From: Simon Hall
Sent: June-19-18 4:27 AM
To: 'Victor Hafichuk'; Marilyn Hafichuk; Martin Van Popta
Subject: The end, one way or another.
Victor and Martin
By being at TPOT I have placed you both on the throne as GOD over my life, and Simon no longer exists. Through you, and making myself believe that God only exists at TPOT and only with Martin and Victor, I have let the devil usurp me. I have become but an empty shell, more fearful and more bound. That is one of the evils I have committed, putting you both on the throne of my life.
Also, along with the dread I have had being around you, and the hatred towards you both, I have hidden the truth about how I have felt for a long time. I have been a liar.
I have been a weak man. It is my fault, even though I want to blame you both for my predicament.
I need to unwind the damage of eating from the tree of knowledge and listening to the devil.
Simon
From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2018 5:59 AM
To: Simon Hall; 'Marilyn Hafichuk'; Martin Van Popta
Cc: Ronnie Tanner; Jeannie Van Popta; James Sorochan; Brandon LaBerteaux
Subject: RE: The end, one way or another.
“Behold, your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord’” (Matthew 23:38-39 MKJV).
The problem is not that you’ve put us on the throne, Simon, but that you refuse in your proud, rebellious, and perverse heart to acknowledge that we ARE SEATED on the Throne of God in His power and glory. You refuse to submit to God Who comes in us. You shout out the cry of devils, “You’re not going to tell ME what to do!” That’s been your undoing.
So, in such a state of defiance before God and His kings and priests, just how do you presume to “unwind the damage of eating from the tree of knowledge and listening to the devil”?
\/
From: Simon Hall
Sent: June-20-18 1:59 AM
To: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Marilyn Hafichuk'; 'Martin Van Popta'
Cc: 'Ronnie Tanner'; 'Jeannie Van Popta'; 'James Sorochan' ; 'Brandon LaBerteaux'
Subject: RE: The end, one way or another.
Victor and Martin, I woke up in the middle of the night before, you, Victor, sent your response. And when I awoke, I knew I had to send another short email at some stage today, my time.
What I knew to send was, “I am sorry for judging you and for not being honest with you”, which I left out of my first email.
I am not saying this now to somehow receive some sort of leniency for what I did.
You have said what you’ve said.
God’s will be done.
Simon
Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
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Ronnie Tanner
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Michael Vavases
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Hi Simon,
I have a few things to say that may help you see things a bit more clearly. Obviously, some of what I am about to say will be conjecture; I write because it may help.
You write, “I am not saying this now to somehow receive some sort of leniency for what I did.”
Am I wrong to surmise that you’ve concluded, all of a sudden, that you’ve committed some crime for which you were not previously guilty, or have not been guilty of your whole life? As Victor explains, your heart has been proud, rebellious, and perverse. But this isn’t something new; you were born the man of sin.
Sabine made a good point on the FB chat, saying that it’s not really Victor and Martin that you hate, it’s God. It’s a difficult thing to confess; easier to say we hate men than to say we hate God, even if those men are vessels in whom He dwells. So let’s call a spade a spade here: you hate God.
I had a very difficult time coming to terms with the fact that I’ve hated God, always seeking to justify myself somehow before Him. That’s what self-righteousness compels us to do: to justify ourselves, to try to convince ourselves that we’re not really guilty of crucifying the Lord, or that we have some redeeming qualities that pardon us somehow. I would also say that it’s one thing to say “I’m guilty,” or “I know I have no redeeming qualities”— one thing to know that intellectually and a completely different thing to understand and believe it. Are you there? Maybe you are, and I’m wasting my words, but you certainly don’t seem to be.
In fact, it seems that even in that sentence I quoted above that you’re justifying yourself. Simply mentioning that you’re not saying something for a nefarious purpose likely means there is a totally nefarious purpose.
I should mention something else. The Lord recently delivered me of bitterness toward Him, which is really just a form of hatred. It is hatred. What was I bitter of? Mostly that He’d shown favor to others and not to me. I thought that I deserved to be saved because of how much I’d suffered, how much He’d made me suffer. So I suffered in bitterness and constant disappointment because He just wasn’t healing me, and I felt that I deserved that healing, particularly more so than others here.
I confess I had resentment towards Brandon, Martin, Lauren, well pretty much everyone. But it had nothing to do with you all individually; my bitterness and hatred was really directed at the Lord, Who works all things for good. And I knew it, and I felt so condemned for it!
So I should say that if you have bitterness, it might not be Victor or Martin you need to apologize to, but God, because all of your suffering has been for your good and for the good of others. I’ve personally benefited from your suffering, because I learned through your trials and the advice you were given about religiosity, about devils, and probably much more. It’s critical to remember that His intentions are always, always good, even if we don’t see it. Think of Job.
I think you should get back up and dust yourself off, Simon. I certainly don’t believe the Lord is done with you: “But God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
Please, someone correct anything I’ve said here that is wrong or inappropriate.
I have a few things to say that may help you see things a bit more clearly. Obviously, some of what I am about to say will be conjecture; I write because it may help.
You write, “I am not saying this now to somehow receive some sort of leniency for what I did.”
Am I wrong to surmise that you’ve concluded, all of a sudden, that you’ve committed some crime for which you were not previously guilty, or have not been guilty of your whole life? As Victor explains, your heart has been proud, rebellious, and perverse. But this isn’t something new; you were born the man of sin.
Sabine made a good point on the FB chat, saying that it’s not really Victor and Martin that you hate, it’s God. It’s a difficult thing to confess; easier to say we hate men than to say we hate God, even if those men are vessels in whom He dwells. So let’s call a spade a spade here: you hate God.
I had a very difficult time coming to terms with the fact that I’ve hated God, always seeking to justify myself somehow before Him. That’s what self-righteousness compels us to do: to justify ourselves, to try to convince ourselves that we’re not really guilty of crucifying the Lord, or that we have some redeeming qualities that pardon us somehow. I would also say that it’s one thing to say “I’m guilty,” or “I know I have no redeeming qualities”— one thing to know that intellectually and a completely different thing to understand and believe it. Are you there? Maybe you are, and I’m wasting my words, but you certainly don’t seem to be.
In fact, it seems that even in that sentence I quoted above that you’re justifying yourself. Simply mentioning that you’re not saying something for a nefarious purpose likely means there is a totally nefarious purpose.
I should mention something else. The Lord recently delivered me of bitterness toward Him, which is really just a form of hatred. It is hatred. What was I bitter of? Mostly that He’d shown favor to others and not to me. I thought that I deserved to be saved because of how much I’d suffered, how much He’d made me suffer. So I suffered in bitterness and constant disappointment because He just wasn’t healing me, and I felt that I deserved that healing, particularly more so than others here.
I confess I had resentment towards Brandon, Martin, Lauren, well pretty much everyone. But it had nothing to do with you all individually; my bitterness and hatred was really directed at the Lord, Who works all things for good. And I knew it, and I felt so condemned for it!
So I should say that if you have bitterness, it might not be Victor or Martin you need to apologize to, but God, because all of your suffering has been for your good and for the good of others. I’ve personally benefited from your suffering, because I learned through your trials and the advice you were given about religiosity, about devils, and probably much more. It’s critical to remember that His intentions are always, always good, even if we don’t see it. Think of Job.
I think you should get back up and dust yourself off, Simon. I certainly don’t believe the Lord is done with you: “But God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
Please, someone correct anything I’ve said here that is wrong or inappropriate.
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Alan Agnew
- Posts: 116
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Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Is Simon blaming TPOT for why the devil usurped him?Through you, and making myself believe that God only exists at TPOT and only with Martin and Victor, I have let the devil usurp me.
Michael V, Simon most likely cannot access the forum we are in. Perhaps a public version of this topic in the Current Events Forum, or some other place, is good for getting the word to Simon? Not sure what to do.
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Brian McDonald
- Posts: 70
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- Location: Ireland
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
I have listened to many people here expressing great faith in the Lord and TPOT and then one by one they fall, like apples falling from a tree, into the dust from whence they came. Sin is like gravity, it pulls one down. Lord have mercy on me.
Michael, I think your pretty much, spot on.
Simon if you can read this. None, not much anyhow, of what you said makes sense.
“By being at TPOT I have placed you both on the throne as GOD over my life, and Simon no longer exists.”
Simon, is that not the whole point, Simon dies and Christ takes up residents?
“Through you, and making myself believe that God only exists at TPOT and only with Martin and Victor, I have let the devil usurp me.”
