (Nehemiah 8:8 MKJV).
What is the problem? Not all those who read or hear Moses understand/believe him, only those who believe God. Jesus said to your forefathers who claimed to believe Moses:
“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you, Moses, in whom you trust. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My Words?” (John 5:45-47 MKJV)
Jeff, if men came to lie and to deceive, why would they make themselves so obvious by openly contradicting themselves as you claim? You and your companions are the fools to think that they would be such fools. Furthermore, why would they all forsake their very lives to preach lies? With what gain?
If the writers of the New Testament were to repeat the Old Testament word for word, you would call them copycats and unoriginal phonies. It is written:
“And the Lord said, To what then shall I compare the men of this generation? And to what are they like? They are like children sitting in a market and calling to one another, and saying, We have played the flute to you, and you have not danced; we have mourned to you, and you did not weep. For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, He has a demon. The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, Behold a gluttonous man and a winebibber, a friend of tax-collectors and sinners! But wisdom has been justified by all her children” (Luke 7:31-35 MKJV).
“Why does Romans 11:26-27 lie about what God said in Isaiah 59:20-21?”
“A Redeemer will come to Tziyon, and to those who turn from disobedience in Ya`akov, says the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, says the LORD: My Spirit who is on you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, nor out of the mouth of your seed, nor out of the mouth of your seed’s seed, says the LORD, from henceforth and forever” (Isaiah 59:20-21 HNV).
“…and so all Yisra’el will be saved. Even as it is written, ‘There will come out of Tziyon the Deliverer, and he will turn away ungodliness from Ya`akov. This is my covenant to them, when I will take away their sins'” (Romans 11:26-27 HNV).
The same pattern of erroneous and convoluted thinking exists here as in the previous six questions. There is no lie and no contradiction.
I would like to make yet another point, and that is that prophecy often seems to be fulfilled only in part, and the fulfillment can only be understood by the help of the Spirit of God. For example, when Peter stood up at Pentecost to speak just after he and over a hundred with him received the Spirit of God, he plainly declared that what was happening was what Joel had prophesied would happen. Peter was referring to these words:
“Be glad then, sons of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God. For He has given you the former rain according to righteousness, and He will cause the rain to come down for you, the former rain and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years which the swarming locust has eaten, the locust larvae, and the stripping locust, and the cutting locust, My great army which I sent among you. And you shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of Jehovah your God, who has dealt with you wonderfully; and My people shall never be ashamed. And you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am Jehovah your God, and no one else; and My people shall never be ashamed. And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams; your young men shall see visions. And also I will pour out My Spirit on the slaves and on the slave women in those days. And I will show wonders in the heavens, and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah. And it shall be, whoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be saved; for salvation shall be in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, as Jehovah has said, and in the remnant whom Jehovah shall call” (Joel 2:23-32).
Of that prophecy by Joel, Peter had specifically mentioned the following words, which he said were being fulfilled at Pentecost:
“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel: ‘And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. And in those days I will pour out My Spirit upon My slaves and My slave women, and they shall prophesy. And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and glorious Day of the Lord. And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved'” (Acts 2:16-21).
On that day Peter spoke, one did not see literal blood and fire and vapor of smoke. One did not literally see the sun turned dark, or the moon turn into blood. The carnal man would accuse the Book of Acts of “telling a lie” concerning Joel’s prophecy. On the other hand, Peter and those with him were speaking in other tongues (miraculous languages), which Joel did not mention. Was Peter or the writer of Acts (Luke) making a liar of Joel? What Peter was giving was his description of what was happening, with some details that Joel did not give. That is the case with all these questions Jeff is asking. The whole first chapter and all of the second of Joel was happening on that day at Pentecost and the days following. Most prophecy is figurative, and never understood by one who has not the Spirit of God. Even those with the Spirit do not understand a prophecy or vision until it is fulfilled.
“Why does Matt. 12.21 lie about what God said in Isaiah 42.4? Why does he leave out what it really says – ‘He will not be disheartened or crushed until he has established justice in the earth’?”
Same answer as previous six.
“Why does Matt. 1.12 lie about what God said in 1 Chron. 3.19?”
Paul Cohen writes:
Matthew doesn’t. Here are the Scriptures:
“And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel [Shealtiel] begat Zorobabel” (Matthew 1:12).
And: “And the sons of Pedaiah: Zerubbabel and Shimei. And the sons of Zerubbabel: Meshullam and Hananiah, and Shelomith their sister” (1 Chronicles 3:19).
Unless Nehemiah is also lying:
“And these are the priests and the Levites who went up with Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua, Seraiah, Jeremiah, Ezra.” (Nehemiah 12:1).
There is an explanation. Some people have researched this and have found plausible explanations for how these genealogies are true, and yet at the same time appear to be incompatible. I have that information if any care to see it. Jeff, you are not interested in the truth. You are willing to “cut off your nose to spite your own face.” Where is this getting you?
While we are not trying to prove the Old Testament wrong, nor are we trying to make it measure up to the New, your approach, method of interpretation, or lack thereof, can just as easily render the Old Testament faulty as it can the New.
“Why does Matt. 2.6 lie about what God said in Micah 5.2?”
The one pointing the finger is surely guilty and in torment. No lie, no contradiction.
“Why does Luke 4:18-19 lie about what God said in Isaiah 61:1-2?”
There is no lie and no contradiction. Lies appear where liars wish them to be. Of this letter of questions, no words are more applicable than these:
“This witness is true; for which cause convict them sharply, so that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish myths and commandments of men, turning away from the truth. To the pure all things are pure. But to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God, but in their works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient and reprobate to every good work” (Titus 1:13-16).
“In Romans 9:24-26, why does Paul leave out the first part of Hosea 1.10, which tells us that the verses he is quoting (the second half of Hosea 1.10, and Hosea 2.23), refer to the sons of Israel?”
First, Jeff does not know that it is not those who are circumcised in the flesh that are Jews (sons of Abraham), though they be his progeny in the flesh (as are the Arabs, through Abraham’s son, Ishmael), but those who are circumcised in the heart, sons of Abraham by faith, they are the “sons of Israel.” Therefore Paul is not ignoring the first half of Hosea 1:10, but explaining it.
Second, Paul does indeed mention the first half of Hosea’s verse, on more than one occasion, and in more than one way. One of those is in the very next verse of Romans 9, verse 27, this time quoting from Isaiah 10:27:
“Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, ‘Though the number of the sons of Israel is as the sands of the sea, a remnant shall be saved'” (Romans 9:27).
Paul Cohen writes:
Hosea prophesied of the children of Israel being as numerous as the sand of the sea (1:10), and further on (2:23), in those verses cited here, reveals how this is possible, through expanding the family of God to include those of the Gentile nations. God also spoke of this through Isaiah:
“And He said, It is a light thing that You should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give You for a light to the Gentiles, that You may be My salvation unto the end of the earth” (Isaiah 49:6).
The promise to Abraham was that he would be a father to many nations (they would become the children of Israel). Why do those who ask these questions not believe the testimony of that which they claim to be the only true Bible?
“Why does Matt. 2.15 leave out the first half of Hosea 11.1, which says that Israel is God’s son?”
“When Israel was a child, then I loved him and called My son out of Egypt” (Hosea 11:1 MKJV).
“And he was there until the death of Herod; so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the LORD through the prophet, ‘Out of Egypt I have called My Son'” (Matthew 2:15 MKJV).
You assume Matthew was playing games, Jeff? By the Holy Spirit of God, he stated a fact. Israel was God’s son, whom He had called out of Egypt. Jesus Christ too is His Son, Whom He called out of Egypt. “Israel” also means, “ruling with God.” Tell me, have you seen Israel, as a nation, ruling with God? Jesus, in His earthly days, certainly ruled with God. Matthew had no problem with any of that. You can only surmise he did, to justify your unbelief.
“Where in the Hebrew scriptures is the verse, ‘And he shall be called a Nazarene,’ quoted in Matthew 2.23?”
“And he came and lived in a city called Nazareth, so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, ‘He shall be called a Nazarene'” (Matthew 2:23 MKJV).
The Hebrew Scriptures make reference to other Scriptures of prophets that are not included in the Old Testament canon, such as the Book of Jasher, for example. Where are they? In the New Testament, Jude refers to the prophecies of Enoch. The Hebrew Scriptures record somewhat of Enoch, but not his prophecies. Where are his prophecies? Because there are books missing from the Hebrew Scriptures, the Old Testament, does not mean that they did not exist, or that they should have been included in the canon as it exists. None of this bothers us because we believe. It bothers you because you don’t believe.
Paul Cohen writes:
Does anyone truly believe that Matthew would make up a reference that did not exist? If he were a liar, which he was not, would he give reference to his audience of something that was not a valid fact, thereby losing credibility? Of course not. It does not make sense at all, and no sane person would consider otherwise. The problem for Jeff is that taking an adamant position to deny and disprove truth is insane, and leads to utter unreasonableness.
