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The Judgment of Marina Carnat • The Path of Truth Forum

The Judgment of Marina Carnat

"Don’t judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” (John 7:24)

The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Paul Cohen » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:35 pm



A Moldovan woman who began writing and meeting with us in 2012, later on translating some of our writings into Romanian and Russian, recently posed the following question to us:

From: Marina Carnat
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 9:19 AM
To: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Paul Cohen'
Subject: on receiving Holy Spirit

Sabbath Peace Victor and Paul,

I have a question which was coming and going several times since I came to TPOT and now I received it is the time to ask you: why I don’t receive the Holy Spirit?

Thank you for quick answer,

Marina



From: Paul Cohen
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 1:48 AM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

Hi Marina; Sabbath peace to you!

Are you asking us, “Why shouldn’t I receive God’s Spirit now?” or “Why haven’t I received God’s Spirit yet?”

Tell us what you’re thinking and where you’re at with the Lord and the things you’ve learned of Him. I feel like we’ve fallen out of touch somewhat and would like to hear more from you.

Paul


From: Marina Carnat
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 12:44 AM
To: 'Paul Cohen'; 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

Sabbath peace to you too, Paul,

My question is: why haven’t I received God’s Spirit yet?

I am with the Lord and He is with me in all the things. I confessed and repented of my sins, I am not bounded of any sin I am aware of, I pray and read His word, I ask Him to give me His Spirit, but I don’t receive it. Why?

Marina



From: Paul Cohen
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

Why do you want to receive God’s Spirit, Marina? Is His Spirit an “it”? And do you see anything different between your situation and Cornelius’, when he was baptized in the Spirit?

Paul


From: Marina Carnat
Sent: November-14-15 12:11 PM
To: 'Paul Cohen'; 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

I want to take time-out. Please, erase my name from all the translated articles from TPOT. Also, you can erase my email address from the list. Thanks!

Marina



From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:29 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

Marina, this is a rather unpleasant surprise! What brought this on? What have we done? Have we sinned against you that you should suddenly cut us off?

\/


From: Marina Carnat
Sent: November-14-15 12:48 PM
To: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

I’ve been in a tighter relationship with the Lord for the last month, it came together with the Bible reading meetings. I was asking for confirmation and the Lord finally gave it to me, that it why I decided to leave the group TPOT. I don’t want to go into details, because the discussion will not end.

Thank you for everything and please forgive me if anything…I don’t wait for any answer from you. Please, take into account my earlier request on erasing my name.

Marina



From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: November-14-15 1:01 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Cc: 'Marilyn Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

We will most certainly give you as requested, Lord willing. However, I would like to ask you a question: Were we ungodly in our Bible reading meetings? Is there something you should speak to your brothers and sisters about if you have something against them? Isn’t that what the Lord instructs those who are His to do? So why wouldn’t you do it if you are in the right?

For our part, we follow this instruction of the Lord now in this situation:

“Therefore if you offer your gift on the altar, and there remember that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift” (Matthew 5:23-24 MKJV).

Will you answer, Marina?

\/


From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 10:06 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Cc: 'Marilyn Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

These are the verses I was referring to, Marina, for your sake and the Lord’s:

Matthew 18:15-17 MKJV
(15) But if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
(16) But if he will not hear you, take one or two more with you, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
(17) And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector.


\/


From: Marina Carnat
Sent: November-14-15 1:21 PM
To: 'Victor Hafichuk'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Cc: 'Marilyn Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

You didn’t sin against me, nor those in the meetings…No! It has nothing to do with the meetings… I am writing fast and perhaps I cannot express well, as when I called His Spirit an `it`…The idea is that my closer relationship with Him came together with those meetings, I was reading the Bible and began reading more the Word by myself, not only a verse but the whole chapters to see the context. I’ve been in profound prayer… then Marilyn’s silence on not answering Lynn’s question since long ago (as if she didn’t see the question), and then your recent evasive answer for her… and then by continuing reading, I received that I should have His Spirit as it is written in Romans 8:1-11. Then I had the confirmation from the Lord with Paul’s answer.

There are many things that Lord showed me during all this time since I’ve been with you (3 and a half years) and I would have to say more, but it is unnecessary for now, as it is MY relationship with Him, my life for Him and not yours.