True, the Devil has; and you let him. I had a little vision of Simon 2000 years ago in the past saying to the 12 Apostles....” through you; and making my myself believe that God only exists in you and your words, I have let the Devil usurp me”
Simon, Victor and Martin are men chosen by the Lord to speak for Him just like the 12. Just like Paul. Just like all the others around that time who were born again of the Spirit. Victor and Martin are living examples for our benefit in this present day.
It seems to me that someone, apart from yourself and the Devil, has been whispering in your ear Simon and I have a feeling that that someone was more human than spirit. Who have been talking to Simon?
“I have become but an empty shell, more fearful and more bound.”
Again Simon, is this not the whole point, you become an empty shell and the Lord fills that space? But your not empty. According to you, you are more full. Full of fear and bound-up, to boot. Dear Simon. You are not the only one here that is full of fear. We are all full of fear and anyone who says they are not is a lair. I thought getting over the eternal hell fire crap, (excuse my language) would set me free from the fear of meeting God. I am more fearful now than ever. Fearing eternal hell fire, I had an excuse, there being such a hateful god. But now I know that He, the Lord, is a God of Love, A God who came to earth and gave His life, scourged and then crucified on a cross in such a cruel manner, for my sake. How can I face that? The only way is to die with Him and be resurrected with Him. I am not saying that I, Brian McDonald, have died in Christ, far from it. (Much to my shame) But Simon.....knowing and excepting that I must die, is a good starting point. We all must die to enter into life with Him. You say you have become an empty shell? If only it were true Simon, God would have filled you. I and others here would have had another head to pound on and maybe poor Victor and Martin would get a break. Lol. sadly, this is no laughing matter.
“That is one of the evils I have committed, putting you both on the throne of my life.”
The throne of “your life”.
I have been crucified with Christ and “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.” The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20.NIV (“my enfaces”)
Has not your life been bought and paid for by His Blood? Its no longer yours, its His. Besides, what life is there without His Blood, you might as well be a pig.
“Also, along with the dread I have had being around you, and the hatred towards you both, I have hidden the truth about how I have felt for a long time. I have been a liar.”
No Simon, its not hatred of Victor and Martin, just like Michael said. You have been exposed. You hate God. All men hate God until they are freed from the man of sin. (“Simon” “Brian”) The dread you feel is the same dread I feel. That is, we are still on the throne and Christ hardly gets a look in. That’s my fear of meeting God, that I am still lord of my heart and not He. Its the same dread you have of being around Victor and Martin because His Spirit in them, exposes the lack of His Spirit in you. There is nowhere to hide Simon, that’s what you hate. I know!
“I need to unwind the damage of eating from the tree of knowledge and listening to the devil.”
Pray tell, how do you propose to do that, are you just going to un-learn it? Knowledge is not evil Simon. Why would you even want to un-learn, unwind it? Knowledge is good. (My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge) (The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge) The tree of Knowledge of good and evil is good. Everything God created is Good. Its how we use it (knowledge) that causes the problems. What you are saying is that, because you have knowledge of God, you have somehow done damage to your self. Would it have been better to never have known God. Perhaps it would have been better for Simon to never have been born, is that what it has come to??? The knowledge you have learned from TPOT is of God but the Devil has come around and told you different. “Simon, did God really say this or that?” Stop listening to him Simon, he is a liar and the father of lies, may God rebuke him.
Simon, it would be good to see you washed clean of this whole mucky mess and have you back here. How this is supposed to happen now, after all that has come to pass. Maybe repentance? Nevertheless, let it be as God wills and not I.
Brian.
Michael, I think your pretty much, spot on.
Simon if you can read this. None, not much anyhow, of what you said makes sense.
“By being at TPOT I have placed you both on the throne as GOD over my life, and Simon no longer exists.”
Simon, is that not the whole point, Simon dies and Christ takes up residents?
“Through you, and making myself believe that God only exists at TPOT and only with Martin and Victor, I have let the devil usurp me.”
True, the Devil has; and you let him. I had a little vision of Simon 2000 years ago in the past saying to the 12 Apostles....” through you; and making my myself believe that God only exists in you and your words, I have let the Devil usurp me”
Simon, Victor and Martin are men chosen by the Lord to speak for Him just like the 12. Just like Paul. Just like all the others around that time who were born again of the Spirit. Victor and Martin are living examples for our benefit in this present day.
It seems to me that someone, apart from yourself and the Devil, has been whispering in your ear Simon and I have a feeling that that someone was more human than spirit. Who have been talking to Simon?
“I have become but an empty shell, more fearful and more bound.”
Again Simon, is this not the whole point, you become an empty shell and the Lord fills that space? But your not empty. According to you, you are more full. Full of fear and bound-up, to boot. Dear Simon. You are not the only one here that is full of fear. We are all full of fear and anyone who says they are not is a lair. I thought getting over the eternal hell fire crap, (excuse my language) would set me free from the fear of meeting God. I am more fearful now than ever. Fearing eternal hell fire, I had an excuse, there being such a hateful god. But now I know that He, the Lord, is a God of Love, A God who came to earth and gave His life, scourged and then crucified on a cross in such a cruel manner, for my sake. How can I face that? The only way is to die with Him and be resurrected with Him. I am not saying that I, Brian McDonald, have died in Christ, far from it. (Much to my shame) But Simon.....knowing and excepting that I must die, is a good starting point. We all must die to enter into life with Him. You say you have become an empty shell? If only it were true Simon, God would have filled you. I and others here would have had another head to pound on and maybe poor Victor and Martin would get a break. Lol. sadly, this is no laughing matter.
“That is one of the evils I have committed, putting you both on the throne of my life.”
The throne of “your life”.
I have been crucified with Christ and “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.” The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20.NIV (“my enfaces”)
Has not your life been bought and paid for by His Blood? Its no longer yours, its His. Besides, what life is there without His Blood, you might as well be a pig.
“Also, along with the dread I have had being around you, and the hatred towards you both, I have hidden the truth about how I have felt for a long time. I have been a liar.”
No Simon, its not hatred of Victor and Martin, just like Michael said. You have been exposed. You hate God. All men hate God until they are freed from the man of sin. (“Simon” “Brian”) The dread you feel is the same dread I feel. That is, we are still on the throne and Christ hardly gets a look in. That’s my fear of meeting God, that I am still lord of my heart and not He. Its the same dread you have of being around Victor and Martin because His Spirit in them, exposes the lack of His Spirit in you. There is nowhere to hide Simon, that’s what you hate. I know!
“I need to unwind the damage of eating from the tree of knowledge and listening to the devil.”
Pray tell, how do you propose to do that, are you just going to un-learn it? Knowledge is not evil Simon. Why would you even want to un-learn, unwind it? Knowledge is good. (My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge) (The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge) The tree of Knowledge of good and evil is good. Everything God created is Good. Its how we use it (knowledge) that causes the problems. What you are saying is that, because you have knowledge of God, you have somehow done damage to your self. Would it have been better to never have known God. Perhaps it would have been better for Simon to never have been born, is that what it has come to??? The knowledge you have learned from TPOT is of God but the Devil has come around and told you different. “Simon, did God really say this or that?” Stop listening to him Simon, he is a liar and the father of lies, may God rebuke him.
Simon, it would be good to see you washed clean of this whole mucky mess and have you back here. How this is supposed to happen now, after all that has come to pass. Maybe repentance? Nevertheless, let it be as God wills and not I.
Brian.
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Ronnie Tanner
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Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
I've moved this topic into Current Events. Simon had asked specifically to be removed from the forum, which we've done, but he'll have access to it now.Alan Agnew wrote: Perhaps a public version of this topic in the Current Events Forum, or some other place, is good for getting the word to Simon? Not sure what to do.
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Lori Reneri
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Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Amen Brian,
You clearly pointed out many good things here. All of which were helpful in dealing with the truth. I’m thankful to be here to hear and learn from it.
I often take for granted just what a gift it is from the Lord to be here at TPOT hearing God speak to us through Victor and Martin, thank you Lord.
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”.
You clearly pointed out many good things here. All of which were helpful in dealing with the truth. I’m thankful to be here to hear and learn from it.
I often take for granted just what a gift it is from the Lord to be here at TPOT hearing God speak to us through Victor and Martin, thank you Lord.
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”.
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Nicholas Carpenter
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Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Thank you Brian,
I have been grappling with the idea that I hate God but as you said, all men hate God until they are delivered from the man of sin. We are all at enmity with him unless he has mercy on us. I didn't want to admit that I hated God but at the end of the day it is what it is; and I can't just run from it. In https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teaching ... erness.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Victor talks about forgiving God as Job did. How can I forgive the Lord when he has done no wrong when its really me in the wrong because I'm perceiving things incorrectly from my carnal perspective rather than the Lord's.
