Hello,
First off thanks for setting up this website. Thanks for your dedication. I've read a lot of your articles they've greatly helped me.
What is your views on the biblical flat earth vs globe model we are taught?
Is the Earth Flat?
-
Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
The earth is round, as are all the spheres of God's creation, like the moon and sun. Figurative language in Scripture confounds those without Godly reason.
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Yes, the Bible certainly says the earth is "round", but DISKS are round, too. And flat. Although I originally thought as almost everybody else, that the world was a ball, or globe, I NOW realize, after researching FOR MYSELF, that the earth is flat. And now that I realize this, EVERYTHING makes more sense. When Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him. This is NOT possible on a ball because NOT all countries have internet or tv service. And when they built the tower of Babel, it now makes sense that they were trying to build a tower STRAIGHT UP. HOW would this make sense on a ball? If this sounds crazy to you, or totally insane, as it did to me (at first), please research for yourself. If you're interested, I have 2 SHORT videos about it, but I don't know if this forum will allow links or not. Above all, ask the Holy Spirit to lead you INTO ALL TRUTH, and just remain teachable. If you want to know the truth, ask Him. And do the research. But either way, it isn't a salvation issue, so it certainly won't affect your salvation one way or the other.
-
Paul Cohen
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl, you write:
“Above all, ask the Holy Spirit to lead you INTO ALL TRUTH, and just remain teachable. If you want to know the truth, ask Him. And do the research. But either way, it isn't a salvation issue, so it certainly won't affect your salvation one way or the other.”
What makes you think God hasn’t already led us into all Truth? What makes you so certain we’re wrong on this issue and you’re right? Because you did the research? How do you know we haven’t? And above all, how do you know we don’t have revelation and understanding from the Lord Jesus Christ? We do, and by Him we know that you have none.
Therefore you’re wrong in saying this isn’t a salvation issue. It is – because you’ve dug in on your carnal thinking, which is at enmity with God, even as you now oppose Him in us, waxing spiritually superior and patronizing us in your erring presumptuousness. You refuse His salvation in preference to your own understanding. But that’s not all – you also seek to spread your cancerous confidence in knowledge to others. That must stop, and will.
The apostle Paul wrote these words to those who had true knowledge, which of course apply to those like yourself who walk in false knowledge:
“We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn’t yet know as he ought to know” (1 Corinthians 8:1-2 WEB).
Carl, you have nothing from the Lord and know nothing yet as you ought to know. The shape of the earth isn’t an issue in itself, but trusting in your knowledge of the truth is a major stumblingblock to salvation in Christ, a deadbolt on the door to the Kingdom of God.
Here’s an example of the kind of puffing up Paul was talking about to the Corinthians, from a sign put up by religious flat-earthers in Illinois at the turn of the last century:
“No one except a low down scoundrel, a person lower than the dirtiest dog, yes lower than a skunk, would call the earth a globe in Zion city.”
You may deny it, but that’s the spirit you’re coming in, which is the fruit of trusting in yourself and your knowledge that feeds the monster of self-righteousness.
In your sin, you say the stupidest things:
“When Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him. This is NOT possible on a ball because NOT all countries have internet or tv service.”
The Bible is a spiritual book, but you make a fool of yourself trying to comprehend it with carnal eyes. “Every eye” seeing the Lord is a spiritual event, not a physical one (which is an absurdity, if rationally considered, whether the earth were global or flat):
“Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him…” (Revelation 1:7 ESV).
This is not a limited one-time historical event. It is an ongoing reality that will not go away until the Lord’s Kingdom fills the earth. But as one of those who presently pierce Him, you’re oblivious to His coming.
“Professing to be wise, they became fools…” (Romans 1:22 EMTV).
“Above all, ask the Holy Spirit to lead you INTO ALL TRUTH, and just remain teachable. If you want to know the truth, ask Him. And do the research. But either way, it isn't a salvation issue, so it certainly won't affect your salvation one way or the other.”
What makes you think God hasn’t already led us into all Truth? What makes you so certain we’re wrong on this issue and you’re right? Because you did the research? How do you know we haven’t? And above all, how do you know we don’t have revelation and understanding from the Lord Jesus Christ? We do, and by Him we know that you have none.
Therefore you’re wrong in saying this isn’t a salvation issue. It is – because you’ve dug in on your carnal thinking, which is at enmity with God, even as you now oppose Him in us, waxing spiritually superior and patronizing us in your erring presumptuousness. You refuse His salvation in preference to your own understanding. But that’s not all – you also seek to spread your cancerous confidence in knowledge to others. That must stop, and will.
The apostle Paul wrote these words to those who had true knowledge, which of course apply to those like yourself who walk in false knowledge:
“We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. But if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he doesn’t yet know as he ought to know” (1 Corinthians 8:1-2 WEB).
Carl, you have nothing from the Lord and know nothing yet as you ought to know. The shape of the earth isn’t an issue in itself, but trusting in your knowledge of the truth is a major stumblingblock to salvation in Christ, a deadbolt on the door to the Kingdom of God.
Here’s an example of the kind of puffing up Paul was talking about to the Corinthians, from a sign put up by religious flat-earthers in Illinois at the turn of the last century:
“No one except a low down scoundrel, a person lower than the dirtiest dog, yes lower than a skunk, would call the earth a globe in Zion city.”
You may deny it, but that’s the spirit you’re coming in, which is the fruit of trusting in yourself and your knowledge that feeds the monster of self-righteousness.
In your sin, you say the stupidest things:
“When Jesus comes again, every eye will see Him. This is NOT possible on a ball because NOT all countries have internet or tv service.”
The Bible is a spiritual book, but you make a fool of yourself trying to comprehend it with carnal eyes. “Every eye” seeing the Lord is a spiritual event, not a physical one (which is an absurdity, if rationally considered, whether the earth were global or flat):
“Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him…” (Revelation 1:7 ESV).
This is not a limited one-time historical event. It is an ongoing reality that will not go away until the Lord’s Kingdom fills the earth. But as one of those who presently pierce Him, you’re oblivious to His coming.
“Professing to be wise, they became fools…” (Romans 1:22 EMTV).