Marina



From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: November-14-15 1:30 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Cc: 'Marilyn Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

So you ARE faulting us, Marina, without speaking it forth to us and then to others, should we not comply. The fact is, neither Marilyn nor I were reluctant to answer that question. It just didn’t happen, but we can and will answer for all today, in our present meeting. Are you interested? You can come to the meeting. But consider that you are faulting us; I don’t see how you aren’t. But are you prepared to hear us out or have you simply decided to write us off, after all?

Not that I believe our answering the question about Marilyn and Sean will do anything for you. I see the problem is much bigger than that.

\/


From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: November-14-15 1:52 PM
To: 'Marina Carnat'; 'Paul Cohen'; 'Sara Schmidt'
Cc: 'Marilyn Hafichuk'; 'Martin Van Popta'
Subject: RE: on receiving Holy Spirit

Be honest and face it, Marina: You have judged and faulted us, accusing us of deliberate deception/evasion, have you not?

...then Marilyn’s silence on not answering Lynn’s question since long ago (as if she didn’t see the question), and then your recent evasive answer for her….

Your suspicion and accusation is not of God; it is false. Will you confess so or will you conclude we are liars?

\/


Marina hasn’t answered, but continued to write to Sara about the website:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: on my name
From: Marina Carnat
To: 'Sara Schmidt'
Date: 11/15/2015 2:00 PM

[22:56:09] Marina: Hi Sara, I see you banned me in the forum, very well, thanks, but please hurry to delete my name in all the articles translated, because I cannot subsribe to them anymore. Thanks!

[22:59:02] Marina: and yesterday I deleted all my messages from the forum, why did you put them back?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: thanks
From: Marina Carnat
To: 'Sara Schmidt'
Date: 11/16/2015 8:32 AM

So, you think it is OK to not answer and ignore? Alright!
Thanks anyway for taking my name off, but I have one last request. If you put back my messages in the forum and banned me, at least change my name in there without my last name. I don’t agree with many statements I had. I ask you this at least for the past period when I was fed at TPOT.

Thanks again!



From: Marina Carnat
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:29 PM
To: 'Sara Schmidt'
Subject: ??

Do you hear me, Sara? Where is all the ‘submissive and Lord fearing woman’ in what and how you act towards me?


From: Marina Carnat
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2015 10:38 PM
To: 'Sara Schmidt'
Subject: FW: ??

Will you ignore me forever, Sara?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject:
From: Marina Carnat
To: 'Sara Schmidt'
Date: 11/18/2015 10:13 AM

Just how much time do you need just to ERASE my last name CARNAT? Is it so hard? Never mind my messages if you think they are important in making YOUR group more prestigious.


Paul here:

I’ve included the letters to Sara to show what we’re dealing with here. Marina won’t answer my or Victor’s questions, posed for goodness’ sake, yet she’ll fault Sara for not emailing her on a minor matter regarding which Sara is following our instructions. So we’re dealing with a spirit of rebellion, a witch, one given over to devils and Satan himself. She demands submission from someone she has no right to demand it of, even if Marina was submissive with us, which she isn’t, which makes her the consummate contradictory hypocrite.

My question about the difference between Marina’s situation and Cornelius’ had to do with the humility of the latter, and how he was instructed by God Who led him to listen to His servant Peter. The Body of Christ is involved in ministering to the called and chosen, but the independent ones separate themselves from other believers, seeking a salvation separate from His Body.

Jude 1:17-19 MKJV
(17) But you, beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(18) because they told you that at the last time there will be mockers according to their lusts, leading ungodly lives.
(19) These are those setting themselves apart, animal-like ones, not having the Spirit.

Therefore these mockers receive from whence they look – beneath. The Lord won’t cohabitate with a witch, though Satan will, because he savors the things of man. But the Lord and His people don’t suffer a witch to live.

If Marina has anything to say, she may do so here. Lord willing, we will post and answer.

As for Marina’s previous postings on the forum, we banned her because she was removing them. We’ve reinstituted those postings to keep the conversations intact and as a testimony against her wicked rebellion and despising of God’s goodness, as with the sons of Korah:

“The fire-pans of these sinners against their own souls, let them make them into broad plates, a covering for the altar; for they offered them before the LORD, therefore they are made holy. And they shall be a sign to the sons of Israel” (Numbers 16:38 MKJV).