I have thought about the notion that perhaps I worship Victor and Martin as well; but just because I do what they tell me and remember what they told me to do and obey it doesn't mean I worship them if what I'm hearing from them is from God. God could speak through a donkey and I better listen. God grant me grace to obey those coming His name because I can't do it by my own strength; noone can.
Another thing you said Brian is that we all have fear. Amen. I am among the most fearful of us all. I'm scared to even mention TPOT much less confess that Victor is that prophet to people. The Lord be praised and blessed though; and give me courage to shout the truth from the rooftops. The more who hear the better, because who can believe what they have never heard.
I hope the Lord is merciful with Simon and gives him understanding, wisdom, and deliverance from his fear and bindings; no matter what it will happen at the proper time. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for his mercies. Amen.
I have been grappling with the idea that I hate God but as you said, all men hate God until they are delivered from the man of sin. We are all at enmity with him unless he has mercy on us. I didn't want to admit that I hated God but at the end of the day it is what it is; and I can't just run from it. In https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teaching ... erness.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Victor talks about forgiving God as Job did. How can I forgive the Lord when he has done no wrong when its really me in the wrong because I'm perceiving things incorrectly from my carnal perspective rather than the Lord's.
I have thought about the notion that perhaps I worship Victor and Martin as well; but just because I do what they tell me and remember what they told me to do and obey it doesn't mean I worship them if what I'm hearing from them is from God. God could speak through a donkey and I better listen. God grant me grace to obey those coming His name because I can't do it by my own strength; noone can.
Another thing you said Brian is that we all have fear. Amen. I am among the most fearful of us all. I'm scared to even mention TPOT much less confess that Victor is that prophet to people. The Lord be praised and blessed though; and give me courage to shout the truth from the rooftops. The more who hear the better, because who can believe what they have never heard.
I hope the Lord is merciful with Simon and gives him understanding, wisdom, and deliverance from his fear and bindings; no matter what it will happen at the proper time. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ for his mercies. Amen.
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Terri Cabreros
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Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Hi Brian,
I wanted to comment on a couple of things you said. This will be a little long but please bear with me.
You said: You are not the only one here that is full of fear. We are all full of fear and anyone who says they are not is a liar [sic].
As Victor has said numerous times, fear = unbelief and he has seen "nothing uglier in my life than unbelief. It is the enemy of all that is true, good, holy and pure."
I know Victor has also talked about having an unhealthy fear of God and a healthy fear of God.
As Martin put it (in the Ezekiel 23 Bible reading addressing Darrell's fear): "Do you fear the Lord because you love Him or do you have an unhealthy fear of the Lord because you think if you don't fear Him something's going to happen to you or He'll destroy you?"
I first began writing to Victor in 2009 and being confronted with my horrible destructive sins of thievery, lying, pornography, masturbation, anger, bitterness, an abortion...by the Lord's grace and His mercy, I began to confess, repent and make restitution where I could.
At the same time, I had to confront the sins of my three daughters, all of whom were still living at home at the time. Sins of lying, stealing, fornication, rebellion and also deal with my husband who was overwhelmed by my confessions and the divisions that were occurring with my daughters, he wanted compromise.
I remember times sitting on my bathroom floor screaming and sobbing into my towel and through gritted teeth, thanking the Lord.
He had mercy on me and brought me through as He showed me what needed to be done and by His grace, doing it. I started with an unhealthy fear of the Lord but over the years, looking to Him it has become a healthy (reverence) fear.
Victor told me from back then, "you know what you need to do," but there are times where I didn't want to do it, trying to hold on and I was rebuked, scourged, corrected either by the Lord or by Victor (and Paul at the time).
Most recently, my youngest daughter admitted to being a lesbian. I called Victor for counsel on what to do as she was set to move back here again. He admonished me saying, "Why are we having this conversation? You know what you need to do."
Later that day, I sent an e-mail to Victor:
Prior to her picking up her things, she texted me that she was tormented that I didn't accept and love her for who she was. I texted her back saying that she was tormented because of her sins and that I couldn't accept and condone or love her and the life she had chosen that God says it is an abomination (sent some Scripture verses). I believe Him and I stand with Him.
Am I looking back? No.
It did sadden me about the choice she has made but I have left it.
What surprised me somewhat is that I was really thankful and I just kept thanking and praising the Lord for this division/separation.
Then the devil came by way of my husband in a quiet tone:
Peter asked me yesterday, "so, you're not going to talk to your daughter?"
I said no, I already said everything I needed, she rejected what I had to say so she's no longer my daughter. He was surprised and said, "she's still your daughter." I said, no, she made her choice and I made mine. He didn't say anything after that.
I have not seen or talked to her since.
You said: "I have listened to many people here expressing great faith in the Lord and TPOT and then one by one they fall, like apples falling from a tree, into the dust from whence they came."
Yes, many people have come and gone. The Sabbath meetings began on January 16, 2010 in which the only ones tat remain today from that very first meeting, by God's grace, are Victor & Marilyn, James and myself.
Something that stays with me:
Martin: Struggling means you refuse to let go of your sin.
Victor: Struggling doesn't mean "I want to let go of my sin"; it means, "I want to hang on to it."
Simon came to his first Sabbath meeting on 6-6-15 while visiting HH for the first time. In the 6-20-15 Sabbath meeting, he was delivered of devils and he was seeing clearer but then I began to notice that at subsequent meetings (Sabbath/Bible) he talked a lot about always being in a state of confusion and torment.
He never trusted the Lord and wore his unbelief, confusion, "not wanting to hide anything," "wanting to be honest" as badges, confessing yet never repenting (as Ronnie says below).
Excerpts from the last Bible reading on 11-11-16:
Simon: I’m all for what you guys have decided (ending the meetings), I’m in full agreement with it. Last night when I went to bed, I felt like it was my time to walk away. If I belong to the Lord It’ll be known, if I’m not then it’ll also be known and that’s the way it is. I’m deserving of whatever comes, that’s the way it is and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Victor: Why would you just want to walk away from the Lord instead of repenting? The people were called on to repent, they weren’t called on to walk away from the Lord and try Him out to see if anything’s genuine or not. I don’t understand that kind of thinking. I don’t see it anywhere in the Scriptures. Where do you find that kind of counsel anywhere in the Bible?
Simon: I always live in confusion, that’s the way it is. So, the thoughts that come to my mind is if I’ve got to go to destruction, then I’ve got to go to destruction. There’s no reason for me holding on out of some religious duty because that’s exactly what you guys are talking about and I can see I’m believing myself, I can see it there but I can’t turn it off and I’m not looking for an excuse cause I don’t have any but it is what it is. If I need to be destroyed, I need to be destroyed. As scary as that is, somebody who’s in unbelief like I am, then what can I do?
Victor: Well, then, maybe I’ll just use the same words that Joshua used…you know, you guys decide for yourselves whether you’re going to serve God or not, “as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
Simon: It’s all necessary. I agree with what verdict you guys have come to, I think it’s the right way to go.
Ronnie: Simon was just going around in circles…he’s entangled himself back into things he’s been delivered from and he’s just not with it.
Simon: It’s like I said, Ronnie, the whole thing ended up revealing my unbelief. The whole thing for me was I don’t want to hide anything and I did even say to you guys that I was willing to have that conversation in front of everybody if you guys thought that was the proper thing to do, then I was willing to do that on one of these Bible readings.
Paul: It wasn’t really the issue about being open. It was about believing the Lord and obeying Him and not having to be open in the first place.
Martin: Yeah, obedience instead of sacrifice.
Ronnie: Yeah, you’ll do everything but repent.
Simon: Yeah.
Dennison: And put the onus on the Lord instead of knowing that you are the man.
In closing, what I go to is this (Last Bible reading 11-11-16):
Victor: People hear what we’re saying but they don’t hear. They have ears to hear but they don’t hear. And several guys are having these struggles whether it’s masturbation or whatever. “Oh yeah, I fell again.” “Well, I did this and I fell again.” “I did this and I fell again.” “And I did this and I fell again.” I’m thinking, “What is this?!”
I asked the Lord to take over my life back in ’73, I couldn’t handle my sin, I couldn’t do it. I kept falling and finally, the time came where I just got really serious, I got down on my knees with George Lynn and prayed and said, “Lord, take over my life, I can’t do it! You’ve got to do it, I know it’s all wrong but I can’t do it!” He took all that away from me. I had to set myself to it. It wasn’t just a magic wand waving over me, I had to set myself to it.