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Wow! Paul, according to YOU, I am:
stupid
self-righteous
a fool
carnal
patronizing
puffed up with pride
eternally damned
And all because I believe the earth is flat? And because I give valid reasons for it? That makes me carnally minded, a fool, self-righteous, and full of PRIDE?? You attack me personally, but really said NOTHING about the issue of flat earth. This speaks VOLUMES about you personally. Now hopefully someone else will reply with actual content about the actual topic.
stupid
self-righteous
a fool
carnal
patronizing
puffed up with pride
eternally damned
And all because I believe the earth is flat? And because I give valid reasons for it? That makes me carnally minded, a fool, self-righteous, and full of PRIDE?? You attack me personally, but really said NOTHING about the issue of flat earth. This speaks VOLUMES about you personally. Now hopefully someone else will reply with actual content about the actual topic.
-
Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Just happened to be at my computer when Jones' post came in. I'll quickly reply and let others at it here.
Yes, according to Paul and others of us here, Carl, you ARE stupid, self-righteous, a fool, carnal, patronizing, puffed up with pride, and I might add, ignorant, proud, and closed to the Lord Jesus Christ, leaving you a child of hell.
So you were perceptive enough to get that much in what you've said. As to the "eternally damned," you fall short again. As you've made foolish and false assumptions about the earth being flat (truly, one must be a sheer idiot to think it, particularly with all the Heavenly and earthly proof available to the contrary), so now you assume we said you were eternally damned. Just where did you get anything in Paul's words to lead you to THAT conclusion?
But God be praised and glorified, He saves and will save even fools like you by and by and when that happens, you'll shake your head in shame at having had such stupid notions of your Creator and His works and ways.
And no, I'm not calling a brother a fool, contrary to the Counsel of the Lord; I'm calling one who presumes to be my brother in Christ, but who essentially says in his heart, "There is no God." I'm calling a fool those the Lord Himself called fools who wouldn't listen to His wisdom and counsel. I'm calling a fool one who is described as you've concluded by Paul's words. Isn't it high time you knew you were a fool? Isn't that where the journey begins to be delivered from darkness and enlightened?
Now, I expect others might be nicer to you than I am here, and perhaps they ought to be, but that's up to them and the Lord.
Yes, according to Paul and others of us here, Carl, you ARE stupid, self-righteous, a fool, carnal, patronizing, puffed up with pride, and I might add, ignorant, proud, and closed to the Lord Jesus Christ, leaving you a child of hell.
So you were perceptive enough to get that much in what you've said. As to the "eternally damned," you fall short again. As you've made foolish and false assumptions about the earth being flat (truly, one must be a sheer idiot to think it, particularly with all the Heavenly and earthly proof available to the contrary), so now you assume we said you were eternally damned. Just where did you get anything in Paul's words to lead you to THAT conclusion?
But God be praised and glorified, He saves and will save even fools like you by and by and when that happens, you'll shake your head in shame at having had such stupid notions of your Creator and His works and ways.
And no, I'm not calling a brother a fool, contrary to the Counsel of the Lord; I'm calling one who presumes to be my brother in Christ, but who essentially says in his heart, "There is no God." I'm calling a fool those the Lord Himself called fools who wouldn't listen to His wisdom and counsel. I'm calling a fool one who is described as you've concluded by Paul's words. Isn't it high time you knew you were a fool? Isn't that where the journey begins to be delivered from darkness and enlightened?
Now, I expect others might be nicer to you than I am here, and perhaps they ought to be, but that's up to them and the Lord.
-
Larry Crutcher
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:53 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl,
Gods commandment from the beginning is: “...Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind…”
What is the forth thing mentioned above? Heart, soul, strength and what? You shall love God with ALL your mind. Your mind is accessing information from a very bad source. I’m not talking about any earthly source like the internet. When Adam rebelled against God, he died and rebellion entered into humanity for all time. We know that immediately he died and his mind was in darkness. He hid himself from God. Why? He thought that something was wrong with him being naked. God said, WHO TOLD YOU YOU WERE NAKED?” Being naked was no problem to God as “...Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, ...” (Hebrews) It was his corrupted mind that caused him to believe that lie. All who came after Adam including you and me are trapped by a carnal mind that leads to death. The liar said, “...For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil…” That was a part truth, part lie. Knowing good and evil is definitely what controls your life…but you are not like God.
Most people are still blissfully partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and have no idea that it is the root of all lies and confusion. You can never come to know Christ or gain any spiritual truth from your unregenerate mind. Even though Christ sent the Holy Spirit to us to teach us ALL things, unless you repent and turn in humility to God, you are yet in darkness. You have read and studied and learned things that are tainted with lies. The purpose is to keep you a slave. “The Earth is flat” You gave your heart and mind to that instead of to GOD. It has become an idol. You love your flat earth doctrine more than God. Conforming to idols of so called “truth”; every religion on Earth lives there.
Romans says, “... I urge you (brothers) to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.”
I plead with you Carl, turn away from all your idolatrous beliefs and love God with ALL your mind. Repent, be holy and pleasing, let your heart be turned from all carnal mindedness and begin to obey God by presenting your body (and mind) to God as a sacrifice. Don’t reject my words with a hard heart. You are in great danger now.
Lawrence
Gods commandment from the beginning is: “...Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind…”
What is the forth thing mentioned above? Heart, soul, strength and what? You shall love God with ALL your mind. Your mind is accessing information from a very bad source. I’m not talking about any earthly source like the internet. When Adam rebelled against God, he died and rebellion entered into humanity for all time. We know that immediately he died and his mind was in darkness. He hid himself from God. Why? He thought that something was wrong with him being naked. God said, WHO TOLD YOU YOU WERE NAKED?” Being naked was no problem to God as “...Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, ...” (Hebrews) It was his corrupted mind that caused him to believe that lie. All who came after Adam including you and me are trapped by a carnal mind that leads to death. The liar said, “...For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil…” That was a part truth, part lie. Knowing good and evil is definitely what controls your life…but you are not like God.