Paul
Paul Cohen
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:12 pm



Hi

I've been attending Sabbath meetings and reading from TPOT's Website for around four or four-and-a-half years.

I confess here, now, before everyone and the Lord, there have been times when I reached conclusions about all the negative writings from other strangers. I couldn't take all the negative responses from people...all the blame... the wickedness from some people who wrote in. There is so much horrible wickedness, daily, every minute on TV, in the newspapers and on radio and I was feeling awkward/sad/depressed/miserable and I thought to myself, why must I read all the negative stuff coming from the Lord's Website as well as all the horrors of the world around me, day and night?

I thought of the few people I "met" at TPOT: Carol, Joyce, Jason, Jeff, the Bensons, no longer with us and now, Marina? I then began feeling that I'm not fit to belong to TPOT's people as after I red that my Dad and many of my family members (and me) had/have demons living in us, because of schizophrenia and depression - I was floored and devastated! I absolutely couldn't comprehend or get it around my head that my loving, kind, dear father on earth was filled with demons. I still can't come to terms with it. Both my husband (Arthur) and I have been chastised by Victor in very strong words from him. Oh, yes, of course, the fleshly I-feel-so-sorry-for-myself "feelings" came to play and I couldn't believe that we, Arthur, me, my family were wicked and demon-possessed - then - when reading about Marilyn and Victor's situation - I wondered, actually, how bad we all are, really and where we belong, on this earth?

I confessed about my smoking weakness and very simply asked Victor and the group to pray for me that the Lord gives me strength to overcome this. It was at this time that Victor flew off at me. And yet, here comes Rachel, a new lady to the group, who also has/had the weakness of nicotine and there was Victor, offering up the most endearing, encouraging words to her. I became confused and that's when I started thinking I don't belong - although I want to belong!

When discussing my marriage/husband (of 42 years) at a recent Sabbath meeting, I found it quite astonishing that a young man (Martin) who's been married for (I think nine years?) starts ranting at me about how I DO worship my husband, and then offering up his interpretation (or was it the Lord's) of my worshiping my husband etc. Anyway, I took it all in and my "feelings" about that have also passed, now.

As the Sabbath meetings now take place at 9pm (SA time) I'm hoping that I'll be awake to attend. I wasn't awake, last Saturday. I've just turned 66, I work all day, every day and when Saturday night comes around, I'm tired and get to bed early. I'm not looking for excuses - this is my life, now.

I hadn't smoked for a month, and this morning, I broke into uncontrollable sobs and... what did I do? Yes... I grabbed a cigarette! Are these demons taking over my life?

That's why I'm asking, specifically, Victor and Paul, do I belong with all of you? Are you of the opinion that I'm wasting your time and spitting in God's face? Do I belong to the Lord? Does He have plans for me at TPOT? I don't want to be a wicked witch, possessed of demons and "thrown out." I know there are no churches on this earth where I would attend - ever!

Beryl
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Victor Hafichuk » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:31 pm



Beryl, I can't always explain why I say or do the things I say or do. What I CAN say is that the Lord knows the heart and its need. I look to the Lord to speak and do as He wills and am willing to change on anything should He require it.

You've been with us all this time and the Lord has seen fit to have you here till now. Shouldn't His judgment be sufficient?

Carol determined to keep her gods. Joyce wouldn't come clean with her sin, determining to display her own righteousness. Jeff refuses to get honest and confess. The wicked Bensons were exposed by the Lord in His perfect time and way, as with Dena. So they're gone. We've seen deliberate deception with all these, which makes them liars and children of the serpent. Right or wrong, I don't have any hope for them in this life.

Jason must go through his fires, having formerly chosen his vices despite our rebukes, instruction and urgent warnings, but I don't know that he has worked to deceive as have the others. We have an understanding and Lord willing, we'll see him again.

I don't see or believe you've ever played games with us, deliberately deceiving. You aren't gone because the Lord has kept you here, and not we. Yes, you have your faults as do we all, but you're here, and on my part, certainly welcome to abide with us.

I'm thankful for you and for your husband, for what it's worth, particularly perhaps because you report he has at times encouraged you to attend the meetings. I'm hoping better things for both of you.

Beryl, have you never red:

"A thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; it shall not come near you" (Psalms 91:7 MKJV)?

It happens; it happens throughout Scripture and it happens with us. That's the way it is. Do we quit? If we're depending on our own goodness, we may as well quit because no matter how much or well we exercise our "goodness," it's of no avail to God. We can only depend on His grace. Many are called but few chosen.