I’m not taking credit but He gave me something, He gave me some kind of faith, some kind of strength to now address those things that were plaguing me. I had to make the effort. In other words, I had to repent not just confess, in fact, I wasn’t even confessing things. George Lynn didn’t ask me to confess anything but I knew I had those things and I’d been begging the Lord to take those things away. I knew they were wrong and I knew they needed to go and He took them away!
But I had to set myself to it! I couldn’t just wait for Him to just, “oh wow! It’s gone! Boy, I feel great!” I couldn’t wait for that and it didn’t happen that way.
We have a choice…we’re either going to look to the Lord, believe and obey Him or we’re going to hold onto our idols, in most cases if not all, loved ones. It’s a daily battle and if we’re looking to the Lord, one that is winnable. If not looking to Him, we lose.
I wanted to comment on a couple of things you said. This will be a little long but please bear with me.
You said: You are not the only one here that is full of fear. We are all full of fear and anyone who says they are not is a liar [sic].
As Victor has said numerous times, fear = unbelief and he has seen "nothing uglier in my life than unbelief. It is the enemy of all that is true, good, holy and pure."
I know Victor has also talked about having an unhealthy fear of God and a healthy fear of God.
As Martin put it (in the Ezekiel 23 Bible reading addressing Darrell's fear): "Do you fear the Lord because you love Him or do you have an unhealthy fear of the Lord because you think if you don't fear Him something's going to happen to you or He'll destroy you?"
I first began writing to Victor in 2009 and being confronted with my horrible destructive sins of thievery, lying, pornography, masturbation, anger, bitterness, an abortion...by the Lord's grace and His mercy, I began to confess, repent and make restitution where I could.
At the same time, I had to confront the sins of my three daughters, all of whom were still living at home at the time. Sins of lying, stealing, fornication, rebellion and also deal with my husband who was overwhelmed by my confessions and the divisions that were occurring with my daughters, he wanted compromise.
I remember times sitting on my bathroom floor screaming and sobbing into my towel and through gritted teeth, thanking the Lord.
He had mercy on me and brought me through as He showed me what needed to be done and by His grace, doing it. I started with an unhealthy fear of the Lord but over the years, looking to Him it has become a healthy (reverence) fear.
Victor told me from back then, "you know what you need to do," but there are times where I didn't want to do it, trying to hold on and I was rebuked, scourged, corrected either by the Lord or by Victor (and Paul at the time).
Most recently, my youngest daughter admitted to being a lesbian. I called Victor for counsel on what to do as she was set to move back here again. He admonished me saying, "Why are we having this conversation? You know what you need to do."
Later that day, I sent an e-mail to Victor:
Prior to her picking up her things, she texted me that she was tormented that I didn't accept and love her for who she was. I texted her back saying that she was tormented because of her sins and that I couldn't accept and condone or love her and the life she had chosen that God says it is an abomination (sent some Scripture verses). I believe Him and I stand with Him.
Am I looking back? No.
It did sadden me about the choice she has made but I have left it.
What surprised me somewhat is that I was really thankful and I just kept thanking and praising the Lord for this division/separation.
Then the devil came by way of my husband in a quiet tone:
Peter asked me yesterday, "so, you're not going to talk to your daughter?"
I said no, I already said everything I needed, she rejected what I had to say so she's no longer my daughter. He was surprised and said, "she's still your daughter." I said, no, she made her choice and I made mine. He didn't say anything after that.
I have not seen or talked to her since.
You said: "I have listened to many people here expressing great faith in the Lord and TPOT and then one by one they fall, like apples falling from a tree, into the dust from whence they came."
Yes, many people have come and gone. The Sabbath meetings began on January 16, 2010 in which the only ones tat remain today from that very first meeting, by God's grace, are Victor & Marilyn, James and myself.
Something that stays with me:
Martin: Struggling means you refuse to let go of your sin.
Victor: Struggling doesn't mean "I want to let go of my sin"; it means, "I want to hang on to it."
Simon came to his first Sabbath meeting on 6-6-15 while visiting HH for the first time. In the 6-20-15 Sabbath meeting, he was delivered of devils and he was seeing clearer but then I began to notice that at subsequent meetings (Sabbath/Bible) he talked a lot about always being in a state of confusion and torment.
He never trusted the Lord and wore his unbelief, confusion, "not wanting to hide anything," "wanting to be honest" as badges, confessing yet never repenting (as Ronnie says below).
Excerpts from the last Bible reading on 11-11-16:
Simon: I’m all for what you guys have decided (ending the meetings), I’m in full agreement with it. Last night when I went to bed, I felt like it was my time to walk away. If I belong to the Lord It’ll be known, if I’m not then it’ll also be known and that’s the way it is. I’m deserving of whatever comes, that’s the way it is and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Victor: Why would you just want to walk away from the Lord instead of repenting? The people were called on to repent, they weren’t called on to walk away from the Lord and try Him out to see if anything’s genuine or not. I don’t understand that kind of thinking. I don’t see it anywhere in the Scriptures. Where do you find that kind of counsel anywhere in the Bible?
Simon: I always live in confusion, that’s the way it is. So, the thoughts that come to my mind is if I’ve got to go to destruction, then I’ve got to go to destruction. There’s no reason for me holding on out of some religious duty because that’s exactly what you guys are talking about and I can see I’m believing myself, I can see it there but I can’t turn it off and I’m not looking for an excuse cause I don’t have any but it is what it is. If I need to be destroyed, I need to be destroyed. As scary as that is, somebody who’s in unbelief like I am, then what can I do?
Victor: Well, then, maybe I’ll just use the same words that Joshua used…you know, you guys decide for yourselves whether you’re going to serve God or not, “as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
Simon: It’s all necessary. I agree with what verdict you guys have come to, I think it’s the right way to go.
Ronnie: Simon was just going around in circles…he’s entangled himself back into things he’s been delivered from and he’s just not with it.
Simon: It’s like I said, Ronnie, the whole thing ended up revealing my unbelief. The whole thing for me was I don’t want to hide anything and I did even say to you guys that I was willing to have that conversation in front of everybody if you guys thought that was the proper thing to do, then I was willing to do that on one of these Bible readings.
Paul: It wasn’t really the issue about being open. It was about believing the Lord and obeying Him and not having to be open in the first place.
Martin: Yeah, obedience instead of sacrifice.
Ronnie: Yeah, you’ll do everything but repent.
Simon: Yeah.
Dennison: And put the onus on the Lord instead of knowing that you are the man.
In closing, what I go to is this (Last Bible reading 11-11-16):
Victor: People hear what we’re saying but they don’t hear. They have ears to hear but they don’t hear. And several guys are having these struggles whether it’s masturbation or whatever. “Oh yeah, I fell again.” “Well, I did this and I fell again.” “I did this and I fell again.” “And I did this and I fell again.” I’m thinking, “What is this?!”
I asked the Lord to take over my life back in ’73, I couldn’t handle my sin, I couldn’t do it. I kept falling and finally, the time came where I just got really serious, I got down on my knees with George Lynn and prayed and said, “Lord, take over my life, I can’t do it! You’ve got to do it, I know it’s all wrong but I can’t do it!” He took all that away from me. I had to set myself to it. It wasn’t just a magic wand waving over me, I had to set myself to it.
I’m not taking credit but He gave me something, He gave me some kind of faith, some kind of strength to now address those things that were plaguing me. I had to make the effort. In other words, I had to repent not just confess, in fact, I wasn’t even confessing things. George Lynn didn’t ask me to confess anything but I knew I had those things and I’d been begging the Lord to take those things away. I knew they were wrong and I knew they needed to go and He took them away!
But I had to set myself to it! I couldn’t just wait for Him to just, “oh wow! It’s gone! Boy, I feel great!” I couldn’t wait for that and it didn’t happen that way.
We have a choice…we’re either going to look to the Lord, believe and obey Him or we’re going to hold onto our idols, in most cases if not all, loved ones. It’s a daily battle and if we’re looking to the Lord, one that is winnable. If not looking to Him, we lose.
-
Michael Vavases
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Terri,
I feel compelled to respond to you here, because I see some real problems with your post.
I’m afraid I don’t see anything helpful in what you’ve written. This thread is about Simon Hall, yet you seem to be hijacking it for your own purposes. You begin by mentioning fear, but not how it relates to Simon’s situation. Why is that? I’m not saying Simon isn’t fearful; that’s certainly part of his problem, but you only mention Darrell’s fear and your own.