Most people are still blissfully partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and have no idea that it is the root of all lies and confusion. You can never come to know Christ or gain any spiritual truth from your unregenerate mind. Even though Christ sent the Holy Spirit to us to teach us ALL things, unless you repent and turn in humility to God, you are yet in darkness. You have read and studied and learned things that are tainted with lies. The purpose is to keep you a slave. “The Earth is flat” You gave your heart and mind to that instead of to GOD. It has become an idol. You love your flat earth doctrine more than God. Conforming to idols of so called “truth”; every religion on Earth lives there.
Romans says, “... I urge you (brothers) to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.”
I plead with you Carl, turn away from all your idolatrous beliefs and love God with ALL your mind. Repent, be holy and pleasing, let your heart be turned from all carnal mindedness and begin to obey God by presenting your body (and mind) to God as a sacrifice. Don’t reject my words with a hard heart. You are in great danger now.
Lawrence
-
Alan Agnew
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:54 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl, who did you learn this Flat Earth stuff from? Did he or she have the Holy Spirit and was filled with truth? One example may be Rob Skiba, Richie, etc.
Consider if you learned from a man of God or a fool. Flat earthers flood YouTube, for example, and wouldn't their messages about Flat Earth make God seem to be a fool if the Earth is really a globe?
Or did you learn it all on your own or from God personally?
Consider if you learned from a man of God or a fool. Flat earthers flood YouTube, for example, and wouldn't their messages about Flat Earth make God seem to be a fool if the Earth is really a globe?
Or did you learn it all on your own or from God personally?
-
Andrew Battaglia
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:37 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl,
I have a few things to say here. First, I was going down the flat earth road a while back and almost convinced of it like you are, so I could relate. It wasn't until I was told that I was still living through my own carnal knowledge that I stopped trying to figure out things like that. I stopped "worrying" about conspiracies and things of that sort because I was still eating from the tree of knowledge and, therefore, avoiding coming to the tree of life. It is clear for all to see that you are seeking after carnal knowledge as Paul, Victor, and others state. In all that was said by Paul, you could see nothing of value because you still have the blindfolds on, going on in your carnal wisdom that seeks to preserve the flesh. The flat earth theory is not the issue, pride is, and if you could put that aside for a minute and re-read what Paul stated, you might find the life giving wisdom that is provided for your sake, and that of others. It's unlikely that you will, and I don't fault you for it, but until you move from carnal reasoning you will not be able to receive the life giving waters, which come only when you stop seeking to preserve yourself. I've been where you are, and in many ways, still am, but the Lord is merciful and long suffering indeed. Give thanks for being brought here by the Lord to receive correction from Him.
1Th 5:18 In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
I have a few things to say here. First, I was going down the flat earth road a while back and almost convinced of it like you are, so I could relate. It wasn't until I was told that I was still living through my own carnal knowledge that I stopped trying to figure out things like that. I stopped "worrying" about conspiracies and things of that sort because I was still eating from the tree of knowledge and, therefore, avoiding coming to the tree of life. It is clear for all to see that you are seeking after carnal knowledge as Paul, Victor, and others state. In all that was said by Paul, you could see nothing of value because you still have the blindfolds on, going on in your carnal wisdom that seeks to preserve the flesh. The flat earth theory is not the issue, pride is, and if you could put that aside for a minute and re-read what Paul stated, you might find the life giving wisdom that is provided for your sake, and that of others. It's unlikely that you will, and I don't fault you for it, but until you move from carnal reasoning you will not be able to receive the life giving waters, which come only when you stop seeking to preserve yourself. I've been where you are, and in many ways, still am, but the Lord is merciful and long suffering indeed. Give thanks for being brought here by the Lord to receive correction from Him.
1Th 5:18 In everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
"But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these." -2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB
I see how it is here at "path of truth": Ever since I replied, I have been viciously attacked, assumed to be "full of pride", and treated as "a child of Hell"... SIMPLY FOR BELIEVING, AND SAYING, THE EARTH AS FLAT, AS MANY CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS DO.
Your vicious, hateful attitudes towards me haven't been overlooked by God. And according to Timothy 3, I should avoid men who are "unloving", and "brutal", which perfectly describes you, Paul and Victor. Nobody here even KNOWS me, I am a total stranger to you, and yet, somehow you seem to hate me. And your hatred of me, is definitely inspired BY DEMONS. (The Lord would NEVER inspire such hateful, and FALSE accusations!) Someday when we all stand before the Lord, and you realize how you treated one of His own, one He loves very deeply, you will see how wrong you are now. But I forgive you all, and I hope the Lord does, too, but He will NOT be mocked! What started out as a flat earth discussion, has ended with me realizing neither one of you could POSSIBLY be saved. In fact, I suspect you are a homosexual couple, but that is neither here nor there. I can't help but wonder... if you treat a born-again Christian such as myself like crap, HOW do you treat OTHERS? I shake the dust from my feet.
I see how it is here at "path of truth": Ever since I replied, I have been viciously attacked, assumed to be "full of pride", and treated as "a child of Hell"... SIMPLY FOR BELIEVING, AND SAYING, THE EARTH AS FLAT, AS MANY CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS DO.
Your vicious, hateful attitudes towards me haven't been overlooked by God. And according to Timothy 3, I should avoid men who are "unloving", and "brutal", which perfectly describes you, Paul and Victor. Nobody here even KNOWS me, I am a total stranger to you, and yet, somehow you seem to hate me. And your hatred of me, is definitely inspired BY DEMONS. (The Lord would NEVER inspire such hateful, and FALSE accusations!) Someday when we all stand before the Lord, and you realize how you treated one of His own, one He loves very deeply, you will see how wrong you are now. But I forgive you all, and I hope the Lord does, too, but He will NOT be mocked! What started out as a flat earth discussion, has ended with me realizing neither one of you could POSSIBLY be saved. In fact, I suspect you are a homosexual couple, but that is neither here nor there. I can't help but wonder... if you treat a born-again Christian such as myself like crap, HOW do you treat OTHERS? I shake the dust from my feet.
-
Brandon LaBerteaux
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:35 pm
- Location: Currently: Denver, CO
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl, lets slow down a minute here. Homosexual couple, demons, unloving, brutal?
You've posted three messages on a forum of people you know nothing about or seemingly haven't taken any time to gather some wisdom and go before the Lord with.