Reason is only possible for those who have not sold out their sanity for lies.
It has been noted by many already that the root word for “Nazareth” is the same as the word used by Isaiah for a “branch” or “shoot,” as in:
“And a Shoot goes out from the stump of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots” (Isaiah 11:1).
In other words, “He shall be called a ‘Branch.'”
In other notable prophecies by two other prophets (making a total of at least 3 who prophesied this), the Messiah is referred to as the “Branch.”
“In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land” (Jeremiah 33:15).
“And speak unto him, saying, Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD” (Zechariah 6:12).
The word used in these references is not the same as Isaiah 11, but the description is the same and obviously refers to the same calling. There is often more than one word to describe the same thing. The reference to the Messiah as the Branch is the issue here.
If there is some other meaning to the reference, that is fine with me. It is possible because there are also prophets who said things that were recorded, but which we do not have available to us today. Here are three mentioned, for example, in one Scripture reference:
“And the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah of Shiloh, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?” (2 Chronicles 9:29) And what of the Book of Jasher and the prophecies of Enoch?
Therefore, it is possible that there are other prophecies that use the word “Nazarene” in another way. For those who believe, it does not negate their faith to not know. For those who don’t believe, it is impossible to have faith regardless of the quantity of Scripture proofs, or even the most potent of proofs, seeing someone raised from the dead.
You think you have not seen someone raised from the dead? We, speaking these words of faith to you here and now, have been raised from the dead. And, as Isaiah faithfully prophesied:
“Who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?” (Isaiah 53:1)
“Why are the holy and inspired men of the New Testament so ignorant of the Hebrew scriptures?”
That is a foolish question, posed by ignorance. Judging by your questions, who are you to judge them? You ought to learn from them, but you don’t even have the grace and ability of a student, much less a teacher, least of all a critic.
“Why doesn’t Jesus himself know his own scripture, if he’s God and he wrote it? (Math. 23.35; Zech 1.1,2; 2 Chron 24.20,21)”
Here are the Scriptures:
“…so that on you may come all the righteous blood being shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar” (Matthew 23:35).
“In the eighth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,” (Zechariah 1:1)
“And the Spirit of God came on Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, who stood above the people and said to them, So says God, Why do you transgress the commandments of Jehovah so that you cannot be blessed? Because you have forsaken Jehovah, He has also forsaken you. And they conspired against him and stoned him with stones at the command of the king in the court of the house of Jehovah” (2 Chronicles 24:20-21).
What Jeff, or the author of this question, is pointing out is that Zechariah son of Jehoiada is the one referred to by Jesus, not Zechariah son of Berechiah whom He named as being slain between the temple and the altar. There could be several explanations for this apparent discrepancy.
The most likely one is that Jesus never gave the name of the father. A scribe added the name of Zechariah’s father in a later revision to the original manuscript, mistakenly putting in Berechiah. The Gospel of Luke does not have the name of the father, and I am told neither does the Sinaitic version of the Gospel of Matthew, supposedly the oldest version available.
Less likely, but possible, is that Zechariah son of Berechiah also was slain in similar manner to the earlier Zechariah son of Jehoida. Certainly many prophets were killed, and nothing of what the Lord said is diminished no matter what the case is here. Jesus was addressing the spirit of those who persecuted His servants irrespective of time and place. There has been one Lord God from time immemorial, and one adversarial spirit of rebellion in mankind. Notice that He said that those in His day were being held accountable for murders that took place even thousands of years before. The religious have blood guiltiness on their hands and heads because of their treatment of the Lord, which is counted towards Him in whatever is done to His servants.
On another note, the idea that the Lord had, in His flesh, some kind of infallible memory, or a perfect and complete knowledge of everything, because He was God, is a wrongheaded notion. Jesus was a man in all manner made like us. He was subject to the same weaknesses, limitations, and total dependence on the grace of God to live. It is for this reason that we can have hope. Jesus Christ, as a man in sinful flesh, overcame death (disconnection from God) for us all. We can now live, reconciled to God, not as supermen, but as people connected to God in Christ, by grace accepting our limitations and circumstances as we grow into the children of God by His Spirit, manifesting His spiritual glory in these earthen vessels.
First, is it not clearly recorded that Jesus was found in fashion as a man? Is it not recorded that He took upon Himself human frailty? Would it be strange therefore if He did something that seemed incompatible with the nature of God, as when at age 12, He left His parents, not considering that they might be concerned?
Second, is it not possible that there might be an error on Matthew’s part of the record? There certainly are others, as I have mentioned. How then shall you blame it on Jesus? You set yourself up as judge, a sarcastic and cynical one at that, and ask stupid questions, befitting a fool who has no right to sit in the seat of judgment.
“Why does Jesus lie in Math. 5.43 about what God said in Lev. 19.18?”
Who said Jesus was referring to that passage? He said:
“You have heard that it was said (not written), ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy'” (Matthew 5:43 MKJV).
He that calls the Lord, his Creator, a liar is a liar himself. He that curses the Lord is cursed himself.
“Why does Jesus change God’s law (Math. 5.32, Luke 16.18 – declaring every legally divorced woman an adulteress, and every man married to a legally divorced woman an adulterer), if ‘I did not come to abolish the law,’ and ‘whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven?’ (Math. 5.17,19)”
“It was also said, Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a bill of divorce. But I say to you that whoever shall put away his wife, except for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry her who is put away commits adultery” (Matthew 5:31-32 MKJV).
Jesus did not change, or try to change, the Law, quite the contrary. For instance, He said:
“You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘You shall not kill’ –and, ‘Whoever shall kill shall be liable to the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the Sanhedrin; but whoever shall say, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of hell” (Matthew 5:21-22 MKJV).
Jesus promoted the Law to the very spirit of it, informing those to whom He spoke that the fulfilment of the letter in the outward appearance was not nearly enough. That is why He said that unless one’s righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees (who were good at appearances but utterly vain in substance, even as these questioners) one would in no way enter the Kingdom. He was teaching, in essence, that unless one is changed in heart and nature, to do that which is right by nature, and not by imitation, one would be excluded from the Kingdom.
Concerning divorce and adultery, the same question, in different words, was posed to Jesus in the following passage:
“And tempting Him, the Pharisees came to Him and asked Him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? And He answered and said to them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses allowed a bill of divorce to be written, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said to them, He wrote you this precept because of the hardness of your hearts. But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife. And the two of them shall be one flesh. So then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man put apart. And in the house His disciples asked Him again about the same. And He said to them, Whoever shall put away his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband and marries to another, she commits adultery” (Mark 10:2-12 MKJV).
Moses relented with those who, with hardness of heart, put away their wives. He knew it was not going to change anything to force a couple to remain together with such hardness. Keeping married couples together against their wills could even lead to murder. But according to the spirit of the Law, according to God’s original intent, they were committing adultery if divorcing.
Jesus did not change the Law of God. He restored its meaning and high and perfect requirement. He was revealing the implications of divorce, regardless of the permission granted.
Now, Jeff, man full of hatred, where does that put you if Jesus is right, and He is? Is it possible that you have decided to condemn the Truth because of your bitterness? You are a murderer, Jeff, because you hate. You are full of hatred, desperately so. The readership has not seen your letters to us, and the vile language you use. Does it serve you well to ask foolish and ignorant questions to discount the Truth of God? If you are in bitterness over the little that has happened to you, why labor intensely for more? If you cannot stand being in a pit up to your head, how will you stand it seven times deeper?
“Why do most Christian translators lie about what God said in Hosea 14.2, and change His words, ‘take away all iniquity… that we may present our lips as bulls’ (demonstrating that prayer substitutes for sacrifice) to ‘… the fruit of our lips?’”
Calves and bulls were the sacrifices. The Modern King James, for example, says:
“Take with you words, and turn to Jehovah. Say to Him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously, that we may repay with the calves of our lips” (Hosea 14:2 MKJV).
The righteous fruit of the lips is the honor of God with speech, be it prayer, thanksgiving, testimony, or praise. Such sacrifice of the lips is the true offering, and the kind desired of God. Apparently you have a problem with that. You despise the true sacrifice unto God and instead, give Him the very opposite. And there are those, in the name of truth and religion, who support you in your hate? They then are no better. Woe to them!
Again, why would New Testament writers, if they were intent on lying and deception, make it so obvious? Do you really think that you have been so discerning and scrupulous as to find bona fide inconsistencies? You are foolish, Jeff, along with those who gave you these questions to send to us.
“Why do Christians never mention verses like Hosea 14.2 or 1 Kings 8:44-52 or 2 Sam 12:13 or Lev. 5:11-13 or Ps. 32.5 or Isaiah 6.6-7 which demonstrate that one does not need a blood sacrifice to have their sins forgiven, or verses like Proverbs 21.3 or Psalms 40.6 or Hosea 6.6 or Psalms 69:30-31 or 1 Sam. 15.22 which say clearly that God actually PREFERS other methods of atonement to blood sacrifice, or Jeremiah 7:22-23 which goes so far as to say that God NEVER EVEN COMMANDED US ABOUT SACRIFICES???”