Then, you go off on a tangent and start talking about being delivered from sins/vices and idolatry of your children. Again, what has this to do with Simon Hall? I’m not saying this wasn’t good, or evidence of the Lord working in your life, but hadn’t Simon been delivered of these sorts of things as well? That’s a genuine question; I don’t know the answer there for sure, but I thought he had been. Wasn’t he separated from his wife, at least? I know he got rid of his dog.
You write, “Yes, many people have come and gone. The Sabbath meetings began on January 16, 2010 in which the only ones tat remain today from that very first meeting, by God's grace, are Victor & Marilyn, James and myself.”
What does that have to do with anything? Paul Cohen was around a lot longer than you were, and he’s gone. So what if you’ve been around since 2010? Are you boasting here or something? If nothing else, I once again don’t really see that how long you’ve been around has anything to do with Simon leaving.
You say Simon “never trusted the Lord,” but is that really true? I remember hearing him speak of having to believe that the devil had actually been cast out, and that once he came to believe it he was at peace about it (or something to that effect). I believe I saw other evidence of him trusting the Lord, as well. We all fall down at some point, isn’t that so? But the Lord brings us through.
I just don’t like how what you’re saying sounds, as though you’re writing him off. Maybe he’s done, could very well be, but let’s not jump to conclusions, for his sake!
My concern here is that it seems you’re here not to help Simon, but to point out your virtues while pointing out his shortcomings. I can only say that this is what it looks like to me; perhaps I’m wrong, and I am merely being combative. I don’t know—Lord correct me if so!
You quote Victor being delivered of sins back in ’73…again, why? Was Simon never delivered of these sins as you were, as I was?
What I do know is that being delivered of these things was only a step in the right direction for me personally. I am under the impression that Simon needs to be purged of himself, not of any external idols or vices/sins. Am I wrong here?
Do you still need to be purged of yourself? Not trying to put you down, Terri, I’m just trying to make sense of things here.
I feel compelled to respond to you here, because I see some real problems with your post.
I’m afraid I don’t see anything helpful in what you’ve written. This thread is about Simon Hall, yet you seem to be hijacking it for your own purposes. You begin by mentioning fear, but not how it relates to Simon’s situation. Why is that? I’m not saying Simon isn’t fearful; that’s certainly part of his problem, but you only mention Darrell’s fear and your own.
Then, you go off on a tangent and start talking about being delivered from sins/vices and idolatry of your children. Again, what has this to do with Simon Hall? I’m not saying this wasn’t good, or evidence of the Lord working in your life, but hadn’t Simon been delivered of these sorts of things as well? That’s a genuine question; I don’t know the answer there for sure, but I thought he had been. Wasn’t he separated from his wife, at least? I know he got rid of his dog.
You write, “Yes, many people have come and gone. The Sabbath meetings began on January 16, 2010 in which the only ones tat remain today from that very first meeting, by God's grace, are Victor & Marilyn, James and myself.”
What does that have to do with anything? Paul Cohen was around a lot longer than you were, and he’s gone. So what if you’ve been around since 2010? Are you boasting here or something? If nothing else, I once again don’t really see that how long you’ve been around has anything to do with Simon leaving.
You say Simon “never trusted the Lord,” but is that really true? I remember hearing him speak of having to believe that the devil had actually been cast out, and that once he came to believe it he was at peace about it (or something to that effect). I believe I saw other evidence of him trusting the Lord, as well. We all fall down at some point, isn’t that so? But the Lord brings us through.
I just don’t like how what you’re saying sounds, as though you’re writing him off. Maybe he’s done, could very well be, but let’s not jump to conclusions, for his sake!
My concern here is that it seems you’re here not to help Simon, but to point out your virtues while pointing out his shortcomings. I can only say that this is what it looks like to me; perhaps I’m wrong, and I am merely being combative. I don’t know—Lord correct me if so!
You quote Victor being delivered of sins back in ’73…again, why? Was Simon never delivered of these sins as you were, as I was?
What I do know is that being delivered of these things was only a step in the right direction for me personally. I am under the impression that Simon needs to be purged of himself, not of any external idols or vices/sins. Am I wrong here?
Do you still need to be purged of yourself? Not trying to put you down, Terri, I’m just trying to make sense of things here.
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Nicholas Carpenter
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
I see that I have the wrong kind of fear, that of man and not of God; and in regards to fearing God it needs to be a fear out of love, not terror.
Thank you Terri. I pray God grants me the same fear.
Thank you Terri. I pray God grants me the same fear.
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Oneil Richards
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:20 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Hi Michael,
You're indeed attacking Terri and unjustly so, Terri has given plenty of evidence to support her argument. I don't find any evidence to suggest Terri was boasting of her own virtue while putting Simon down either. she points to the reality/ root of Simon's problem which was/is indeed unbelief. I'm very thankful for this response from Terri.
You write:
"What does that have to do with anything? Paul Cohen was around a lot longer
than you were, and he’s gone. So what if you’ve been around since 2010? Are
you boasting here or something? If nothing else, I once again don’t really
see that how long you’ve been around has anything to do with Simon leaving"
Going back in this instance is not boasting Michael it's using available evidence to support what was said, here it appears as if you have an issue with Terri separate and apart from this thread.
You write:
"You say Simon “never trusted the Lord,” but is that really true? I remember
hearing him speak of having to believe that the devil had actually been
cast out, and that once he came to believe it he was at peace about it (or
something to that effect). I believe I saw other evidence of him trusting
the Lord, as well. We all fall down at some point, isn’t that so? But the
Lord brings us through."
Yes Michael, it is really true, the evidence say so, here's what Simon said.
Simon: "I always live in confusion, that’s the way it is. So, the thoughts
that come to my mind is if I’ve got to go to destruction, then I’ve got to
go to destruction. There’s no reason for me holding on out of some
religious duty because that’s exactly what you guys are talking about and I
can see I’m believing myself, I can see it there but I can’t turn it off
and I’m not looking for an excuse cause I don’t have any but it is what it
is. If I need to be destroyed, I need to be destroyed. As scary as that is,
somebody who’s in unbelief like I am, then what can I do?"
So Terri is entirely right with her assessment of the situation. In this conversation Simon was in total unbelief and somewhat wearing it as a badge of honour (honesty).
You write:
"You quote Victor being delivered of sins back in ’73…again, why? Was Simon
never delivered of these sins as you were, as I was?"
Why? because it was necessary when Victor said what the Lord did to/for him then and it's necessary for all of us now.
Here's what Victor said again:
"I asked the Lord to take over my life back in ’73, I couldn’t handle my
sin, I couldn’t do it. I kept falling and finally, the time came where I
just got really serious, I got down on my knees with George Lynn and prayed
and said, “Lord, take over my life, I can’t do it! You’ve got to do it, I
know it’s all wrong but I can’t do it!” He took all that away from me. I
had to set myself to it. It wasn’t just a magic wand waving over me, I had
to set myself to it.
I’m not taking credit but He gave me something, He gave me some kind of
faith, some kind of strength to now address those things that were plaguing
me. I had to make the effort. In other words, I had to repent not just
confess, in fact, I wasn’t even confessing things. George Lynn didn’t ask
me to confess anything but I knew I had those things and I’d been begging
the Lord to take those things away. I knew they were wrong and I knew they
needed to go and He took them away!
But I had to set myself to it! I couldn’t just wait for Him to just, “oh
wow! It’s gone! Boy, I feel great!” I couldn’t wait for that and it didn’t
happen that way.
We have a choice…we’re either going to look to the Lord, believe and obey
Him or we’re going to hold onto our idols, in most cases if not all, loved
ones. It’s a daily battle and if we’re looking to the Lord, one that is"
Victor was/is correct and we all need to hear this, and obey. Only the Lord can deliver us from ourselves. Victor is a living breathing example giving to us from the Lord. Michael, your argument here is all based in feelings and not in the reality of the situation, Terri is indeed trying to help Simon here by pointing to the root of the problem which is unbelief. It makes no sense trying to help one who is in unbelief, in fact it's ant-Christ. Simon indeed was delivered from devils. Here's what the Lord has to say about such:
Luke 11:24-27 New International Version (NIV)
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”
As was pointed out to Simon by other's here:
"Ronnie: Simon was just going around in circles…he’s entangled himself back
into things he’s been delivered from and he’s just not with it.
Simon: It’s like I said, Ronnie, the whole thing ended up revealing my
unbelief. The whole thing for me was I don’t want to hide anything and I
did even say to you guys that I was willing to have that conversation in
front of everybody if you guys thought that was the proper thing to do,
then I was willing to do that on one of these Bible readings.