Forget flat earth for a minute, who cares? If the earth is flat does it change anything? Does it change your life and relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? The whole point is Jesus Christ and how you are trusting in Him to save you.
So let's address some issues that have risen from your posts. First, when Paul and Victor are addressing your attitude, it's not because they hate you or condemn you, it's because it's evident that it's ungodly. Despite if you know Christ or not (the Lord knows my emotions get the better of me at times), after one post to your disliking you come out guns blazing. That's not the reaction of one who knows Christ, but of one still in darkness. I'm not saying this to offend you, but to show you your error.
Have you met Paul and Victor? Then how can you be a judge of whether or not they are a homosexual couple. I can say having spoken with them and corresponding for some time, they aren't homosexuals, they are men of God, and that they don't say anything from their own selves but by what the Lord gives them.
You're posturing in pride, and over something foolish as the shape of the earth. Externals don't matter, it's what's inside that counts, and instead of being so quick to be offended and defensive, take a moment to reflect. Why are you so hurt and so angry? You're not condemned to eternal hell because there is no such thing, but in the fires of hell and unbelief you reside, because you are full of an angry and haughty spirit. You say we don't know you, but you haven't given any inclination that you are otherwise--what, preaching love while you are fuming in hatred and false accusations.
Based off your first post, it doesn't appear you came here to learn but to teach, to share what you believe to be the truth, but when the Lord gave you His Truth it cut you to the core. Acquiesce that you may not be knowledgeable, apologize for overreacting, and see how the Lord can be merciful. It's simple to humble yourself, but pride is the sting you are experiencing.
We don't hate you here. Maybe it's a type of love you are unfamiliar with, but let's turn to Scripture for understanding :
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
Proverbs 27:6
You're treading on shifting sands where you stand, leaning on God to justify when you don't realize He is against you in this matter regarding your attitude and state. The Scripture you quote can be used to describe your spirit in this thread: lover of self, boastful, arrogant, ungrateful, unloving, irreconcilable, without self-control, brutal, reckless, conceited, and denying His power. Hard words, but true. I don't say them out of hate or to be brutal, but so you might see that out of your own mouth you condemn yourself, as it often goes with those who so quickly take offense with what The Path of Truth has to offer.
If you decide to stick around instead of running off licking your wounds, you will come to recognize like many of us have that your reaction is neither uncommon nor justified. It is the broad path that flees, but I implore you to take the narrow in patience and humility.
You've posted three messages on a forum of people you know nothing about or seemingly haven't taken any time to gather some wisdom and go before the Lord with.
Forget flat earth for a minute, who cares? If the earth is flat does it change anything? Does it change your life and relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? The whole point is Jesus Christ and how you are trusting in Him to save you.
So let's address some issues that have risen from your posts. First, when Paul and Victor are addressing your attitude, it's not because they hate you or condemn you, it's because it's evident that it's ungodly. Despite if you know Christ or not (the Lord knows my emotions get the better of me at times), after one post to your disliking you come out guns blazing. That's not the reaction of one who knows Christ, but of one still in darkness. I'm not saying this to offend you, but to show you your error.
Have you met Paul and Victor? Then how can you be a judge of whether or not they are a homosexual couple. I can say having spoken with them and corresponding for some time, they aren't homosexuals, they are men of God, and that they don't say anything from their own selves but by what the Lord gives them.
You're posturing in pride, and over something foolish as the shape of the earth. Externals don't matter, it's what's inside that counts, and instead of being so quick to be offended and defensive, take a moment to reflect. Why are you so hurt and so angry? You're not condemned to eternal hell because there is no such thing, but in the fires of hell and unbelief you reside, because you are full of an angry and haughty spirit. You say we don't know you, but you haven't given any inclination that you are otherwise--what, preaching love while you are fuming in hatred and false accusations.
Based off your first post, it doesn't appear you came here to learn but to teach, to share what you believe to be the truth, but when the Lord gave you His Truth it cut you to the core. Acquiesce that you may not be knowledgeable, apologize for overreacting, and see how the Lord can be merciful. It's simple to humble yourself, but pride is the sting you are experiencing.
We don't hate you here. Maybe it's a type of love you are unfamiliar with, but let's turn to Scripture for understanding :
“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.”
Proverbs 27:6
You're treading on shifting sands where you stand, leaning on God to justify when you don't realize He is against you in this matter regarding your attitude and state. The Scripture you quote can be used to describe your spirit in this thread: lover of self, boastful, arrogant, ungrateful, unloving, irreconcilable, without self-control, brutal, reckless, conceited, and denying His power. Hard words, but true. I don't say them out of hate or to be brutal, but so you might see that out of your own mouth you condemn yourself, as it often goes with those who so quickly take offense with what The Path of Truth has to offer.
If you decide to stick around instead of running off licking your wounds, you will come to recognize like many of us have that your reaction is neither uncommon nor justified. It is the broad path that flees, but I implore you to take the narrow in patience and humility.
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Allow me to CORRECT you (oops, there I go again asserting my proud, haughty spirit!!!!) You sound like a reprobate CULT member. Is Path of Truth a cult? People like you do more HARM than good. And you're so blind you cannot see what you're doing wrong. Are you serious when you say, "Maybe it's a type of love you are unfamiliar with"?? You people are vicious and self-righteous and yet you accuse ME of being angry. Yes, I am angry at the Pharisees who've attacked me here. And I am concerned you will hear from the Lord, "Depart from me, I never knew you".
-
Sarah Stuckey
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Hi Carl,
In this paper here (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... a-cult.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is the answer to your question: "Is Path of Truth a
cult?" I'm not sure if you will read it, but it's worth taking the time to read if you want to know the truth.
Sarah
In this paper here (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings ... a-cult.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) is the answer to your question: "Is Path of Truth a
cult?" I'm not sure if you will read it, but it's worth taking the time to read if you want to know the truth.