First, what “Christians” are you talking about? There are close to a billion and a half so-called Christians who say many things, mostly false. There are many Jews that say all kinds of things. Shall I quote to you Karl Marx, or Lenin, or Trotsky? Shall I quote to you Kahane, or Caiaphas, or Freud? Do all Jews agree with these? And if we speak of religion rather than race, do all Jews teach the same? So why throw out “red herrings” to cause dissension and contention? Why be so stupid? Why be so wicked? Why destroy yourself, and pull down a third of your associates with you, only to be destroyed?
Second, we are not at all reticent, as Christians who truly know the Lord, to quote those verses you cite, and we do so, often. So in our case, it is a lie to say that “Christians,” as if all, do, or do not do, those things. You ask, “Why all the lies from the New Testament, from Christians, from the apostle Paul, Matthew, and from Jesus Himself?” yet it ought to be plain to any objective reader and thinker, that you, Jeff, are the liar. Why do you falsely accuse and condemn others for lying offenses of which you are guilty and they are not?
Let the reader look up those Scriptures you cite, if he or she so wishes. What God was saying by Jeremiah, for example, is that it was not at all about the sacrifice of bulls, lambs and goats. These were merely shadows of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, informing mankind that their relationship with God was a life and death matter, not something to take at all lightly.
However, I will ask you a question, Jeff:
You condemn the New Testament and Christians for contradicting the Hebrew Scriptures. Now you appear to condemn the declaration of the Hebrew Scriptures, which testify to the command of God, through Moses and the Levitical priesthood, to offer sacrifices. Are you now calling them liars too? You may as well. You have already gone all the way to damning yourself.
If your contention is that Jesus Christ did not have to die because a blood sacrifice was not really necessary, it is a foolish notion indeed, in light of the Hebrew Scripture declarations. For example, Exodus 12:1-14, of which I will quote you a few of the verses:
“Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You shall take from the sheep or from the goats. And you shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month. And the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. And they shall take some of the blood and strike on the two side posts and upon the upper doorpost of the houses in which they shall eat it” (Exodus 12:5-7 MKJV).
“And the blood shall be a sign to you upon the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you. And the plague shall not be upon you for a destruction when I smite in the land of Egypt. And this day shall be a memorial to you. And you shall keep it as a feast to Jehovah throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by a law forever” (Exodus 12:13-14 MKJV).
And what about the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, the most solemn feast day of the year, wherein the high priest entered into the Holy of holies on the tenth day of the seventh month, offering blood sacrifice for the atonement of sins? These sacrifices, along with many others, signified the coming sacrifice of the Son of God, Who laid His life down for you, Jeff, Whom you revile in all your evil, and call everyone but yourself (a liar of liars) a liar, including God. Satan has filled your heart with great darkness and evil, and if any succor you in your state, they too are surely instruments of Satan, the destroyer.
“Why are there numerous stories in the torah of people who sinned, and were forgiven through prayer and repentance – WITHOUT A SACRIFICE, such as David in 2 Sam 12:13, or the city of Nineveh in Jonah – and not a single story, ever, of someone who sinned and gave a sacrifice in order to be forgiven?”
Again, God was after a heart for Him, and was never after sacrifice. After all, He knew full well that any sacrifice man could give would never make atonement for sin. He Himself had to provide that sacrifice, and provide it He did, even from the foundation of the world. As Peter said, by the Spirit of God:
“…knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, those believing in God through Him, He Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope might be in God” (1 Peter 1:18-21 MKJV).
Paul wrote: “…according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He has made us accepted in the One having been loved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace, which He caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding; having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself…” (Ephesians 1:4-9 MKJV).
It was a done deal from the very beginning, Jeff. What good would our many and measly sacrifices do? Only His one and only one, the perfect and acceptable one, had any value. The sacrifices were instituted by God through Moses, not to pay a debt, but to demonstrate that sin was “dead” serious. The debt was already paid.
As to your assertion that sacrifices were not required for the remission of sins, you are wrong. I have already mentioned the Day of Atonement. What do you think that was all about? Was it not on that day that the high priest and elders laid their hands on the head of the goat, confessing their sins and the sins of Israel, then sent the goat by a capable man into the wilderness? Was there not another goat slain that day as well, to atone for the sins of the high priest and others? It was indeed required, and when performed, the forgiveness was there as promised. Had they not obeyed the commands of sacrifices, do you really think it would have gone well for them? Not at all. That too is recorded.
There are so many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures that speak of sacrifices required to atone for sin. For example:
“And the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin that he has sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him. And the rest shall be the priest’s, as a food offering. And Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, If a soul commits a trespass and sins through ignorance in the holy things of Jehovah, then he shall bring for his trespass to Jehovah a ram without blemish out of the flock, together with an amount set by you, by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering. And he shall make it good in which he has sinned, in the holy thing, and he shall add the fifth part of it, and give it to the priest. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him. And if a soul sins, and he has done that which ought not to be done, any one from all the commands of Jehovah, and does not know, and he is guilty and bears his iniquity; then he shall bring a ram without blemish out of the flock, at your evaluation, for a trespass offering, to the priest. And the priest shall make an atonement for him for his ignorance in which he erred without knowing it, and it shall be forgiven him. It is a trespass offering. He has certainly trespassed against Jehovah” (Leviticus 5:13-19 MKJV).
The Hebrew Scriptures are full of such examples. Did not David make a sacrifice to God to appease His wrath? Read:
“And Jehovah sent a plague upon Israel from the morning even till the time appointed. And there died from the people, from Dan to Beer-sheba, seventy thousand men. And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah turned from the evil, and said to the angel who destroyed the people, Enough! And stay your hand. And the angel of Jehovah was by the threshing-place of Araunah the Jebusite. And David spoke to Jehovah when he saw the angel who struck the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly. But these sheep, what have they done? I pray You, let Your hand be against me and against my father’s house. And Gad came that day to David, and said to him, Go up! Rear an altar to Jehovah in the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite. And David went up, according to the saying of Gad, as Jehovah commanded. And Araunah looked and saw the king and his servants coming on toward him. And Araunah went out and bowed before the king, his face to the ground. And Araunah said, Why has my lord the king come to his servant? And David said, To buy the threshing-floor from you, to build an altar to Jehovah, so that the plague may be stayed from the people. And Araunah said to David, Let my lord the king take and offer up what seems good to him. Behold, oxen for burnt sacrifice, and threshing instruments, and instruments of the oxen for wood. All these Araunah, like a king, gave to the king. And Araunah said to the king, May Jehovah your God accept you. And the king said to Araunah, No, but I will surely buy from you at a price. And I will not offer burnt offerings to Jehovah my God of that which costs me nothing. And David bought the threshing-floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. And David built there an altar to Jehovah, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. And Jehovah was entreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel” (2 Samuel 24:15-25 MKJV).
“Not a single story, ever, of someone who sinned and gave a sacrifice in order to be forgiven” you say? Now that is a lie of lies, Jeff. Not only do you hate the New Testament and call it lies, but you do the same with the Hebrew Scriptures, which you selfishly and deceitfully pit against the New Testament by your lies. God means nothing at all to you.
Paul Cohen writes:
I will go further to say that the examples given by the questioner (or inquisitioner, because of presumed guilt attributed to the innocent) of David and Jonah, also demonstrate truths about sin, death, and sacrifice.
Regarding David, while he was forgiven without making a sacrifice, it also cost him the life of his son. God said:
“Only, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of Jehovah to blaspheme, this child born to you shall surely die” (2 Samuel 12:14).
Again we see the life and death nature of sin at work. Sin brings death. David was forgiven, but there was a cost of a life for his sin.
As for Nineveh, did not Jonah go into the belly of the fish for three days and three nights? Was that not a form of sacrificial death that God performed on behalf of Nineveh?
Jesus gave the example of Jonah as the one and only sign of Himself that was given to those who did not believe Him. He went into the belly of the earth three days and three nights, a sacrifice well-pleasing to God, and thereby brought salvation to all men. The men of Nineveh, who repented at the preaching of Jonah, will judge such as those here who mock and ridicule the work of God done on their behalf. Be sure your sin will find you out. It has already.
“How can Jesus be both the high priest (per Paul in Hebrews), who comes from the tribe of Levi, and the messiah, who comes from the tribe of Judah?”
He is the priest not after the order of the Levitical priesthood, but after the order of Melchizedek. As it is written:
“Your people shall be willing in the day of Your power, in holy adornment from the womb of the morning: You have the dew of Your youth. Jehovah has sworn, and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” (Psalms 110:3-4 MKJV).