Paul: It wasn’t really the issue about being open. It was about believing
the Lord and obeying Him and not having to be open in the first place.
Martin: Yeah, obedience instead of sacrifice.
Ronnie: Yeah, you’ll do everything but repent.
Simon: Yeah."
Oneil
You're indeed attacking Terri and unjustly so, Terri has given plenty of evidence to support her argument. I don't find any evidence to suggest Terri was boasting of her own virtue while putting Simon down either. she points to the reality/ root of Simon's problem which was/is indeed unbelief. I'm very thankful for this response from Terri.
You write:
"What does that have to do with anything? Paul Cohen was around a lot longer
than you were, and he’s gone. So what if you’ve been around since 2010? Are
you boasting here or something? If nothing else, I once again don’t really
see that how long you’ve been around has anything to do with Simon leaving"
Going back in this instance is not boasting Michael it's using available evidence to support what was said, here it appears as if you have an issue with Terri separate and apart from this thread.
You write:
"You say Simon “never trusted the Lord,” but is that really true? I remember
hearing him speak of having to believe that the devil had actually been
cast out, and that once he came to believe it he was at peace about it (or
something to that effect). I believe I saw other evidence of him trusting
the Lord, as well. We all fall down at some point, isn’t that so? But the
Lord brings us through."
Yes Michael, it is really true, the evidence say so, here's what Simon said.
Simon: "I always live in confusion, that’s the way it is. So, the thoughts
that come to my mind is if I’ve got to go to destruction, then I’ve got to
go to destruction. There’s no reason for me holding on out of some
religious duty because that’s exactly what you guys are talking about and I
can see I’m believing myself, I can see it there but I can’t turn it off
and I’m not looking for an excuse cause I don’t have any but it is what it
is. If I need to be destroyed, I need to be destroyed. As scary as that is,
somebody who’s in unbelief like I am, then what can I do?"
So Terri is entirely right with her assessment of the situation. In this conversation Simon was in total unbelief and somewhat wearing it as a badge of honour (honesty).
You write:
"You quote Victor being delivered of sins back in ’73…again, why? Was Simon
never delivered of these sins as you were, as I was?"
Why? because it was necessary when Victor said what the Lord did to/for him then and it's necessary for all of us now.
Here's what Victor said again:
"I asked the Lord to take over my life back in ’73, I couldn’t handle my
sin, I couldn’t do it. I kept falling and finally, the time came where I
just got really serious, I got down on my knees with George Lynn and prayed
and said, “Lord, take over my life, I can’t do it! You’ve got to do it, I
know it’s all wrong but I can’t do it!” He took all that away from me. I
had to set myself to it. It wasn’t just a magic wand waving over me, I had
to set myself to it.
I’m not taking credit but He gave me something, He gave me some kind of
faith, some kind of strength to now address those things that were plaguing
me. I had to make the effort. In other words, I had to repent not just
confess, in fact, I wasn’t even confessing things. George Lynn didn’t ask
me to confess anything but I knew I had those things and I’d been begging
the Lord to take those things away. I knew they were wrong and I knew they
needed to go and He took them away!
But I had to set myself to it! I couldn’t just wait for Him to just, “oh
wow! It’s gone! Boy, I feel great!” I couldn’t wait for that and it didn’t
happen that way.
We have a choice…we’re either going to look to the Lord, believe and obey
Him or we’re going to hold onto our idols, in most cases if not all, loved
ones. It’s a daily battle and if we’re looking to the Lord, one that is"
Victor was/is correct and we all need to hear this, and obey. Only the Lord can deliver us from ourselves. Victor is a living breathing example giving to us from the Lord. Michael, your argument here is all based in feelings and not in the reality of the situation, Terri is indeed trying to help Simon here by pointing to the root of the problem which is unbelief. It makes no sense trying to help one who is in unbelief, in fact it's ant-Christ. Simon indeed was delivered from devils. Here's what the Lord has to say about such:
Luke 11:24-27 New International Version (NIV)
24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”
As was pointed out to Simon by other's here:
"Ronnie: Simon was just going around in circles…he’s entangled himself back
into things he’s been delivered from and he’s just not with it.
Simon: It’s like I said, Ronnie, the whole thing ended up revealing my
unbelief. The whole thing for me was I don’t want to hide anything and I
did even say to you guys that I was willing to have that conversation in
front of everybody if you guys thought that was the proper thing to do,
then I was willing to do that on one of these Bible readings.
Paul: It wasn’t really the issue about being open. It was about believing
the Lord and obeying Him and not having to be open in the first place.
Martin: Yeah, obedience instead of sacrifice.
Ronnie: Yeah, you’ll do everything but repent.
Simon: Yeah."
Oneil
-
Sarah Stuckey
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Hi Michael V.,
I can answer one of your questions. Yes, Simon parted ways with his girlfriend/companion. I'm not sure if they were married. I believe her name was Kiki.
Sarah
I can answer one of your questions. Yes, Simon parted ways with his girlfriend/companion. I'm not sure if they were married. I believe her name was Kiki.
Sarah
-
Terri Cabreros
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:52 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Hi everyone
I wasn't saying I had any virtue...believe me, I know I don't.
I do not write eloquently or have the kind of wisdom and knowledge as some here; I can only write by what I have seen/experienced and have been delivered of so if I have offended the Lord or anyone here, I sincerely apologize. It was not my intent.
The Lord correct me if I am wrong in what I have said referring to Simon. I was only pointing out what I saw with him and I do not condemn him for it.
I wasn't saying I had any virtue...believe me, I know I don't.
I do not write eloquently or have the kind of wisdom and knowledge as some here; I can only write by what I have seen/experienced and have been delivered of so if I have offended the Lord or anyone here, I sincerely apologize. It was not my intent.
The Lord correct me if I am wrong in what I have said referring to Simon. I was only pointing out what I saw with him and I do not condemn him for it.
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Craig Hall
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:29 am
- Location: Queanbeyan, NSW, Australia
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
All,
My brother Simon has fallen into a dark place and has come to the realisation he doesn’t know God and probably never has. It seems to me he is reaping what he has sown over his life, as we all do or will when God calls us and makes us accountable for our actions.
We grew up in a house where it was not right to make a mistake and learnt to be critical of our siblings and more so of other people. We were raised to believe Catholicism was the true church and only way to salvation. How wrong were we.
We, like a lot of people, had parents that were a mismatch and were raised in a dysfunctional atmosphere, something Simon, my other siblings and I have replicated in our own lives. He has separated from his wife Kikkik and lives alone, works from home and has very little face to face contact with people but deals with people over the phone during the course of his employment. A very lonely existence.
I do not share these things to make an excuse just providing a bit of background. Indeed Simon is getting what he needs or what he deserves, praise God. We will all go through our own hell at some stage in our walk to salvation.
Simon has always been a very successful business person and sought his own counsel, is this a form of pride, maybe. He has also suffered terribly with personal confusion and head noise and some mornings found it hard to get out of bed because he was too confused which side of bed to get out of. He feels like a fraud and is empty. I don’t believe he has turned his back on God as he wants to wait and hear from Him, he can no longer do things in his own steam and needs to surrender to God.
Lord willing Simon will turn all this around. I love my brother dearly and it is hard to watch this from afar, unfortunately we live on opposite sides of Australia and only see each other about once a year. I spoke to him Sunday evening our time after I read, with surprise, the emails that I had been receiving regarding this topic, he was a shell of his usual self with no life in his voice.
Thank you God that you are the author of all things and that Your will be done, not ours.
Craig Hall
My brother Simon has fallen into a dark place and has come to the realisation he doesn’t know God and probably never has. It seems to me he is reaping what he has sown over his life, as we all do or will when God calls us and makes us accountable for our actions.
We grew up in a house where it was not right to make a mistake and learnt to be critical of our siblings and more so of other people. We were raised to believe Catholicism was the true church and only way to salvation. How wrong were we.
We, like a lot of people, had parents that were a mismatch and were raised in a dysfunctional atmosphere, something Simon, my other siblings and I have replicated in our own lives. He has separated from his wife Kikkik and lives alone, works from home and has very little face to face contact with people but deals with people over the phone during the course of his employment. A very lonely existence.
I do not share these things to make an excuse just providing a bit of background. Indeed Simon is getting what he needs or what he deserves, praise God. We will all go through our own hell at some stage in our walk to salvation.