As for Marina, I don't know what she was expecting of us, but obviously, we didn't deliver. So she has decided another way. So be it.

You've been trusting in your own righteousness and have had erroneous notions about what it means to be a believer. Lord willing, you'll be purged of those things and come to truly love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

We've seen changes for the better with you and hope to see more. Put your trust in the Lord, Who laid down His life for you. I never did see improvement with most of, if any of, the others, unless some temporarily with Jeff as much as he obeyed until he backslid and threw everything away. We'll see what gives with Jason.

Put away your smokes; get up and at it again; wait on the Lord's judgment; look to Him. Trust that whatever He decides is just and good for all concerned.
Victor Hafichuk
 
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:07 am

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Eric Courtemanche » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:21 pm



Beryl,

I know since I've remained with those that are His, that He wants me here. If He didn't want me here, He'd leave me to my own evilness, and that alone would cause enough division to make me leave.

I've not seen anything deliberate on your part against those of us here.

The circumstances for each and every one of us are different. God saves each one of us as individuals, and to each one of us that's going to look different as we see it happen to others. Yet, it's not about appearances which He's taught me can be quite deceiving.

So be thankful when someone receives His Spirit. Be thankful when some leave, be thankful when others come, in general be as thankful for what happens to others as you need to be for what happens to you.

Eric C.
Eric Courtemanche
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 am
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Rachel Gerrard » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:30 pm



Hi Beryl. I couldn't disagree more that you got chastised more than me over smoking, and you have not seen all of the email exchanges between Victor, Paul and I. I felt I got a really, really harsh rebuke on that occasion and I threw my toys out of the pram and was very angry at the Lord. You have handled it with a LOT more dignity than I did.

And here is something really interesting: When you confessed the other week in the meeting you had been smoking my first thought was "If I had said that they would have come down on me like a ton of bricks!" So perception could be an issue?

But have you thought that maybe I was shown more leniency because I was new to TPOT and regarded as blind? Rejoice that He has given you to receive harsh rebuke and not faint!

They were talking about the parable of the talents on the conference call the other day and it really struck a chord: How we are all given our own measure of things, and I think this must include judgment. I was reading Victor's theo-auto last night and he heard from the Lord "if you eat that ice cream bar you will end up obese again" (I paraphrase). I thought, wow that is harsh judgment over one ice cream bar! But then I thought, actually it depends on what the person has already received from the Lord as to how severe the judgment needs to be. Victor had already received enough faith not to eat the ice cream bar, but he still ate it. Like with my smoking and going out cavorting with unbelievers, it was well within my grasp not to do these things but as I did them anyway, I needed to be dealt with in a way that would really get my attention (again I know I am using crude language). I still don't understand some of the things that were said to me but the right things have happened one way or another - I am not doing these things anymore.

Victor also reminded me that whatever stern words were coming my way through God's servants, those words are in answer to my very own prayers anyway! I hope I haven't spoken out of turn at any time to you Beryl and I hope none of that sounded disrespectful, as I definitely respect you as my elder, spiritually and physically.
Rachel Gerrard
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Terri Cabreros » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:26 pm



Hi Beryl!
I would like to add my two cents in here...hope you don't mind.

If you were to go back to when the Sabbath Meetings started and read through them till present, you will see that there has been a few of us who have gotten some very hard rebuke/correction from the Lord through Victor and Paul...I being one of them on several different occasions, whether through the meetings or e-mails.
At the time, it was hard to swallow, but very necessary for which I was and am very thankful for.
I have also been not that long ago where I was deceitful and received the hardest rebuke/correction thus far so you can't imagine how thankful I am that I am still here...that the Lord has not see fit to cast me off and I HOPE it will never come to that.

There were times throughout the years that I have seen some get severe correction and rebuke and others seemed to get "let off easy" but in the end, I came to realize, know and accept that the Lord knows what we need more than we do...so who am I to say who gets what and how much.

Be thankful the Lord is correcting us with whatever measure He sees fit...it's better than no correction (that's when you need to worry).