“As He says also in another place, ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.’ For Jesus, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications with strong cryings and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared, though being a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And being perfected, He became the Author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him, being called by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek; of whom we have much to say, and hard to be explained since you are dull of hearing” (Hebrews 5:6-11 MKJV).
And: “…where the Forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek” (Hebrews 6:20 MKJV).
And: “And if I may say so, Levi, also, who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham. For he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him. Therefore if perfection were by the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the Law), what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also. For He of Whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. And it is still far more evident, since there arises another priest after the likeness of Melchizedek, who is made, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. For He testifies, ‘You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek'” (Hebrews 7:9-17 MKJV).
“How can Jesus be the Passover lamb for the gentiles, especially the uncircumcised, if outsiders were forbidden to partake of it? (Ex. 12:43,45,48)”
Outsiders can be, and were made, insiders, even in Israel of old. Then they partake. For example, in your own reference, it is written:
“And when a stranger shall stay with you, and desires to keep the Passover to Jehovah, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it. And he shall be as one that is born in the land. And no uncircumcised person shall eat of it” (Exodus 12:48 MKJV).
There is no contradiction. One either meets the requirements or is excluded. However, if there IS a contradiction, you will have to take that up with the Torah itself, as well as with its Author.
Though the Messiah was born a Jew, and never left Israel in His lifetime, He is not for the Jews only, but for the whole world. The Hebrew Scriptures declare that the Light would come to the gentiles:
“And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious” (Isaiah 11:10 KJV).
“Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delights; I have put My Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles” (Isaiah 42:1 KJV).
“I the LORD have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles” (Isaiah 42:6 KJV).
“And He said, It is a light thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be My salvation unto the end of the earth” (Isaiah 49:6 KJV).
“And the Gentiles shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising” (Isaiah 60:3 KJV).
“O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit” (Jeremiah 16:19 KJV).
“For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same My Name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto My Name, and a pure offering: for My Name shall be great among the heathen, says the LORD of hosts” (Malachi 1:11 KJV).
And: “Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, He making us both one, and He has broken down the middle wall of partition between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity (the Law of commandments contained in ordinances) so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, making peace between them; and so that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity in Himself. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off, and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom every building having been fitly framed together, grows into a holy sanctuary in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit” (Ephesians 2:11-22 MKJV).
“Why is the New Testament so concerned about the laws of the paschal lamb when it comes to the 2nd half of Ex. 12.46 (see Jn. 19.36), but not at all concerned with these laws when it comes to Ex. 12: 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,44, the first half of 46, or 48?”
“For these things were done so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, ‘Not a bone of Him shall be broken'” (John 19:36 MKJV).
The concern was not one of some point of the Law. The point was the fulfilled prophecy of the death of Christ, wherein none of His bones was broken. As it is written:
“And he who saw bore record, and his record is true. And he knows that he speaks true, so that you might believe. For these things were done so that the Scripture might be fulfilled, ‘Not a bone of Him shall be broken'” (John 19:35-36 MKJV).
The Romans broke the legs of the criminals on either side of Him, but when they came to Him, there was no need to do so. He was already dead. The fulfilled Scripture:
“He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken” (Psalms 34:20 MKJV).
Jeff, are you not aware of these things? If you were in “Christian” circles, what were you taught and by whom?
“What good is Jesus as a sin sacrifice to the intentional sinner, since (with one exception, Lev. 6.2,3) the sin sacrifices were only for the unintentional sinner? (Lev. 4: 2,13,22,27; 5:15,18)”
How so? You make such foolish and false statements! You are very ignorant of the Hebrew Scriptures, and you ask why the New Testament writers were so ignorant of them?!? We have already covered many passages to brush aside with ease your false assertions.
Even if there were only one exception, which is a lie, why would not Christ, Who died for all, go out to redeem the one out of a hundred, leaving the ninety-nine until He finds the lost one? You can be thankful that He would do that, Jeff, or you would be doomed forever. It is written:
“For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one, much more they who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by one offense sentence came on all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of One the free gift came to all men to justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:17-19 MKJV).
“How can Zech. 12.10 be referring to Jesus’ crucifixion, as John 19.37 says it is, when Zechariah is clearly describing an end-time apocalyptic war that has not yet taken place?”
The references are:
“And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers. And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born” (Zechariah 12:10 MKJV).
“And again another Scripture says, ‘They shall look upon Him whom they pierced'” (John 19:37 MKJV).
The “apocalyptic war” is a spiritual reality. That is something the carnal man cannot understand. He only believes what he sees and understands. Many things in Scripture are described in symbolism, as with Joel’s prophecy, as pointed out earlier. However, let us grant you that there would be a literal, physical fulfilment of this as you describe in your assumption. Where is the contradiction in the use of symbolism and dual meanings? Can you say? No, not at all.
Paul Cohen writes:
Furthermore, we have looked on Him Whom we have pierced, and have mourned over Him, and this is 2,000 years later. So where is there a problem? The only problem for you seems to be that we are here, proclaiming these things.
“How can Zechariah be making a ‘dual’ prophecy, when according to the Christians, this passage refers to God being pierced? Is he going to be pierced again when he returns in glory?”
There is no justification for assuming that one of the two elements of the duality, if there is a duality at all, pertains to His return in glory. However, when He DID return in glory, that is, in the resurrected body, appearing to nearly 500 people, many bore witness to the fact of His wounds. They did indeed look upon Him Whom they had pierced. What then is the problem?
“When was the last supper – the seder night (the first night of passover) or the night before? (Matt. 26.17-19, Mark 14.12-16, Luke 14.7-15, John 13.1-2)”
Jesus had the last supper, in which He and His disciples kept the seder, the night before the official night. Being the Passover Lamb to be sacrificed on the appointed day, He had an appointment to keep. The day before, He taught His disciples the significance of His death and of Passover.
“When did Jesus die – the first day of Passover or the day before? (Matt. 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, John 18.28, 19.14)”
Jesus died the day after He and His disciples had their private, advance seder, the day that the Passover was to begin that evening.
The religious wanted the Lord’s body removed before the Sabbath feast, so that they would keep the feast by the letter of the law, while killing the Son of God, THE Passover Lamb. He indeed suffered the contradiction of sinners. So today, some, as Jeff and company, who are there not to search out truth, but to condemn it, would argue that Jesus Christ offended the Law of God by keeping the seder one day too early. I say He can do as He wills with His own. Is your “eye evil” because He does so, for the sake of His own?
“Why did God, in Jer. 31.16, tell Rachel that her children would return, if He was referring to the dead children in Matthew 2.16? Were they going to come back to life?”
“Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked by the wise men, was greatly enraged. And he sent and killed all the boys in Bethlehem, and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had carefully inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, ‘A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not'” (Matthew 2:16-18 MKJV).
“So says Jehovah: A voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her sons; she refuses to be comforted for her sons, because they are not. So says Jehovah: Hold back your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says Jehovah. And they shall come again from the land of the enemy. And there is hope for your future, says Jehovah, that your sons shall come again to their own border'” (Jeremiah 31:15-17 MKJV).
In a joyful answer to your question, Jeff, in a word, “YES!” What do you think the resurrection is all about? Is He the resurrection only for Himself? Who do you think holds the keys to Death and Hell? As it is written:
“And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying to me, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death” (Revelation 1:17-18 MKJV).
Rachel will have her children returned, and all will be well that ends well. What hope do you have otherwise? As it is written:
“And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile all things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven” (Colossians 1:20 MKJV).
“Why are the nations putting their hands on their mouth in Micah 7.16, much like in Isaiah 52.15? What is it that they’re seeing and being ashamed of?”
Truly, Jeff, when you discover that you have bitten the Hand that feeds you, regardless, yea, even because, of your spitefulness, you will know the meaning of those words for yourself.
“The nations shall see and be ashamed at all their might; they shall lay their hand on their mouth; their ears shall be deaf. They shall lick the dust like a snake; they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth. They shall dread Jehovah our God, and shall fear because of You” (Micah 7:16-17 MKJV).
“Behold, My Servant shall rule well; He shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. Just as many were astonished at You (so much was the disfigurement from man, His appearance and His form from the sons of mankind); so He sprinkles from many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at Him; for they will see that which was not told to them; yea, what they had not heard, nor understood” (Isaiah 52:13-15 MKJV).
“Why did the church put an unnatural chapter break between Isaiah 52.15 and 53.1?”
Unnatural in whose judgment? And what if they did? So what? Would that be sufficient evidence to you that Jesus Christ is not the Messiah? Likely!
“Just as many were astonished at You (so much was the disfigurement from man, His appearance and His form from the sons of mankind); so He sprinkles from many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at Him; for they will see that which was not told to them; yea, what they had not heard, nor understood” (Isaiah 52:14-15 MKJV).
“Who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of Jehovah revealed? For He comes up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; He has no form nor majesty that we should see Him, nor an appearance that we should desire Him” (Isaiah 53:1-2 MKJV).