Simon has always been a very successful business person and sought his own counsel, is this a form of pride, maybe. He has also suffered terribly with personal confusion and head noise and some mornings found it hard to get out of bed because he was too confused which side of bed to get out of. He feels like a fraud and is empty. I don’t believe he has turned his back on God as he wants to wait and hear from Him, he can no longer do things in his own steam and needs to surrender to God.
Lord willing Simon will turn all this around. I love my brother dearly and it is hard to watch this from afar, unfortunately we live on opposite sides of Australia and only see each other about once a year. I spoke to him Sunday evening our time after I read, with surprise, the emails that I had been receiving regarding this topic, he was a shell of his usual self with no life in his voice.
Thank you God that you are the author of all things and that Your will be done, not ours.
Craig Hall
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Lauren Santiago
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:17 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
How successful, Craig, has Simon been in the business of salvation? Yet he thinks to deliver himself. Do you believe the same? You say “Lord willing, Simon will turn all this around.” The Lord is not willing that any man should save himself. Including Simon, including you. Unless and until Simon recognizes he has no hope outside of Christ, Who comes here and now for his sake, he will continue to make his bed in hell. Rather than sorrow in the distance between you, you would do well to increase it, lest you make yourself his bunkmate.
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Lori Reneri
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Amen O’Neil,
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was very thankful for all that Terri spoke about because I never even knew how long she’s been here or some of the things she’s been through in her life as well.
These are good things to hear and helpful to all of us who are struggling and in unbelief. Why not throw in all things that come to us as we are speaking, if we need to.
Why is there such judgement. I mean no disrespect to you Michael, but I do feel as though you yourself are going through some kind of prideful judging. We have Victor to lead us and correct when needed.
Although we should be able to speak our minds when given, we should exercise careful thought before doing so. I’m learning a lot by all of these things both good and bad. It is all necessary as we walk with the Lord. I am thankful to be repenting of the unbelief I’ve also been in lately, and the Lord is giving me much relief of it.
Lord lead us in all things to do your will Father, not ours.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was very thankful for all that Terri spoke about because I never even knew how long she’s been here or some of the things she’s been through in her life as well.
These are good things to hear and helpful to all of us who are struggling and in unbelief. Why not throw in all things that come to us as we are speaking, if we need to.
Why is there such judgement. I mean no disrespect to you Michael, but I do feel as though you yourself are going through some kind of prideful judging. We have Victor to lead us and correct when needed.
Although we should be able to speak our minds when given, we should exercise careful thought before doing so. I’m learning a lot by all of these things both good and bad. It is all necessary as we walk with the Lord. I am thankful to be repenting of the unbelief I’ve also been in lately, and the Lord is giving me much relief of it.
Lord lead us in all things to do your will Father, not ours.
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Lori Reneri
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Although we don’t know each other I want to thank you,
I just saw this, and after reading I felt the need to reach out and ask if you could please let Simon know that I’m thinking of him. I’m praying that God will give him the will to overcome whatever is happening. (John 8:12, 12:46)
I just saw this, and after reading I felt the need to reach out and ask if you could please let Simon know that I’m thinking of him. I’m praying that God will give him the will to overcome whatever is happening. (John 8:12, 12:46)
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Lauren Santiago
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:17 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
All of Simon’s personal history and present reality is known to God and not beyond His ability to transform. Simon could humble himself and be trained up by the True Father, he could rest in a family of brothers and sisters across the world and throughout history. Yet Simon is lonely. His choice. Would you call it a wise one? Does anyone truly wonder if Simon seeking his own counsel is prideful? What about idiotic?
Craig says that he doesn’t believe Simon has turned his back on God. Lori, do you hold a similar sentiment? For everyone’s sake, a distinction should be made here. Simon has come to the temple of the living God, leaned upon His Pillar, but refused to bend the knee. Now he runs out in search of God in the wastelands. If he can capture the air, perhaps “God” will be in it, or maybe a shadow moving across the desert, let Simon chase after it, perhaps “the Lord” is there. Do you think that Simon, in all his time here, has not heard from God? Why are you here? Why have any of us come except to receive the Words of Life? Simon waits to hear from his own god, having heard from the Lord of Hosts and not liking what He says. The bitter seeds of rebellion that he has sown have borne their fruit. Don't think your pity for Simon to be a mercy but a stumbling block, and one which you and others are tripping over.
Craig says that he doesn’t believe Simon has turned his back on God. Lori, do you hold a similar sentiment? For everyone’s sake, a distinction should be made here. Simon has come to the temple of the living God, leaned upon His Pillar, but refused to bend the knee. Now he runs out in search of God in the wastelands. If he can capture the air, perhaps “God” will be in it, or maybe a shadow moving across the desert, let Simon chase after it, perhaps “the Lord” is there. Do you think that Simon, in all his time here, has not heard from God? Why are you here? Why have any of us come except to receive the Words of Life? Simon waits to hear from his own god, having heard from the Lord of Hosts and not liking what He says. The bitter seeds of rebellion that he has sown have borne their fruit. Don't think your pity for Simon to be a mercy but a stumbling block, and one which you and others are tripping over.
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Michael Vavases
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Terri,
I’m not sure what to say to that. I asked several questions, but I don’t see any real answers here.
I should say I wasn’t offended by anything you said, but I was put off by it, for whatever reason. Then I was hopeful that you were in for some correction, but for your benefit! I see judgment falling on several here within a short amount of time, and this is all a great thing. It may not be very fun, but it is very good. I hope you’re being honest with yourself here; if you are, then great. I don’t claim to know the truth of the matter, and I’m not going to press you. That’s not my place.
Oneil,
You sound awfully sure of yourself. Why? I will tell you this: I don’t feel convicted by your accusation. I also don’t see that you provided any substantive arguments, just a lot of copying and pasting and agreeing with Terri.
Lauren,
You sound out for blood. What makes you think Craig thinks Simon needs to save himself? In fact, Craig says Simon “can no longer do things in his own steam and needs to surrender to God.” I see you jumping on what was probably a misstatement on Craig’s part and making a huge assumption about what Craig needs to do, and as though Simon is a cancer destined for destruction. In fact, you dropped a threat. Not good...believe me, I've been there.
Lori,
Did I actually pronounce judgment on Terri? I don’t see that I did. I brought up some concerns, and asked some questions. Can you show otherwise?
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I certainly could be in need of correction here, and there seems to be no shortage of correction going around. I don’t relish the thought of more coming my way, but if it’s required then so be it.
I suppose, however, that I could say the same things I said to Oneil to you as well. What makes you so sure you’re right here? You said you agree “wholeheartedly.” Is yours a witness from the Lord? Is Oneil’s? How can we know, without someone who has the Spirit to judge those witnesses?
I’m not sure what to say to that. I asked several questions, but I don’t see any real answers here.
I should say I wasn’t offended by anything you said, but I was put off by it, for whatever reason. Then I was hopeful that you were in for some correction, but for your benefit! I see judgment falling on several here within a short amount of time, and this is all a great thing. It may not be very fun, but it is very good. I hope you’re being honest with yourself here; if you are, then great. I don’t claim to know the truth of the matter, and I’m not going to press you. That’s not my place.
Oneil,
You sound awfully sure of yourself. Why? I will tell you this: I don’t feel convicted by your accusation. I also don’t see that you provided any substantive arguments, just a lot of copying and pasting and agreeing with Terri.
Lauren,
You sound out for blood. What makes you think Craig thinks Simon needs to save himself? In fact, Craig says Simon “can no longer do things in his own steam and needs to surrender to God.” I see you jumping on what was probably a misstatement on Craig’s part and making a huge assumption about what Craig needs to do, and as though Simon is a cancer destined for destruction. In fact, you dropped a threat. Not good...believe me, I've been there.
Lori,
Did I actually pronounce judgment on Terri? I don’t see that I did. I brought up some concerns, and asked some questions. Can you show otherwise?
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I certainly could be in need of correction here, and there seems to be no shortage of correction going around. I don’t relish the thought of more coming my way, but if it’s required then so be it.
I suppose, however, that I could say the same things I said to Oneil to you as well. What makes you so sure you’re right here? You said you agree “wholeheartedly.” Is yours a witness from the Lord? Is Oneil’s? How can we know, without someone who has the Spirit to judge those witnesses?
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Lori Reneri
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Michael,
When you pointed out Terri “hijacking it for her own purpose”, and then said,”you-go off on a tangent” asking Terri what does this have to do with Simon? There are more but I don’t know how to go back to copy and paste it here. Although you had good questions and did provide good points, it just sounded like you were judging her because she spoke of herself. Maybe she needed that as I pointed out. I just feel that we should be able to share things happening in our lives that we struggle with, or need advice on, but lately it just isn’t so. Correction is good when needed, but support is too.