I quit smoking in 2005 only to go back to it after my sister's death in 2010. It then became a real struggle...back and forth and I finally came to realize that my "trigger" was whenever I got stressed out. Then I really realized that if I trust the Lord, why would I get stressed out...if I truly know that all is in His hands, then I need to thank Him and wait on Him. It was unbelief no doubt. Easier said then done but instead of stressing, we need to come to that place of acceptance for all the bad (situations/experiences/day to day struggles and yucks that happen) and thank Him for it as well as for the good!

Hope this helps (and makes sense).
The Lord bless you and keep you, Beryl!

Terri
Last edited by Terri Cabreros on Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Terri Cabreros
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:15 am



Hullo Victor and everyone here,

Thank you ALL for your input/advice and explanations of your own struggles - I take no offence, at all to whatever has been said. Thank you also, for reading about my "tales of woe!" I do feel quite selfish even having said the things I said. Thank you Rachel and Terri and Eric for the wisdom you've received from God and for sharing that wisdom with me.

I hope to stay with and continue with all of you - God Willing. Amen!

Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby William Woeger » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:54 am



I don't think you were being selfish, Beryl. I appreciate your honesty and 'pouring your heart out' so to speak. I found it encouraging even. And I think it's important.

Afterall, some of those who left were just the opposite of being open and honest. Not to condemn them, but just to point that out.
William Woeger
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Terri Cabreros » Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:59 am



Amen Eric C, Rachel & William!
Keep on keeping on, Beryl!
Terri Cabreros
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:01 pm



Thank you William and Terri - I do appreciate your thoughts and your replies and I thank you!

Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Rachel Gerrard » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 am



I am also reminded of Matthew 5:29 - "'But, if thy right eye doth cause thee to stumble, pluck it out and cast from thee, for it is good to thee that one of thy members may perish, and not thy whole body be cast to gehenna."

It is better that our pride egos are smashed (losing one of our members) leaving us feeling all hurt and humiliated if the result is that we stop sinning! (Speaking to myself here more than anyone)
Rachel Gerrard
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Diana Laumbach » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:09 am



Hi Beryl,

I appreciate what you had to share and what others had to say. I understand your fears Beryl but you need to look to and trust the Lord. Now you may think that is so easy for me or any at the tpot to say "you need to look to and trust the Lord," but it is the truth Beryl and I too have been told the same exact thing before myself by Victor. The Lord is the way, the truth and the life! That's why we have to look to Him for all things!

Beryl you said: "That's why I'm asking, specifically, Victor and Paul, do I belong with all of you?"

It is not about belonging with all of us Beryl. Understand that all that matters is the will of the Lord and He is Lord and in control and we look to Him for what is needed. It is not about belonging but about trusting and obeying the Lord. Those who belong to the Lord are His and nothing can take them from Him.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (John 10:27-29)

Beryl you said: "Are you of the opinion that I'm wasting your time and spitting in God's face?"

We don't seek our own opinions Beryl we have to ask the Lord and wait on Him in all matters. Opinions are not of the Lord. You may have read the paper at tpot on opinions but it would be good for you to read it again, I find it very helpful when I go back and read writings that I have already read. The reminders are always great!

Beryl you said: "Do I belong to the Lord?"

Why do you think the Lord brought you to the path of truth? Again you need to look to the Lord and trust Him.

Beryl you said: "Does He have plans for me at TPOT?"

Victor has already shared here in this forum post and before how the Lord has had you here and hasn't left you even in your struggles Beryl the Lord has been with you. Believe Him!

" For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." (Jeremiah 29:11)

Beryl you said: " I don't want to be a wicked witch, possessed of demons and thrown out."

Beryl know that the Lord, He is Lord! Don't be in fear of evil and its consequences but ask the Lord that He may grant you to repent of yourself and turn to Him and fear Him as Lord! Believe Him! He is the way the, the truth and the life!

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

It is not about me, Victor, Paul and others who are His but it is all about the Lord our Father and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. "He must increase, but I must decrease." (John 3:30)

It is about obeying Him and His commandments. Jesus replied,"If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.(John 14:23)

Diana
Diana Laumbach
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Diana Laumbach » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:29 am



Hi Beryl,

I should be sleeping but I am up late or should I say early. I been reading at topt and one writing I read is "God is Finished Winking" it is the first time I read it and it made me think of this whole situation with Marina and others. It is the reality! I am thankful for the truth given in this writing and others. I hope you will read it Beryl and others at tpot and the forum.