You revile the Lord and neighbor, sitting in your dunghill, and you have a problem with a chapter break? You sacrifice a pig on your homemade altar, and you find fault with someone offering up a lamb with a speck of dust on its foot?
“Why did the Christian translators remove the two plural references to the servant in Isaiah 53.8 and 9 and replace them with a singular form?”
I am not aware that such was done by anyone.
Did they? These esoteric arguments over words can become oh so tedious. That is not to say that words are not important, and that those who corrupt the Word of God are not criminal in doing so. But accusations, the stock-in-trade of these posted questions, get old and tired when slung about without proof or understanding. As it turns out, this question is not even a legitimate one to ask.
Why? For the same reason that when my computer does not have power, the first place I check is the fuse box or plug-in to see if it has electricity. Start with the obvious and most logical explanation. To apply this principle we will need to post the Scriptures in question with surrounding verses for the general context. Before we do that, understand that the contention coming from the questioner is that the nation of Israel, constituting a plural pronoun, fulfills the role of the “suffering servant,” versus the King of the Jews, an individual, the Lord Jesus Christ, fulfilling it. Here are the Scriptures:
(Isaiah 53:1) Who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of Jehovah revealed?
(Isaiah 53:2) For He comes up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground; He has no form nor majesty that we should see Him, nor an appearance that we should desire Him.
(Isaiah 53:3) He is despised and rejected of men; a Man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as it were a hiding of faces from Him, He being despised, and we esteemed Him not.
(Isaiah 53:4) Surely He has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
(Isaiah 53:5) But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was on Him; and with His stripes we ourselves are healed.
(Isaiah 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, each one to his own way; and Jehovah has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
(Isaiah 53:7) He was oppressed, and He was afflicted; yet He opened not His mouth. He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter; and as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.
(Isaiah 53:8) He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation? For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken.
(Isaiah 53:9) And He put His grave with the wicked, and with a rich one in His death; although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
(Isaiah 53:10) Yet it pleased Jehovah to crush Him; to grieve Him; that He should put forth His soul as a guilt offering. He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the will of Jehovah shall prosper in His hand.
(Isaiah 53:11) He shall see of the travail of His soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of Himself shall My righteous servant justify many; and He shall bear their iniquities.
(Isaiah 53:12) Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
How can this Scripture, written to the nation of Israel, declaring all of whom have gone astray, promise redemption by the hand of those who are lost and in need of it? The Scriptures are clear that this is not the case. Plural or singular? The answer is given in that the One spoken of here, Who heals Israel with His stripes, is the Man (singular) of sorrows.
God, through the prophet Isaiah, also tells us that this is something only He could do. He looked for a man to intercede for Him, but there was none. If all are guilty, how could any, or all, of the sinful nation provide a suitable and righteous sacrifice? Hear what God says to Israel:
“And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was no one to uphold; therefore My own arm has saved for Me; and My fury upheld Me” (Isaiah 63:5).
“And He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. Therefore His own arm brought salvation to Him; and His righteousness sustained Him” (Isaiah 59:16).
There is no question about the identity of the One Who brought salvation to Israel. Some may say that we do not see the nation of Israel believing as of yet. That too, was known and declared:
“And now, says Jehovah Who formed Me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob again to Him, Though Israel is not gathered, yet I shall be glorious in the eyes of Jehovah, and My God shall be My strength” (Isaiah 49:5).
We could go on, but I leave it for now and add that many religious Jews in times past believed in the singular nature of the verses in question, and have spoken of them in this manner as pointing to the Messiah, the Individual. These facts are commonly available, if anyone wishes to investigate. As for the debate on the nuances of the Hebrew language, which can be endless, what it comes down to is that the understanding of Scripture is far more a matter of spirit than of letter and intellect.
Truthfully, I have no problem whether the word used in verse 8 and 9 is singular or plural, and neither should you. Did not God call Israel to be a kingdom of priests, a holy nation (Exodus 19:6)? What is the purpose of a kingdom of priests for the world, if not to minister salvation to it? But has not Israel after the flesh failed in this? Isaiah says:
“We conceived; we have been in pain, we gave birth to wind. We have not brought about any salvation in the earth; nor have the people of the world fallen” (Isaiah 26:18 MKJV).
But by his very next words he goes on to promise, by the Holy Spirit of God:
“Your dead ones shall live, together with My dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust; for your dew is as the dew of lights, and the earth shall cast out the dead” (Isaiah 26:19 MKJV).
There is a promise of hope for Israel, and even now, we who have been raised from the dead with Christ sing for joy. There are, in fact, now many members of Christ who partake of His life and His ministry of reconciliation. Paul spoke of our part, those who are in Christ, which part is yet being fulfilled for the glory that will be revealed to all mankind by the Savior:
“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Messiah in my flesh for His body’s sake, which is the assembly…” (Colossians 1:24).
“For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God” (Romans 8:19).
Finally, verse 9 was specifically fulfilled by Christ, Who was killed with criminals on his left and right hand, intended for the grave of the wicked, but buried in a rich man’s tomb. What more do you need or want to know?
And now, I have a question for you:
If, as you propose, the nation of Israel, or part of Israel, represents the Messiah, why is it that you people remain in “Christian” America, while Israel struggles as a nation surrounded by enemies? How can you people dare hold your heads up so proudly as you spout your foolish denials of the King of the Jews, while having the freedom to do so because you live in a land in which His followers shed their blood so that you might have the freedom to believe as you choose without threat of harm? How can you have any credibility with anybody? The Israelis see you as hypocrites, and the Americans find you to be ingrates. You will end up with no place to go or be, playing it safe while talking tough.
“Why does the servant in Isaiah 53.10 have physical children (‘zera’/seed) if it refers to Jesus?”
Why not? We are physical, and we are His spiritual seed. He was bodily raised from the dead. He has come to redeem, not condemn, all sons of Adam, who are of the earth, earthy. As it is written:
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22 MKJV).
What a wonderful promise, the down payment of which some of us have even now! Therefore can we testify, in truth, to the reality and sureness of it!
Looking back at the verses 9 and 10, the Scripture talks about the death of Messiah (Yahushuah/Jesus):
(Isaiah 53:9) And He put His grave with the wicked, and with a rich one in His death; although He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
(Isaiah 53:10) Yet it pleased Jehovah to crush Him; to grieve Him; that He should put forth His soul as a guilt offering. He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the will of Jehovah shall prosper in His hand.
Subsequent to that it is said: “He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the will of Jehovah shall prosper in His hand.” Therefore, it is after His death that He sees His seed, and prolongs His days, and the will of God prospers in His hand. This would be through His apostles, and followers, who demonstrated the same faith as He had, proved by their works. After the resurrection and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the High Priest and other Jews examined the apostles for these notable works, and here is what is said of what they saw:
“But seeing the boldness of Peter and John, and perceiving that they were unlearned and uneducated men, they marveled. And they recognized them, that they had been with Jesus” (Acts 4:13).
This is what is known as “family resemblance.” And why can God not have children? You read the Scriptures, don’t you?
“I have said, You are gods; and all of you sons of the Most High” (Psalms 82:6).
This is spoken to flesh and blood people. Of course the seed is physical.
“If ‘zera’ really means spiritual children in Is. 53, why do all Christians agree it means physical offspring in every other place in the bible that it is used to refer to people?”
We have determined that the children are flesh and blood people, born again of God. Who are “all Christians,” anyway? We do not agree with this statement, or with the alleged group, or with you. Neither do the Scriptures. Because you are carnal in your thinking, you do not know that the inheritance of kinship to God is by spiritual lineage, not physical, and that lineage comes through God Himself, Jesus Christ.
“Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it is said to them, You are not My people, it shall be said to them, Sons of the Living God” (Hosea 1:10).
Will anyone argue here that these sons of Israel are spiritual, yet sons nevertheless? How could it be otherwise since they were not His people, yet become His people – sons of Israel and sons of God? The spiritual takes precedence over all.
“And I will make your seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall your seed also be numbered” (Genesis 13:16).
This seed must be spiritual. The problem with those who pose these questions is that they are strictly physical. That is all they know of, or can conceive of.
“And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if you are able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall your seed be” (Genesis 15:5).
“A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation” (Psalms 22:30).
Why do you refer to “all Christians” on more than one occasion when in fact you have not heard what “all Christians” have to say about anything? This question has already been addressed in the preceding answers.
“If ‘zera’/seed really means spiritual children, which ONE of the world’s Christians is the true child of Jesus, since according to Paul in Gal. 3.16, ‘seed’ refers to only one person?”
This too is already answered in one sense. I do not complete the answer to one who will not heed if I should answer ever so wisely, but for the sake of others. The Scriptures are teeming with reply to this silly question:
“For even as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function, so we the many are one body in Christ, and each one members of one another” (Romans 12:4-5 MKJV).