Sarah
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
NOW I am beginning to understand. You have that cult mentality (we are so misunderstood, only true Christians understand us, WE are the ONLY TRUTH, and anyone who speaks AGAINST us must be from the devil)! Is that about right? Is that accurate? And if ANYONE says anything your leaders don't understand or agree with, then you attack (oops, I meant "love".) You are forever being PERSECUTED, aren't you? You act like Christians, but if you really knew Jesus, He isn't harsh, cold, and hard-hearted as YOU are. You believe everyone will end up in Heaven because of your misunderstanding of Scripture. So Victor says: "The fact is that I lead, and not as a hireling. I am sent by God, not man, and those who are His will heed." AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T DO EXACTLY AS *YOU* WANT, VICTOR, IS CONSIDERED PROUD, A HAUGHTY SPIRIT, REBELLIOUS, ETC, ETC. And if I call you a "cult", you will believe you're being persecuted, and take it as a compliment! You talk to people like they are children (I am over 50), you are, get ready for this, YOU are FULL OF PRIDE, yet you accuse OTHERS of being prideful. You self-righteous Pharisee hypocrites! You're UN-teachable, unwilling to take correction, and ACT like you're better than others. I am sure you think I am pure rebellion, but that's because YOU are rebellious. So go ahead and keep thinking that everyone who speaks against you is falsely "persecuting" you, it keeps you puffed up with pride, and will keep people away!
-
Alan Agnew
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:54 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Yes, Carl, slow down. Look, I asked about who you learned this Flat Earth stuff from, but I now think it's better that I also ask you how the Holy Spirit brought this truth to you as you call it. You claim to be born again, after all, so you know Him, right?
I recall wondering about the shape of the Earth, too, and so there were many YouTube videos watched. Yet one thing that sadly held me back was in refusing to hear the globe position. I feared they would prove God wrong. So I was a mess, and eventually realized there is no model for Flat Earth that I could come up with to show how it works in the real world. It was bonkers, and I left the research at the time and I thought, "Well, this is too complex for me, maybe it's just gonna be a mystery of God." Therefore, my life moved on to other matters and the shape of the world did not matter really.
Sometime, I recall praying for understanding on the shape of the Earth. Safe to say now, the understanding reached me, and I know the Earth is round like a ball. Yeh, I did my research the wrong way because I lacked trust as a weak man I was. I likely would have understood quicker by trusting Him. Nevertheless, thank you, Jesus Christ.
So, as I was asking, Carl, what is your story on how God led you to believe this flat earth? Did some man of God show it? And how do we know you are born again of Christ?
I recall wondering about the shape of the Earth, too, and so there were many YouTube videos watched. Yet one thing that sadly held me back was in refusing to hear the globe position. I feared they would prove God wrong. So I was a mess, and eventually realized there is no model for Flat Earth that I could come up with to show how it works in the real world. It was bonkers, and I left the research at the time and I thought, "Well, this is too complex for me, maybe it's just gonna be a mystery of God." Therefore, my life moved on to other matters and the shape of the world did not matter really.
Sometime, I recall praying for understanding on the shape of the Earth. Safe to say now, the understanding reached me, and I know the Earth is round like a ball. Yeh, I did my research the wrong way because I lacked trust as a weak man I was. I likely would have understood quicker by trusting Him. Nevertheless, thank you, Jesus Christ.
So, as I was asking, Carl, what is your story on how God led you to believe this flat earth? Did some man of God show it? And how do we know you are born again of Christ?
-
Jeff Edwards
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:55 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Hi, I'm the original poster off this topic.
Currently we are taught the opposite of what the bible teaches.
- The big bang created everything, instead of god.
- The earth was formed over billions of years, instead of created in 7 days.
- The sun came first then earth, instead of earth then sun and moon.
etc. etc.
Genesis says there is firmanent over the earth with the sun, moon and luminaries inside and 'Planets' are wandering stars.
You have articles exposing the lies of evolution (which are great), why don't you also cover the lie of the globe earth?
Currently we are taught the opposite of what the bible teaches.
- The big bang created everything, instead of god.
- The earth was formed over billions of years, instead of created in 7 days.
- The sun came first then earth, instead of earth then sun and moon.
etc. etc.
Genesis says there is firmanent over the earth with the sun, moon and luminaries inside and 'Planets' are wandering stars.
You have articles exposing the lies of evolution (which are great), why don't you also cover the lie of the globe earth?
-
Brian McDonald
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:52 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl you said....”but if you really knew Jesus, He isn't harsh, cold, and hard-hearted as YOU are.”
Carl, is this the Jesus you are talking about or did you have another jesus in mind?
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears byheaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill andcumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:1-36
Carl is this the Jesus you are talking about, or are you talking about another jesus?
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23
Don’t forget Carl, Jesus was talking to Peter. How do you think Peter felt. Do you think Peter thought, to hell with this, this is not “love.” Peter didn’t throw a hissy fit and complain about Jesus not showing love or being to harsh or being cold and hard-hearted.
How about these other things Jesus said. Do you find them harsh, unloving, cold hearted?
“If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” Matthew5:29
What about this......
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26-27.
Does this one ring a bell in your deaf ears?
“Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:60.
Our Brother John said (I use the term “Brother” losely because I am not worthy to call the Apostle John my brother but there are others here who can claim that title) that Jesus said many other things, books full of sayings and teachings, and I am 100% sure that you would take offence at many of them. The fact is, your pride has been hurt. You and people like you talk of Jesus like He was/is some sort of wimp who went around throwing flowers at people and hugging trees all day long. You are like all the leftist libatards that are presently running amok all over the USA and other Countries around the world crying about “harsh” things and how unloving the Government is because they won’t open their borders up to god only knows what evil may be lurking among the many hundreds of thousands of people trying to enter your country illegally. Many of whom want to kill you.
Is God/Jesus being harsh and unloving because He does not support the LGBTQ “rights”. Was God being harsh when he said that homosexuality was an abomination in His sight?
Carl what you are getting here is “hard love” the sort that may save your life and you soul, if you can take it.
Is the Earth flat? I too watched the flat earth videos on YouTube. Some of them are very convincing and they put forth some strong arguments. But here’s the thing. At the end of the day, you or I are not qualified in earth, space, environment, astronomy or any other science. How many Scholarly articles have you produced on any of the above subjects. All you have to your flat earth theory is what you watched on YouTube. You have been caught, hook, line and sinker and reeled in to the same deception like many before you. Please tell us of your flat earth theory. In your own words, explain to us, why and how the earth is flat. No point in posting a link to YouTube I’m sure most of us have watched at least one.