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/the-issue ... inking.htm
Diana Laumbach
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:15 am



Hullo Diana,

I hear and understand everything you say. Thank you for taking the time to reply and thank you for your words of endurance and encouragement. I do, honestly, appreciate them. Most and more importantly, I thank and trust the Lord Jesus Christ in all things.

Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Paul Cohen » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:56 am



Beryl has asked me to post a letter Marina sent her after she red Beryl's first post (Nov. 18th) on this thread:

On 18 Nov 2015 22:25, "Marina Carnat" <marinacarnat@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Beryl!

You know that from all in the group, only with you I had a private conversation and Joyce...and that's it! Victor, Paul and Sara, won't count of course. This is why I just read what you've written and I hear YOU! I want to tell you that i began praying, reading the Bible by MYSELF and reading the whole chapters, not just extracting from the context the verses V and P are highlighting! And therefore, I advise you to read by yourself, take a time-out. I said I want a time-out, but seeing how they act towards me after everything and how they twist the truth, because they didn't put the whole conversation in the forum and didn't allow me to write in the forum, they banned me...so Beryl I tell you that I will NEVER return and I realize how urgently I needed to reach out of this group. Let the Lord judge!

Start reading with 1 Cor. 15, the whole chapter, and may the Lord have mercy!

Marina
Paul Cohen
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:02 am



Hi Paul, thanks for posting the letter. I found it on my phone - eventually, now-now, but thanks. Here's my reply to Marina:

Hullo Marina,

I’m sorry I’ve taken so long to reply to your mail. I received your mail on my “Tablet” and I’ve stopped that contract but I did see it on my small phone, which is difficult to type from.

Marina, I can tell you, honestly and openly that I have had many questions, doubts and misunderstandings and confusion from Victor and Paul. But, at the end of the day, I know within my heart and my mind that what they do teach and preach is from the Lord, no matter, sometimes, how difficult it might be to accept. I have been rebuked on a few occasions for my disbelief and my lack of faith. I have accepted this rebuke and didn’t argue against it. There are things which I’m absolutely unable to comprehend and the worst was that my Dad and many of my family members were laden with demons because of their schizophrenia and depression. This, out of everything I’ve been rebuked for – floored me the most! I’m over it, now and I know that everything is in the Lord’s Hands.

Marina, I can say, in my home I have approximately 20 different Bible versions and an entire library of “Christian” books. I have Commentaries, Strong’s Concordance, Hebrew/Greek writings and I could go on and on. However, none of them, led me to the Lord and I haven’t been fed from any of those books. I am a loner, by nature and I’m not a very social person – I prefer being on my own and “doing my own thing.” Then again, when I read: Hebrews 10:25 “And we should not be forsaking our meetings, as is the custom for each person, but plead with one another all the more, as long as you see that day drawing near” (Aramaic Bible English Version) I feel within myself that God is leading me to meet with other believers. I have not been to any church since 1996 (and, believe me, I’ve been to many, in the past). I am an undisciplined person and I become disciplined when I meet with other believers. I wish you would reconsider your stance, Marina? Let’s be honest, NEVER, is quite a strong word and most times in our lives, we don’t know what the next day will bring – or, the next hour, in fact!

I must admit, I can’t remember the private conversation we had, together… if you like, you can remind me? I sincerely don’t know whether “time-out” will help me or draw me any closer to God – I just don’t know that. As you know, we receive so much and so many mails that it’s just impossible to remember everything that’s been written. Therefore, I can’t believe that TPOT would BAN you? This sounds really harsh? I don’t believe you were actually rude to anyone? Were you? 2 Tim.2:24 “A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people.” I believe Paul and Victor are servants of the Lord and most times, their rebukes are, actually, kindness, for our own sakes – wouldn’t you agree? Or, am I misinterpreting this verse?

I have red your suggested Scripture 1 Cor.15 and with me, I have always been misled by the word “death.” I wasn’t aware that the word “death” in Scripture, in most cases, doesn’t mean that we die bodily/physically and take our last breath, it means something spiritual, that we die “to our old selves.” In 1 Cor.15:58 this is the conclusion of everything: “Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labour in the Lord is not in vain.”

I thank you, again, Marina, for contacting me personally and I would ask that you keep in touch. I pray for you that our Lord and Saviour bless and keep you and move you to do what it is He requires of you.