“The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we, the many, are one bread and one body; for we are all partakers of that one bread” (1 Corinthians 10:16-17 MKJV).
“For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many” (1 Corinthians 12:12-14 MKJV).
“And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word, that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, so that the world may believe that You have sent Me. And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, even as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them as You have loved Me” (John 17:20-23 MKJV).
“Why are there many clear prophecies which state that Israel is despised and afflicted, but none which say this about the messiah?”
That is like asking, “Why does the sun shine only at night?” Why would you ask a question based on false premises and lies?
“Why is the automatic Christian response to the problems of Isaiah 53 ALWAYS to quote the rabbis they otherwise despise and mock and whose writings they don’t believe in, that Jesus berated and Paul called ‘men who turn away from the truth’ (Titus 1.14)???”
Again, what “Christians” are you talking about? First, we are those who have no problems with Isaiah 53, we do not quote the rabbis, and we don’t despise or mock any rabbis. Jesus did not berate rabbis but lies and those who wilfully told them, be they rabbis or whomever, including His own disciples, as Peter, for example:
“But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men” (Matthew 16:23 MKJV).
As to your quotation of Paul, how do you conclude that Paul was speaking of rabbis? Here are the words:
“This witness is true; for which cause convict them sharply, so that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish myths and commandments of men, turning away from the truth” (Titus 1:13-14 MKJV).
However, let the chips fall where they may. The problem is that you can only see black, being black. The next verse of that passage describes you:
“To the pure all things are pure. But to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience is defiled” (Titus 1:15 MKJV).
“Why did the disciples not understand what Jesus was talking about in Luke 18:31-34 and Mark 9:32, if it was always common knowledge among the Jews that the messiah was to suffer, die, and rise from the dead?”
Did you not just finish asking the opposite? Here it is again:
“Why are there many clear prophecies which state that Israel is despised and afflicted, but none which say this about the messiah?”
Is it true that it was “always common knowledge that the Messiah was to suffer, die and rise from the dead”? I have often heard otherwise from several Jews.
“Why did Jesus make predictions that didn’t come true, if that’s a sure sign of a false prophet? (Math. 16:38, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27, Deut. 18:20-22)”
Have all prophecies come to pass that were given by Moses and all the prophets in the Hebrew Scriptures? No? Are they all therefore false prophets?
Nevertheless, let us examine the passages to which you refer:
“Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom” (Matthew 16:28 MKJV).
In Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 is recorded the same prophecy.
Those words did indeed come to pass. I won’t bother explaining how until I am asked, and even then, with consideration, considering the source and purpose, and above all, God willing.
“Why does God the Father know something Jesus doesn’t know (Mark 13.32) if Jesus IS the Everlasting Father, and the Mighty God, according to Isaiah 9.6?”
This is why:
“For let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross” (Philippians 2:5-8 MKJV).
“Why do Christians translate the word ‘moshiach’ correctly as ‘an anointed one’ every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Daniel 9?”
First, it is true and a known fact by skilled translators that perfect translation to capture the full meaning of another language is often impossible. Second, the context determines the translation. In this context, if some translators see fit to use another English word, which is more suitable, and they have done so in many cases, so what? What is your answer? Do you have a legitimate one? Obviously, you do not.
“Why do Christians translate the word ‘ca’ari’ correctly as ‘like a lion’ every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 22.17?”
It seems you have given me an erroneous reference. Nevertheless, why don’t you find the right reference and tell me the answer, seeing you seem to be accusatory and faultfinding? You must have some evil notion in your mind as to why.
“Why do Christians translate the words ‘y’mei olom’ correctly as ‘days of old’ every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Micah 5.2?”
Is it “every time,” Jeff? I am not sure of that, and I can hardly be expected to take your word for it, of all people. You have quite proven yourself untrustworthy and corrupt. Nevertheless, as to the verse, I have many translations, and if I look at the Hebrew words, I find no contradiction in the translations. Here are some of them:
“The LORD says, ‘Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose family line goes back to ancient times'” (Micah 5:2 GNB).
“And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, you being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me, to become Ruler in Israel, He whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity” (Micah 5:2 MKJV).
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:2 KJV).
“But you, Beit-Lechem Efratah, being small among the clans of Yehudah, out of you one will come forth to me that is to be ruler in Yisra’el; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting” (Micah 5:2 HNV).
“Bethlehem Ephrath, you are one of the smallest towns in the nation of Judah. But the LORD will choose one of your people to rule the nation– someone whose family goes back to ancient times” (Micah 5:2 CEV).
“Why do Christians translate the word ‘bar’ correctly to ‘cleanliness’ or ‘purity’ every time it appears in the Torah, except for in Psalm 2.12? Why is it that 5 verses earlier King David knew the correct word for ‘son,’ but not in verse 12?”
You tell us, Jeff. King David, a man after God’s heart knew much. The Messiah became known as his son, “the son of David.”
“Why don’t Christians translate ‘ha’almah’ as ‘virgin’ in Proverbs 30.19, if that’s what it means? (What the four ‘ways’ in vs. 19 have in common is that they leave no trace, as evidenced by vs. 20 that follows.)”
“The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent on a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maiden. ‘So is the way of an adulterous woman: she eats and wipes her mouth, and says, ‘I have done nothing wrong'” (Proverbs 30:19-20 HNV).
First, what is wrong with the word “maiden”? My dictionary tells me it is another word for “virgin.” Your insidious question is now dead in the water, but I have more to say:
Second, does an adulterous woman indeed not “leave a trace”? The Scriptures you constantly pretend to defend, yet contradict and attack at every turn declare:
“But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out” (Numbers 32:23).
“Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same” (Job 4:8).
“And if you say in your heart, Why do these things come on me? It is because of the greatness of your iniquity; your skirts are bared, and your heels suffer violence” (Jeremiah 13:22).
Jeff, your sins have found you out. You are now being exposed for what you really are. Your past actions and reactions have formed you. You have indeed, as does every adulterous woman, “left a trace” in your soul and visage. It is manifest to God, to the sons of light, and will be manifest to all in due time.
Third, who is the ungodly man that shall interpret Scripture and tell anyone what it means? What does the carnal man have to do with the things of the Spirit of God? What does a liar have to do with the truth?
“Why did the Septuagint authors use ‘parthenos’ in Genesis to describe Dina who had just been raped, if it means virgin according to messianic authorities?”
You can figure that one out, can’t you, Jeff? Will your “theology” stand or fall on this one? And who are these “messianic authorities”? And who cares? What do they know?
“If Isaiah 7.14 refers to the virgin birth of Jesus, via ‘dual prophecy’ (since it obviously can’t refer to him via the context), then whose was the other virgin birth that occurred at the time of the prophecy?”
The passage is:
“‘Ask a sign of the LORD your God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.’ But Achaz said, ‘I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.’ He said, ‘Listen now, house of David: Is it not enough for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu’el'” (Isaiah 7:11-14).
Who said anything about a dual prophecy, and who says the words don’t apply to the Messiah in the context? Are we to take the unlearned opinions, speculations, and mistranslations of those who warn us not to do the same? Here is an example of a prophecy (in this case, Isaiah’s) that did not come to pass in the prophet’s lifetime, contrary to wilful and ignorant gainsayers. There is no reason to believe that this portion of his prophecy came to pass in any other way than that it was the Messiah centuries later. Those who claim otherwise may be the ones to be questioned, rather than the Scriptures and counsel of God in both Old and New Testaments. If there is another fulfilment, how would it help you to know, Jeff? Would you believe? Obviously not.
Please don’t give me the time worn excuse for not accepting the word “virgin” there, and tell me what was meant was “a maiden.” My dictionary tells me a maiden is a virgin. If you are suggesting that a woman who has already “known a man” is referred to here (which is really quite stupid), of what significance or sign is there in that? God offers Ahaz a sign, something He alone can do, and was annoyed with Ahaz that he wouldn’t come up with something worthy of Him. So it is not simply another woman giving birth, a common everyday event. My, how people twist things to make them support diabolical denials of God’s words, works, and authority!
A virgin giving birth – now that is a sign from God. He said He would do it, and He did. Is anything too hard for Him? He also gave many other prophecies regarding His coming, which also were fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Tradition has it that Isaiah’s persecutors had him sawed in half, likely condemned with trumped up charges. Why? Because some of his prophecies did not come to pass in his lifetime? Why then would they not have killed or discredited Moses, according to all his prophecies in Genesis 49 which did not come to pass in his day?
“ * * Why are there numerous prophecies about gentiles bowing and apologizing to the Jews in the last days, and admitting they (the gentiles) have been wrong, and not a single prophecy the other way around – of the Jews apologizing to the gentiles – if it is indeed the Jews who are wrong? (see my messianic prophecies list) * * ”
This is a question coming out of the mouth, originally or not, of a man who, as recorded in the beginning of this document, says, “I was in a false belief system called Christianity, based on a belief that Jesus was messiah & Lord, that he died for my sins, and rose on the 3rd day. It was an authentic belief, and I was truly saved.”