Carl, listen to the truth for once. Get of the “Jesus is loveie dovie wagon” and learn the hard truth. Toughen up and take the bangs, the hard love. You will be thankful for it in the end.
Carl, is this the Jesus you are talking about or did you have another jesus in mind?
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears byheaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill andcumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:1-36
Carl is this the Jesus you are talking about, or are you talking about another jesus?
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23
Don’t forget Carl, Jesus was talking to Peter. How do you think Peter felt. Do you think Peter thought, to hell with this, this is not “love.” Peter didn’t throw a hissy fit and complain about Jesus not showing love or being to harsh or being cold and hard-hearted.
How about these other things Jesus said. Do you find them harsh, unloving, cold hearted?
“If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” Matthew5:29
What about this......
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. 27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26-27.
Does this one ring a bell in your deaf ears?
“Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.” Luke 9:60.
Our Brother John said (I use the term “Brother” losely because I am not worthy to call the Apostle John my brother but there are others here who can claim that title) that Jesus said many other things, books full of sayings and teachings, and I am 100% sure that you would take offence at many of them. The fact is, your pride has been hurt. You and people like you talk of Jesus like He was/is some sort of wimp who went around throwing flowers at people and hugging trees all day long. You are like all the leftist libatards that are presently running amok all over the USA and other Countries around the world crying about “harsh” things and how unloving the Government is because they won’t open their borders up to god only knows what evil may be lurking among the many hundreds of thousands of people trying to enter your country illegally. Many of whom want to kill you.
Is God/Jesus being harsh and unloving because He does not support the LGBTQ “rights”. Was God being harsh when he said that homosexuality was an abomination in His sight?
Carl what you are getting here is “hard love” the sort that may save your life and you soul, if you can take it.
Is the Earth flat? I too watched the flat earth videos on YouTube. Some of them are very convincing and they put forth some strong arguments. But here’s the thing. At the end of the day, you or I are not qualified in earth, space, environment, astronomy or any other science. How many Scholarly articles have you produced on any of the above subjects. All you have to your flat earth theory is what you watched on YouTube. You have been caught, hook, line and sinker and reeled in to the same deception like many before you. Please tell us of your flat earth theory. In your own words, explain to us, why and how the earth is flat. No point in posting a link to YouTube I’m sure most of us have watched at least one.
Carl, listen to the truth for once. Get of the “Jesus is loveie dovie wagon” and learn the hard truth. Toughen up and take the bangs, the hard love. You will be thankful for it in the end.
-
Brian McDonald
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:52 am
- Location: Ireland
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Jeff Edwards, I can't speak with any authority on the subject of “flat earth” and I certainly don't claim to speak here with any authority from God. This is merely my own inferior thoughts in answer to your post.
the scriptures you mention are below.
You said in your post and I quote “Genesis says there is a firmament over the earth with the sun, moon and luminaries inside and “Planets” (not sure why you highlight planets, is there a point) are wandering stars”
Some bibles use the word vault rather than firmament, but as I understand it, they are talking about the same thing, i.e. a space between something. In this case we are talking about a firmament or vault which separates the waters above the earth from the waters below. Here is an explanation from Wikipedia
In Biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere, conceived as a vast solid dome. According to the Genesis creation narrative, God created the firmament to separate the "waters above" the earth from the "waters below" the earth.
And here are the scriptures you are referring to in your post.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1: 6-10 KJV
and here.
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1: 14-18 KJV
When I read or red your post I thought prayerfully….Lord, what is this firmament or vault and what does it mean, the waters above and the waters below. In my minds eye (don't laugh) I seen what looked like a vast bubble. The earth, moon, sun and all the planets and stars were inside this vast bubble and the bubble seemed as if it was suspended in water.
Could it be possible that everything we know, earth, sky, space and all that is in it, is something similar to what we call a Snow Globe; and that out there somewhere, way beyond the known universe there is water completely surrounding it all. Water above, water below. Your problem Jeff is thinking small. God thinks BIG. God sees the big picture, whereas you/we only see what God in His wisdom wants us to see. Of course, I could be wrong but does it really matter. None of this gets me any closer to Jesus, my Lord and God, He who created you and me and everyone and everything else for His own glory, does it? Jeff, you say that the Globe earth is a lie and like most Flat-earthers claim, some deep conspiracy, something to keep us all in the dark and hide the truth from us. Do yourself a big favour Jeff and put this flat earth stuff behind you. If you want real truth then “Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:” Isaiah 55: 6 (KJV)
The Lord is near Jeff. He is in this place if you are willing to look for Him.
the scriptures you mention are below.
You said in your post and I quote “Genesis says there is a firmament over the earth with the sun, moon and luminaries inside and “Planets” (not sure why you highlight planets, is there a point) are wandering stars”
Some bibles use the word vault rather than firmament, but as I understand it, they are talking about the same thing, i.e. a space between something. In this case we are talking about a firmament or vault which separates the waters above the earth from the waters below. Here is an explanation from Wikipedia
In Biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere, conceived as a vast solid dome. According to the Genesis creation narrative, God created the firmament to separate the "waters above" the earth from the "waters below" the earth.
And here are the scriptures you are referring to in your post.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1: 6-10 KJV
and here.
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1: 14-18 KJV
When I read or red your post I thought prayerfully….Lord, what is this firmament or vault and what does it mean, the waters above and the waters below. In my minds eye (don't laugh) I seen what looked like a vast bubble. The earth, moon, sun and all the planets and stars were inside this vast bubble and the bubble seemed as if it was suspended in water.
Could it be possible that everything we know, earth, sky, space and all that is in it, is something similar to what we call a Snow Globe; and that out there somewhere, way beyond the known universe there is water completely surrounding it all. Water above, water below. Your problem Jeff is thinking small. God thinks BIG. God sees the big picture, whereas you/we only see what God in His wisdom wants us to see. Of course, I could be wrong but does it really matter. None of this gets me any closer to Jesus, my Lord and God, He who created you and me and everyone and everything else for His own glory, does it? Jeff, you say that the Globe earth is a lie and like most Flat-earthers claim, some deep conspiracy, something to keep us all in the dark and hide the truth from us. Do yourself a big favour Jeff and put this flat earth stuff behind you. If you want real truth then “Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:” Isaiah 55: 6 (KJV)
The Lord is near Jeff. He is in this place if you are willing to look for Him.