Lauren,
You’re right, I do hold a similar sentiment. I know it’s not a good thing to go by emotions, but quite honestly I just think its better to let a person know they’re not alone rather than kick them when they’re down. “God says love one another as I have loved you”. If this is a stumbling block, I will be looking to the Lord to remove it.
When you pointed out Terri “hijacking it for her own purpose”, and then said,”you-go off on a tangent” asking Terri what does this have to do with Simon? There are more but I don’t know how to go back to copy and paste it here. Although you had good questions and did provide good points, it just sounded like you were judging her because she spoke of herself. Maybe she needed that as I pointed out. I just feel that we should be able to share things happening in our lives that we struggle with, or need advice on, but lately it just isn’t so. Correction is good when needed, but support is too.
Lauren,
You’re right, I do hold a similar sentiment. I know it’s not a good thing to go by emotions, but quite honestly I just think its better to let a person know they’re not alone rather than kick them when they’re down. “God says love one another as I have loved you”. If this is a stumbling block, I will be looking to the Lord to remove it.
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Ronnie Tanner
- Forum Admin
- Posts: 1650
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 am
- Location: Helena, Montana
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
A forum user, Yvonne, sent the following in response to this thread:
I don't understand all this stuff I'm seeing on here. That first message whoever wrote it has done a grave thing telling her daughter she can't love her. That's not right..fair enough not to accept her behaviour but to cut off from & stop loving. Is this the advice given her. She needs to listen to her husband as unto the Lord. Everyone seems to hear the devil when it's just their own stinkin flesh not wanting to hear voice of truth maybe.
I can't believe this site. .it is full of religiosity & ridiculous conversations. Listening to some self professed prophet like Ratana (a so called prophet of God to the Maori people of NZ).
Please delete my details from your account.
Thank you.
Yvonne
Ps-I pray the Lord open the eyes of your understanding to behold the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't understand all this stuff I'm seeing on here. That first message whoever wrote it has done a grave thing telling her daughter she can't love her. That's not right..fair enough not to accept her behaviour but to cut off from & stop loving. Is this the advice given her. She needs to listen to her husband as unto the Lord. Everyone seems to hear the devil when it's just their own stinkin flesh not wanting to hear voice of truth maybe.
I can't believe this site. .it is full of religiosity & ridiculous conversations. Listening to some self professed prophet like Ratana (a so called prophet of God to the Maori people of NZ).
Please delete my details from your account.
Thank you.
Yvonne
Ps-I pray the Lord open the eyes of your understanding to behold the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
We will delete your account, Yvonne. I will say that I'm not in agreement with everything being approved to be posted at the Forum. Members need the freedom to express themselves. They learn that way, opening themselves to learning and correction.
You, on the other hand, would prefer censure? And you see yourself as what, tolerant and understanding?
Terri didn't say she didn't love her daughter. She being a mother naturally loves her children. However, she cannot countenance the breaking of God's Law under her roof. Breaking His Law is the definition of sin. Sin brings wrath according to the Scriptures.
Her daughter has determined to live contrary to God. What's her mother to do? What did God require parents to do with such waywardness? Look it up and inform yourself by the Lord and not by the world, the whole of which lies in wickedness, according to the Scriptures.
Question: Are you married? Do you obey your husband? Most accusers are guilty of the very things they criticize others for. Here you are, severely criticizing elders at TPOT without understanding or knowledge and therefore, without justification. Go your way, sweetie. You have no part with God nor with His site.
"Self-appointed prophet"? Do you know that from God? I have not appointed myself. God has appointed me. You ignorantly and belligerently speak against Him. And as His prophet, I tell you He's finished winking at the kind of crap you're throwing out here. Watch for judgment; it's at your door and entering. This didn't happen for nothing.
You, on the other hand, would prefer censure? And you see yourself as what, tolerant and understanding?
Terri didn't say she didn't love her daughter. She being a mother naturally loves her children. However, she cannot countenance the breaking of God's Law under her roof. Breaking His Law is the definition of sin. Sin brings wrath according to the Scriptures.
Her daughter has determined to live contrary to God. What's her mother to do? What did God require parents to do with such waywardness? Look it up and inform yourself by the Lord and not by the world, the whole of which lies in wickedness, according to the Scriptures.
Question: Are you married? Do you obey your husband? Most accusers are guilty of the very things they criticize others for. Here you are, severely criticizing elders at TPOT without understanding or knowledge and therefore, without justification. Go your way, sweetie. You have no part with God nor with His site.
"Self-appointed prophet"? Do you know that from God? I have not appointed myself. God has appointed me. You ignorantly and belligerently speak against Him. And as His prophet, I tell you He's finished winking at the kind of crap you're throwing out here. Watch for judgment; it's at your door and entering. This didn't happen for nothing.
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Michael Vavases
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Lori,
Again, you might be correct here. I apologize to all if I've spoken out of turn. I will be and have been carefully considering everything said here. Perhaps I've been too hasty with my words.
I don't have anything else to say at this point.
- Michael
Again, you might be correct here. I apologize to all if I've spoken out of turn. I will be and have been carefully considering everything said here. Perhaps I've been too hasty with my words.
I don't have anything else to say at this point.
- Michael
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Terri Cabreros
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:52 pm
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
Yvonne
You have set yourself on the throne of God judging, yet have no understanding of the Lord and His ways having ears to hear but not hearing and eyes to see but not seeing.
As a mother, I have loved my daughters with a carnal, emotional love but in loving the Lord, I have learned to love them with His love, wanting His best for them instead of what I think my best for them is.
My daughter has chosen a lifestyle that is contrary to His love, His laws, and commandments.
She wants me to love and accept her in the lifestyle she has chosen and that I cannot do.
I have not seen her since but do I completely ignore her and pretend like she doesn't exist when I do see her? No, I don't believe so, Lord willing.
As for my husband, he is not a believer and as you may have red, we had a big conflict when sins first started to be addressed in our home. He wanted compromise then and I couldn't...in listening to the Lord's counsel by Victor and standing with the Lord, He prevailed.
I do obey my husband in the physical matters and there are times where he has and is given godly wisdom which I heed, but on the spiritual matters which are life and death where he has no understanding, I listen to the Lord.
My husband is still not a believer but he is pleased to dwell with me and the Lord has blessed us in many ways tremendously...healthwise, financially and most of all, spiritually.
By His grace and mercy, the Lord has opened my eyes to see and ears to hear, for which I am truly thankful!
You have set yourself on the throne of God judging, yet have no understanding of the Lord and His ways having ears to hear but not hearing and eyes to see but not seeing.
As a mother, I have loved my daughters with a carnal, emotional love but in loving the Lord, I have learned to love them with His love, wanting His best for them instead of what I think my best for them is.
My daughter has chosen a lifestyle that is contrary to His love, His laws, and commandments.
She wants me to love and accept her in the lifestyle she has chosen and that I cannot do.
I have not seen her since but do I completely ignore her and pretend like she doesn't exist when I do see her? No, I don't believe so, Lord willing.
As for my husband, he is not a believer and as you may have red, we had a big conflict when sins first started to be addressed in our home. He wanted compromise then and I couldn't...in listening to the Lord's counsel by Victor and standing with the Lord, He prevailed.
I do obey my husband in the physical matters and there are times where he has and is given godly wisdom which I heed, but on the spiritual matters which are life and death where he has no understanding, I listen to the Lord.
My husband is still not a believer but he is pleased to dwell with me and the Lord has blessed us in many ways tremendously...healthwise, financially and most of all, spiritually.
By His grace and mercy, the Lord has opened my eyes to see and ears to hear, for which I am truly thankful!
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Nicholas Carpenter
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:36 pm
- Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Re: Simon Hall - "The end, one way or another"
I'm glad we are given to express ourselves even when we are at fault here. Even though discipline and correction hurts; it bears peaceable and worthwhile fruits.
I'm glad for the correction I was given here; and recently experienced victory in confessing Christ coming in the flesh through Victor. I know that the conversations in this thread were an important piece that the Lord used to reprove me; and to show me how I've been afraid to say that truth. The Lord is merciful; that's for sure.
I'm glad for the correction I was given here; and recently experienced victory in confessing Christ coming in the flesh through Victor. I know that the conversations in this thread were an important piece that the Lord used to reprove me; and to show me how I've been afraid to say that truth. The Lord is merciful; that's for sure.