Let me assure you, my confused friend, that if you had truly experienced repentance and salvation, if you had truly experienced a circumcision of the heart, you would have known that true Jews are those circumcised not in the flesh, but in the heart. One day, you, as a circumcised-in-the-flesh Jew will come bowing and apologizing to all TRUE Christians, who are the true Jews through Jesus Christ (Yahoshuah HaMashiach) for all your evil against them in thought, word and deed. I guarantee you of this. On the other hand, those who have walked as born again, circumcised-in-the-heart Jews will also be sorry for their past deeds, even as Job abhorred himself by the time God was through revealing Job to himself. They will be sorry to God, to neighbor and to self. That goes for you as well. If anybody is “wrong,” it is the unbeliever in Christ (gentile) and not the believer in Christ (Jew). You only know the realm of the flesh, and interpret Scripture accordingly, in darkness and error. You have never known the truth, Jeff. You have never known the Messiah.
“ * * Why are we commanded NOWHERE in the Jewish scriptures to believe in the messiah when he comes, if our salvation depends on it? * * ”
Why do you cite something that is false? The whole Bible, including the Hebrew Scriptures, speaks of believing on the Messiah. What do you think that the sacrifices are all about? What did Moses say? Here it is:
“Jehovah your God will raise up to you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, One like me. To Him you shall listen…” (Deuteronomy 18:15 MKJV).
“The scepter will not depart from Yehudah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until He comes to Whom it belongs. To Him will the obedience of the peoples be” (Genesis 49:10 HNV).
Here is what David said, in a psalm you yourself brought up:
“Why do the nations rage, and the peoples meditate on a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers plot together, against Jehovah and against His anointed, saying, Let us break their bands in two and cast away their cords from us. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; Jehovah shall mock at them. Then He shall speak to them in His anger, and trouble them in His wrath. Yea, I have set My king on My holy hill, on Zion. I will declare the decree of Jehovah. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. And now be wise, O kings; be instructed, O judges of the earth. Serve Jehovah with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled in but a little time. Blessed are all who put their trust in Him” (Psalms 2:1-12 MKJV).
David, by the Spirit of God, also wrote:
“The LORD says to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet.’ The LORD will send forth the rod of your strength out of Tziyon. Rule in the midst of your enemies. Your people offer themselves willingly in the day of your power, in holy array. Out of the womb of the morning, you have the dew of your youth. The LORD has sworn, and will not change his mind: ‘You are a Kohen forever in the order of Malki-Tzedek.’ The Lord is at your right hand. He will crush kings in the day of his wrath. He will judge among the nations. He will heap up dead bodies. He will crush the ruler of the whole earth. He will drink of the brook in the way; therefore he will lift up his head” (Psalms 110:1-7 HNV).
You, Jeff, would be well advised to heed this counsel, don’t you think?
It will not be as you think in your fleshly and darkened mind. Note the words, “Your people offer themselves willingly in the day of Your power, in holy array.” You will gladly obey, and consider yourself an altogether unworthy and unprofitable servant when you have performed your duty. It won’t be a matter of “doing as you are told or else.” It will not be a matter of compulsion but of compassion. You will know that He did indeed redeem you with His blood, and blasphemy and murder will no longer pass your lips. Your shame will be more than you can bear, but for His grace.
“ * * Why do all the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled deal only with the PERSON of the messiah, which the Torah barely mentions, and have nothing to with the ACCOMPLISHMENTS of the messiah, which the Torah is very specific about? * * ”
You are seriously mistaken. The whole of Torah is all about Him, both the Person and His works. I would have to quote the whole Bible here. This document is now long enough.
“ * * * Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that are of no practical advantage to anyone, and do nothing to improve the quality of anyone’s life, while all of the prophecies that he did NOT yet fulfill are all things that will be of tremendous benefit to every individual on the planet, and all of mankind as a whole? (For example, how does a virgin birth that happened 2000 years ago, or Jesus’ being thirsty and being offered vinegar, or being born in Bethlehem, or being killed with a robber, or riding on a donkey, etc… help me out at all? How do any of these ‘fulfillments’ solve a single problem in my life, or anyone’s? Yet, on the other hand, when there is world peace, and all the evil people are gone, and all the sick are healed, etc… now THERE are some messianic prophecies I can use!!! ) * * * ”
What is practical, Jeff? Your doubting, arguing, railing, cynicism, sarcasm, and foolish attention over trivial details? Are you in any position to judge what is practical and what is not? It is written:
“The Lord said, ‘Because this people draws near with their mouth and with their lips to honor Me, but they have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear of Me is a mitzvah of men which has been taught; therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; and the wisdom of their wise men will perish, and the understanding of their prudent men will be hidden.’ Woe to those who deeply hide their counsel from the LORD, and whose works are in the dark, and who say, ‘Who sees us?’ and ‘Who knows us?'” (Isaiah 29:13-15 HNV)
“For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are dying, but to us who are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, I will bring the discernment of the discerning to nothing.’ Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the Torah scholar of this world? Hasn’t God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe. For Jews ask for signs, Greeks seek after wisdom, but we preach Messiah crucified; a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Messiah is the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For you see your calling, brothers, that not many are wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, and not many noble; but God chose the foolish things of the world that He might put to shame those who are wise. God chose the weak things of the world, that He might put to shame the things that are strong; and God chose the lowly things of the world, and the things that are despised, and the things that are not, that He might bring to nothing the things that are: that no flesh should boast before God. But of Him, you are in Messiah Yeshua, who was made to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, ‘He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord'” (1 Corinthians 1:18-31 HNV).
Some words for you there that are rather appropriate, Jeff?
The fulfilled prophecies are a demonstration of the omnipotence, omniscience and sovereignty of God. They are His tokens to mankind that none other is able to produce. It is a demonstration that He is running the show, that He rules over all things, in every detail.
“ * * * Why is it that all of the prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are all things that CANNOT BE PROVEN, while all of the prophecies that Jesus did NOT yet fulfill, on the other hand, are all things that COULD NOT BE DENIED IF HE HAD fulfilled them – even just ONE of them??? * * * ”
Again, here are some appropriate words for you, Jeff:
“Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we want to see a sign from you. (As a carnal Jew, you demand proof, as this question letter abundantly demonstrates.) But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. And there shall be no sign given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the huge fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matthew 12:38-40 MKJV).
The resurrection! Speaking of fulfilled prophecy to demonstrate the authenticity of a true prophet of God, and so much more than a prophet! This Man was able to ACCOMPLISH nothing less than to raise Himself, “HIS PERSON,” from the dead! Would YOU like to have a crack at accomplishing something like that, Jeff, or can you only dwell on your “person”?
Can you think of anything more “practical” than to be able to raise the dead to life again? You say, “Yet, on the other hand, when there is world peace, and all the evil people are gone, and all the sick are healed, etc… now THERE are some messianic prophecies I can use!!!”
I already have the reality of these things. The Hindus think to attain to “self-realization” and the Buddhists to “nirvana” and others to “cosmic consciousness.” Little do they realize that all their hopes are in vain, in and of themselves and their gods. Jesus Christ has accomplished all this in me in the true and real sense. Nevertheless, one day there will be world peace, and all will be healed. That is coming. As for “all the evil people gone,” that will include you. Do you think you are not evil, with all that you have blasphemed and cursed? You will be among those gone, Jeff. However, it will not be as you think. You will be changed to another person. The “old you” will be gone, that miserable, wretched, diseased and troubled person you are, replaced by a new, godly, joyful person who truly believes and loves the Lord, one who rejoices at truth, one who loves all, and enjoys life to the full, laying down his life for His sake, with conviction, purpose and zeal, producing godly fruits for all to enjoy. One day, Jeff, one day. It is determined.
Can the resurrection be proven? You can literally bet your life on it! First, even from a legal standpoint, the resurrection of Christ can be proven. However, more importantly, I was raised from the dead by that resurrection, and came to know that He raised Himself from the dead. He made and does make Himself known to me, in life, because He lives, though He was dead, and I live, though I was dead. I can truthfully declare with Paul, who experienced the same, these words:
“I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And that life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself on my behalf” (Galatians 2:20 MKJV).
Until you have been raised from the dead, it will not matter if you are presented with perfect proof of His resurrection. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, they sought to kill Him for it. You would think that they should or would have feared! They did fear, but for their power and control over the people.
Jesus was supposed to have said (we believe the parable is spurious, though this truth stated in the following statement is valid): that Abraham said to the rich man tormented in Hell, “If they do not believe Moses, neither will they believe though one came back from the dead.” How true those words are! A dead man knows nothing, Solomon said. A blind man can see nothing, though it is there in all reality. You are dead and blind, Jeff. Proof will not do. It must happen to you before you will believe. Until then, you must suffer the fruits of death and darkness, you and all your partners in these questions. I know what I am talking about.