-
Beryl Knipe
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl, I'm sorry but you sound really, really bitter! I wish you'd read the writings given FREE from the Lord, on the Website, before you start condemning with your sarcasm! Really!!
Beryl.
Beryl.
-
Beryl Knipe
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Perhaps your words should be directed to yourself? "Above all, ask the Holy Spirit [Lord and God, Jesus Christ] to lead you INTO ALL TRUTH, and just remain teachable."
Beryl.
Beryl.
-
Paul Cohen
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Hi Jeff,Jeff Edwards wrote:Hi, I'm the original poster off this topic...
You have articles exposing the lies of evolution (which are great), why don't you also cover the lie of the globe earth?
Have you not been reading the posts here? We're answering the lie of a flat earth, and more importantly, the unbelief and self-righteousness accompanying blind and zealous dedication to this doctrine.
Paul
-
Martin Van Popta
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:03 am
- Location: Iron Springs, Alberta
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Carl, you're an idiot! Everything you say demonstrates your damned stupidity.
But then I forgot about that proof text in Carl 1:23, "Where two men are gathered in my name, they are likely homosexuals."
Homosexuals! Talk about a demonic accusation. Let me guess, Aaron and Moses were gay too? And then what about Elijah and Elishah or Paul and Silas. Jesus and John?
You can sputter, curse and accuse all you want, Carl, but it's only fuel on your fire. I won't tell you to go to Hell because you've already checked in and ordered room service. It may seem more comfortable than the Path of Truth for now, but I assure you that AC eventually breaks down. Not that I have any desire to persuade you away from destruction when you're so determined to have it.
I'd like to have something constructive to say to you, but you're not giving me anything to work with. You're full of it, and you can't expect us to put a heap of shit on the potter's wheel and stick our hands in it. Why should we?!
In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, beat it, you cursed fool! We're not here to entertain idiots. Burn in Hell now!
Martin
But then I forgot about that proof text in Carl 1:23, "Where two men are gathered in my name, they are likely homosexuals."
Homosexuals! Talk about a demonic accusation. Let me guess, Aaron and Moses were gay too? And then what about Elijah and Elishah or Paul and Silas. Jesus and John?
You can sputter, curse and accuse all you want, Carl, but it's only fuel on your fire. I won't tell you to go to Hell because you've already checked in and ordered room service. It may seem more comfortable than the Path of Truth for now, but I assure you that AC eventually breaks down. Not that I have any desire to persuade you away from destruction when you're so determined to have it.
I'd like to have something constructive to say to you, but you're not giving me anything to work with. You're full of it, and you can't expect us to put a heap of shit on the potter's wheel and stick our hands in it. Why should we?!
In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, beat it, you cursed fool! We're not here to entertain idiots. Burn in Hell now!
Martin
-
Larry Crutcher
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:53 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Martin Van Popta, No doubt Carl is deceived and a mocker. He is in the fires now because of his corrupt flesh. Jude talks about men like him. But Jude also tells how a believer is to act toward those that oppose the truth.
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have mercy, who are in doubt; and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
How have you reached out to him to rescue him with such vile words? How are you snatching him from those fires? You, sir, need to learn from Christ before cursing another mans servant. You are deceived and speak not from the Spirit of God but from your own carnal mind. May God lead you to repentance. Build yourself up in faith, prayer and in the love of God so you will have the wisdom to look at the Carls of this world with more mercy.
There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.
James 2:13
But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere.
James 3:17
Lawrence
"But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have mercy, who are in doubt; and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
How have you reached out to him to rescue him with such vile words? How are you snatching him from those fires? You, sir, need to learn from Christ before cursing another mans servant. You are deceived and speak not from the Spirit of God but from your own carnal mind. May God lead you to repentance. Build yourself up in faith, prayer and in the love of God so you will have the wisdom to look at the Carls of this world with more mercy.
There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you.
James 2:13
But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere.
James 3:17
Lawrence
-
Victor Hafichuk
- Posts: 749
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Lawrence, you greatly err in rebuking Martin.
The Jude Scriptures you quote don't pertain to unbelievers but to believers. You begin by referring to "corrupt flesh." There is no other kind; it may be a poor choice of words on your part which obscures the intent of your message, fine, but all flesh is corrupt and none is incorrupt, period.
Believers can be "spotted by the flesh" because they also have a spirit in Christ while the wicked are ALL flesh and totally removed from the Lord. Carl is such a person. He has words and doctrine; he has a form of godliness (though questionable) but he is in all corruption, denying the Power Thereof, even as Paul, Martin, and I have declared in so many words. The man is a prating fool.
So your rebuke indicates little difference in spirit and presumption between you and Carl Jones. If you aren't a part of our fellowship, it won't much matter to you what is said to anyone here, but if you presume to be a member of our body, you are out of line even if Martin IS wrong, which he isn't, for Paul warns to not rebuke an elder but to entreat him as a father (1 Timothy 5:1). Nobody has appointed you an elder in our community, not any man or group of men and certainly not God.
Martin may not be your elder physically, but the "flesh profits nothing," so you aren't to despise his youth as a spiritual elder; I don't care HOW old you are.
"Vile words"? Look to yourself, "sir."
Our Forum will recognize our fellowship and the Law of God applied before it will recognize the assumed free-for-all for anyone attending. That said, if the Lord happens to bring an outsider in to correct us, well and good, but you aren't such a man. I know this by our Head, Jesus Christ.
Questions for you, Lawrence:
How was Peter speaking to Simon the sorcerer or Paul to Elymas? These were wicked men the apostles were dealing with, not brothers. Your argument tells us you don't know the difference or what to do if you knew the difference.
Which would you prefer to be done to you for wickedness - hear Martin's words or be hewed to death by the sword as Agag was by Samuel? Be honest, now.