Blessings to you!
Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Paul Cohen » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:49 pm



Email replies to Beryl on her correspondence with Marina:

From: Paul Cohen
Sent: November-25-15 7:14 AM
To: 'Beckie Knight'; 'Victor Hafichuk'
Subject: RE: hi!

Hi Beryl,

So when Marina refers to what you’ve written she’s talking about your post on the forum, where you wrote about your doubts and struggles, correct? Her email comes on the heels of that post and I know of nothing else that you’ve written. I see her trying to take advantage of your perceived weakness, urging you to cave in to your doubts and fears.

That’s satanic, which comes naturally to a liar. We didn’t ban Marina or edit out substantive material from the Forum. We rejected one post from her that was repeating the same irrelevant things, with her continuing to refuse to answer the reasonable questions Victor had asked and to address the matters at hand. I think you can understand, Beryl, that she is in no position to dictate terms, but that’s what people do when they serve as their own god.

Paul

From: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 9:49 AM
To: 'Paul Cohen'; 'Beckie Knight'
Subject: RE: hi!

Hi Beryl,

A few points here. As Paul has said, Marina has refused to answer my questions as to what it was we had done or how we had sinned against her. She even initially denied we had sinned; we have it on record.

While she tried to make it look like she was just taking time out for herself it soon became clear there was a negative motivation. We wouldn’t have objected to taking time out in principle, except that we were concerned it could be the influence of the enemy, which we now see it is so.

Marina refused to give any explanation of her decision to part with us. She hasn’t told us how we err or how we “extract” verses and twist the meaning of Scripture. She only accuses us. Why won’t she show us how we err?

I’d be willing to let her clearly state her case on the forum. Let her prepare it and we will consider. So far, she has given nothing of substance or reason; she merely accuses and condemns, without substance. I’d even be willing to let her post that, as well, and let others judge as to whether her case is legitimate or not. So far, I’m finding she’s turned to being an open bitter liar and hypocrite. I see in her now the Muslim spirit rising up again, if even in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Still, if she is willing to accuse us of cutting off her responses and omitting certain relevant and justified portions of correspondence, let her again state what it is she thinks others should hear and we will consider posting it. You can tell her that.

She suggests you read 1 Cor. 15. What is one to do with that? How does she think our doctrine is in opposition to that passage of Scripture? She doesn’t say. However, let’s take one excerpt from that chapter (something apparently it’s possible she’ll fault us for) and see how we were concerned and tried to reason with her in case someone was evilly influencing her:

“Do not be deceived; evil companionships corrupt good habits. Be righteously awake, and sin not; for some have ignorance of God. I speak this to your shame” (1 Corinthians 15:33-34 MKJV).

\/
Paul Cohen
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:01 pm



Hi Paul and Victor

Peaceful and good Sabbath.

Paul, you said: "[i]So when Marina refers to what you’ve written she’s talking about your post on the forum, where you wrote about your doubts and struggles, correct[/i]?"

Yes, Paul, that's correct. I have had no other communication from Marina. In her mail to me she said that she corresponded with me. I told her I cannot remember and if she wants to, she can re-send to remind me. I haven't heard.

I detected great anger, bitterness and verbal violence in Marina's comments - especially to Sara - "demanding" Sara's response and accusing you both of twisting the Scriptures?

Yes, I feel, although she was "being nice" to me and saying she "understands" I knew and I know she was wanting me to leave TPOT and "hang out" with her, against everyone - so to speak. Well, as you've seen from my response to Marina's mail, I hold no hope that she will return - as she herself has said she would NEVER return to TPOT.

Yes, Victor, I found it quite odd that she would advise me to read (the whole of) 1 Cor.15 which I've done more times than I can remember and that's why I quoted the verses to her: 1 Cor.15:58 "Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain"

And I quoted to Marina: Hebrews 10:25 and 2 Tim.2:24.

To Victor and Paul, you have always shown integrity, dignity and sound speech and I see Marina as the opponent, : Titus 2:7-8 “Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame...” Amen!

Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 

Re: The Judgment of Marina Carnat

Postby Beryl Knipe » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:10 pm



Hi again, Victor and Paul,

I've searched and I have found correspondence from Marina to me - dated 20th June 2013 where she wrote that she wanted to know more about me and that my English is good. I did correspond with her at that time, explaining a few bits of who I am, where I live, my age etc.

Beryl.
Beryl Knipe
 


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