“ * * * * Why is it that the ONLY way to fit Jesus into the torah’s messianic prophecies is through the use of extreme force? Why is one or more of the following methods ALWAYS required? 1) taking verses out of context, 2) mistranslating, 3) placing a 2,000 year gap (at least) in the middle of a verse – totally unjustified by the context – i.e. sweeping any failure of Jesus to fulfill the scriptures under the rug of the 2nd coming, or 4) making verses up? Why can’t the torah ever just ONCE mention Jesus clearly, if it’s so important that we believe in him? * * * * ”
First, you are wrong about “extreme force,” about “taking words out of context,” about “mistranslating,” about unfulfilled prophecies that should have been fulfilled, and about “making verses up.” You are dead wrong on all counts (and I do not use the word, “dead” loosely). I have proven so much of your foolish and darkened assertions to be patently false, not that I expect you to believe anything I have said. What I have written will be for others who will believe, and to succor them in the trials of their youthful faith and weaknesses, which come by evil surmisings and false accusations such as yours.
Contrary to your notions, God did not come to prove anything to the carnal man. The proof is all there for the spiritual man, “as plain as the nose on one’s face,” but as Isaiah, the apostle Paul and Jesus Christ said, to the carnal man are all these things securely hidden. He does not deserve them. He will not attain to these secrets by his own understanding. To him it is all foolishness. If he were able to attain on his own, he would not need a Messiah to deliver him. We enter by faith, and not by works, even as Abraham offered up his beloved son, Isaac, as a burnt offering, having faith that “God would provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering.”
Legalistic and unbelieving minds such as yours will retort, as you constantly do in this document by your questions, “Aha! But there was no lamb! There was a RAM, with horns caught in the thicket, but NO LAMB!” So call Abraham a false prophet, or declare the Torah to be a bunch of crap, as you do with God Himself.
Do you need a Messiah, Jeff? To us, it is fully evident that you do, in that you reject the Truth and the Messiah, Who is the Truth. Why are you so bitter? You cannot blame your attitude or circumstances on anyone or anything other than yourself. The blame is never due to anything external.
“ARE ALL OF THE ABOVE FACTS JUST TREMENDOUS, AMAZING, UNBELIEVABLE COINCIDENCES???????”
I THINK WE HAVE WELL ESTABLISHED THAT YOUR “FACTS” ARE VAIN IMAGINATIONS, FALSE INTERPRETATIONS, CARNAL REASONINGS, AND FABLES RATHER THAN FACTS.
“If God changed his mind about so many crucial things He said in the Torah, as demonstrated above, and now wants us to believe in Jesus, why didn’t he have the decency to come down to ALL of us, and endorse Jesus in person to make it clear to us, as he came down to all 3 million of us on Mt. Sinai to endorse Moses, to make sure we would believe in the Torah forever? (Ex. 19:9.11,17, Ex. 24.17)”
There was nothing “demonstrated above,” as amply proven, He is perfect “decency,” can do as He pleases with His creation, and has provided some words for such as you:
“And those who passed by blasphemed Him, shaking their heads, and saying, You destroying the temple and building it in three days, save yourself. If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross. And in the same way also the chief priests mocked, with the scribes and elders, saying, He saved others, but he cannot save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him now, if He will have Him. (For He said, I am the Son of God.)” (Matthew 27:39-43 MKJV)
Isaiah said of you:
“And He said, Go, and tell this people, You hear indeed, but do not understand; and seeing you see, but do not know. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn back, and be healed. Then I said, Lord, how long? And He answered, Until the cities are wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land laid waste, a desolation, and until Jehovah has moved men far away, and the desolation in the midst of the land is great” (Isaiah 6:9-12 MKJV).
According to the Word of the Lord by Isaiah, and contrary to your notions, God is not in the business of proving anything to carnal, unbelieving man. With Moses, though he did mighty works of God, the entire first generation perished because of their unbelief, except for two men that believed. As for Jesus, there is no greater endorsement than resurrection from the dead.
I have abundantly furnished you with many other Scriptures to address your arguments. Had you been in the day of Moses, and you were, you would have stood with Korah, Dathan and Abiram, and you did. You did not believe Moses then, and you do not believe him now. That is why you are dead, restlessly thrashing in your grave with bitterness and guilt.
“Why does God break one of His own commandments, ‘You shall not place a stumbling block before the blind’ (Lev. 19.14), since according to 2 Cor. 3.14 and 4.4 I am blind, and according to Rom. 9.32, 1 Peter 2.8, and 1 Cor 1.23, the above challenges are all part of ‘a stumbling stone?’”
First, He would not break any of His own commandments any more than He would commit suicide. Furthermore, He has every right to do as He pleases with His own. We don’t have that right. If He chooses to place a stumbling block before the blind, it is His right and business to do so. He knows the end of any matter, and can redeem anyone at any time. We can’t do that. Therefore it is up to Him to judge. With Him there can be no injustice or contradiction. As it is written:
“So then, He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. You will say then to me, ‘Why does He still find fault? For who withstands His will?’ But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask Him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?” (Romans 9:18-21 HNV)
This argument with attendant Scripture is assuming you are reasonable and justified in your question, which you are not. But if you were…
Perhaps your contention is that “Christian” teaching and the New Testament are contradicting and misrepresenting Him. That is more likely the case. If so, you will need to take up other of God’s “contradictions” with Him, of which there appear to be not a few, not that they are contradictions to us. They are not. For example, He commands us not to kill, writes it in stone, gives it to Moses, and shortly after Moses comes down from the mount, he orders Israelites to be slain, neighbors and brethren, by God’s sanction, wherein about three thousand died. These are not attackers or heathen of which we speak, but His own people. So you ask questions to insinuate or plainly accuse the New Testament or Christians of contradiction. Look a little more closely at the Torah, which, by the way, is the foundation of true Christianity, not what you think or have known, but true Christianity.
Speaking of “stumbling blocks,” try this:
“Again, when a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand” (Ezekiel 3:20).
Is that “Christian” Scripture or Hebrew Scripture, Jeff and company? In ignorance, bitterness and unbelief (the cause of your fathers falling in the wilderness), you criticize, fault and condemn.
“Why does God trick us, and present us with such tremendous difficulties as the above questions, and then throw us into hell for rejecting an apparent false god, who’s really not false, if ‘God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth?’ (1 Tim. 2.4)”
It is clear that your questions have been unlearned, contradictory, cynical, and based on false premises, false knowledge, and false interpretations. While it is partially justifiable that you could ask this question based on some of Christianity’s pagan doctrines, you are responsible for the truth. You are foolish to discount the truth, based on lies.
It is not a secret that Christianity has several false doctrines, as do all other religions. For example, you here suggest an eternal hell of torment for some or many, and that He will not save everyone. This is based on a diabolical doctrine originating in paganism, adopted by the Catholic Church, and carried over into almost all other “Christian” churches. Let me tell you this: if He does not save everyone, then every one of us is in perfect trouble. You are doomed. The truth is that by His blood, He has reconciled all things unto Himself, and it will all be made manifest in the fulness of times. Read The Good News, The Purpose of Evil, The Reconciliation of All Things, and Who Then Can Be Saved?! You may also check out: Diabolical Doctrines, of which there are many in Christendom. Most of Christendom is quite pagan. We are not pagan, and those who think that they are Christian, and that we are heretics, hate us for it. We preach against much of what Christendom teaches, and gladly so.
However, it is our conviction that your problem is not so much with falsehood as it is with the truth! Is that not so, Jeff, and all those who compose these questions, thinking you are so clever?
“WHY IS THE CHRISTIAN GOD SUCH A SADIST??? AND WHY DO CHRISTIANS EXPECT JEWS TO WANT TO EMBRACE HIM???”
We agree with you that many devilish and erroneous teachings in Christendom would necessarily lead to the conclusion that the “Christian God” may well be a sadist. However, if there is any possibility with you whatsoever to recognize and to acknowledge truth, you will find that the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ/Yahshuah HaMashiach, as He is, is not only not sadistic, but Truth and Love beyond our carnal reasoning and understanding. If you knew Him, you would condemn not Him, but yourselves. Ironically, not knowing Him, but speaking against Him, you do condemn yourselves. Repent.
We rest our case.
We correspond with a professional peace advocate who thinks he is the answer to solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Gershon Baskin calls himself “The Negotiator” and claims to be responsible for the secret back channel between Israel and Hamas that traded kidnapped Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit for over a thousand Muslim criminals and murderers held in Israeli jails. With peace like Baskin’s, who needs war?
At the end of 2006, we raised the flag of Israel, a representation of the spiritual stance the Lord gave us towards that nation. Now, two years later at the same time of year, when gathered together again at Harvest Haven, we prayed for Israel in its current war in Gaza. Victor, in the Name of the Lord, cursed Hamas and all those who stand with it against Israel.
Readers response: You must be kidding.