Which would you prefer, honestly, to hear Martin's words to you as spoken to Carl, or be slaughtered as were the 450 prophets of Baal by Elijah, who first mocked them and made an open show of them in the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ Who confirmed His Presence and Power by consuming Elijah's sacrifice?
Would you prefer to be eating a boiled son in a siege or to be sharply rebuked as a fool as Martin rebuked Carl?
If you think Martin was out of turn, surely you must also condemn Jesus for His Words to the wicked in Matthew 23 and John in Luke 3. How can you escape the parallels?
As for mercy shown, what does God say? What did God do with the Pharaoh?
Romans 9:13-18 MKJV
(13) As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
(14) What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!
(15) For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
(16) So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.
(17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My Name might be declared throughout all the earth."
(18) Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens.
And where were you with Carl's vile accusations? Do you choose to exercise unwarranted authority over a believer and elder who speaks true things, even if they are hard, instead of addressing the evil accusations of a devil calling himself a brother in Christ, and whom YOU call a "brother," while he denounces us as having nothing to do with God because we rebuke his foolishness or because of the way we do so?
To you I give these words of the Lord:
Matthew 23:32-36 EMTV
(32) And you, fill up then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.
(33) Serpents! Brood of vipers! How shall you escape from the condemnation of hell?
(34) Therefore, behold, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and you will crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and you will persecute from city to city,
(35) so that on you may come all the righteous blood being shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
(36) Assuredly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
Perhaps the Lord should have been "peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others... full of mercy and good deeds... showing no favoritism and... always sincere"? You and Carl are two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned.
Let the Lord show me differently. I grow weary of dealing "nicely" with phony believers like you who vaunt themselves wherever they find opportunity and whenever they think to do God service. God is finished winking. Your Day of Judgment has arrived.
Will you repent? No. Guys like you don't have it because your hearts are hardened and your consciences seared; you're unable to endure the Truth. For those who care to know and understand, read http://www.thepathoftruth.com/the-issue ... -words.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Jude Scriptures you quote don't pertain to unbelievers but to believers. You begin by referring to "corrupt flesh." There is no other kind; it may be a poor choice of words on your part which obscures the intent of your message, fine, but all flesh is corrupt and none is incorrupt, period.
Believers can be "spotted by the flesh" because they also have a spirit in Christ while the wicked are ALL flesh and totally removed from the Lord. Carl is such a person. He has words and doctrine; he has a form of godliness (though questionable) but he is in all corruption, denying the Power Thereof, even as Paul, Martin, and I have declared in so many words. The man is a prating fool.
So your rebuke indicates little difference in spirit and presumption between you and Carl Jones. If you aren't a part of our fellowship, it won't much matter to you what is said to anyone here, but if you presume to be a member of our body, you are out of line even if Martin IS wrong, which he isn't, for Paul warns to not rebuke an elder but to entreat him as a father (1 Timothy 5:1). Nobody has appointed you an elder in our community, not any man or group of men and certainly not God.
Martin may not be your elder physically, but the "flesh profits nothing," so you aren't to despise his youth as a spiritual elder; I don't care HOW old you are.
"Vile words"? Look to yourself, "sir."
Our Forum will recognize our fellowship and the Law of God applied before it will recognize the assumed free-for-all for anyone attending. That said, if the Lord happens to bring an outsider in to correct us, well and good, but you aren't such a man. I know this by our Head, Jesus Christ.
Questions for you, Lawrence:
How was Peter speaking to Simon the sorcerer or Paul to Elymas? These were wicked men the apostles were dealing with, not brothers. Your argument tells us you don't know the difference or what to do if you knew the difference.
Which would you prefer to be done to you for wickedness - hear Martin's words or be hewed to death by the sword as Agag was by Samuel? Be honest, now.
Which would you prefer, honestly, to hear Martin's words to you as spoken to Carl, or be slaughtered as were the 450 prophets of Baal by Elijah, who first mocked them and made an open show of them in the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ Who confirmed His Presence and Power by consuming Elijah's sacrifice?
Would you prefer to be eating a boiled son in a siege or to be sharply rebuked as a fool as Martin rebuked Carl?
If you think Martin was out of turn, surely you must also condemn Jesus for His Words to the wicked in Matthew 23 and John in Luke 3. How can you escape the parallels?
As for mercy shown, what does God say? What did God do with the Pharaoh?
Romans 9:13-18 MKJV
(13) As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
(14) What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!
(15) For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
(16) So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.
(17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My Name might be declared throughout all the earth."
(18) Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens.
And where were you with Carl's vile accusations? Do you choose to exercise unwarranted authority over a believer and elder who speaks true things, even if they are hard, instead of addressing the evil accusations of a devil calling himself a brother in Christ, and whom YOU call a "brother," while he denounces us as having nothing to do with God because we rebuke his foolishness or because of the way we do so?
To you I give these words of the Lord:
Matthew 23:32-36 EMTV
(32) And you, fill up then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.
(33) Serpents! Brood of vipers! How shall you escape from the condemnation of hell?
(34) Therefore, behold, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and you will crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and you will persecute from city to city,
(35) so that on you may come all the righteous blood being shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
(36) Assuredly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.
Perhaps the Lord should have been "peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others... full of mercy and good deeds... showing no favoritism and... always sincere"? You and Carl are two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned.
Let the Lord show me differently. I grow weary of dealing "nicely" with phony believers like you who vaunt themselves wherever they find opportunity and whenever they think to do God service. God is finished winking. Your Day of Judgment has arrived.
Will you repent? No. Guys like you don't have it because your hearts are hardened and your consciences seared; you're unable to endure the Truth. For those who care to know and understand, read http://www.thepathoftruth.com/the-issue ... -words.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
Carl Jones
Re: Is the Earth Flat?
Victor Hafichuk, I suspect you might be totally demon possessed. And you're a fool to believe you'll end up in Heaven. I suspect those demons were living inside you when you were catholic, and never left. Anything you or your deceived followers have to say to me mean NOTHING because I am washed in the blood of Jesus, although you call me a "child of Hell". Satan is LAUGHING at you! Oh, but you don't believe in Hell? You will.