A site reader asked us:
Question on this scripture:
Mark 13:32 NIV
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
These are Jesus’ own words. Based on the website, you assert there is only one person of God, not the 1-in-3 trinity concept.
My question is: How is it that Jesus doesn’t know the day or the hour of His return but the Father does, per Jesus’ own words?
Similarly, why did Jesus pray to the Father if Jesus & the Father are in fact the same person?
thanks & best regards,
The Scripture you refer to is: “But of that day and hour no one knows, no, not the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but the Father” (Mark 13:32 MKJV).
How is it, you ask, that the Son didn’t know the hour, yet He was God in the flesh?
Consider the context. What was Jesus talking about? He had just told the disciples the Temple of God was going to be destroyed. This would be a very momentous event for Israel, to say the least. The disciples were naturally shook up and asked the Lord when this event would happen.
Jesus didn’t give a date, such as the year 70 AD (as we call it now), because He didn’t know the exact date. As God humbling Himself to the form of a man, Jesus didn’t have that kind of knowledge. But neither was that knowledge meant for men, because we (as with the Lord in His flesh) are called to walk by faith, not by sight.
Jesus gave the disciples spiritual understanding of the signs preceding the fall of the Temple and Israel, which they needed to know and watch for by faith:
“And learn the parable of the fig-tree: when her branch is still tender and puts out leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, at the doors” (Mark 13:28-29 MKJV).
Those who believed and did as the Lord told them would be saved, but those who didn’t would be lost. Had God given them a date, they could have set their watches and showed up at the right time, no faith required. But that’s not the way God works (for our sake). As Jesus said:
“Then you watch, for you do not know when the lord of the house is coming, at evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or early; lest he come suddenly and find you sleeping. And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch” (Mark 13:35-37 MKJV).
What you need to know is that Jesus served as our model for what we would become as sons of God, if we believed and obeyed Him. Since no man was ever perfect and without sin, it was only God Who could fulfill the role as Mediator between man and Himself, bringing us the power by His cross to enter life and be formed in His image. This He does through Christ.
“And He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. Therefore His Own arm brought salvation to Him; and His righteousness sustained Him” (Isaiah 59:16 MKJV).
“You are My witnesses, says the Lord, and My servant whom I have taken for Myself: so that you may see and have faith in Me, and that it may be clear to you that I am He; before Me there was no God formed, and there will not be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no Savior but Me” (Isaiah 43:10-11 BBE).
So when we see Jesus praying to the Father, it isn’t a strange thing at all, but exactly what God would do and did as a man, serving as the Firstborn of many brethren who would do the same by His Spirit. How else could we pray to God as we ought?
“Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints” (Ephesians 6:18 KJV).
“Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God” (Romans 8:26-27 MKJV).
If you think it strange that Jesus, the Head, prayed to the Father, you should also think it strange that the Body prays to the Head. The saints’ prayers are inspired of God. Isn’t that also God or Jesus Christ praying to Himself, in a manner of speaking?
Isn’t it by His Presence that we’re able to do His will?
“For it is God Who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13 MKJV).
Our writings also answer your questions, Eric, but I’m glad to have answered you here, because I’ve had some new things to say that may help not only you, but also others. To round things out, here are some appropriate portions Sara retrieved from a few of our writings:
A portion answering the matter concerning Mark 13: “How is it that Jesus doesn’t know the day or the hour of His return but the Father does, per Jesus’ own words?”
From the Tom Burgee blog war (The Wisdom of God Trumps Trinitarian Tricksterism):
“We can identify the Father, for example, as the One who knows the day and the hour (Mt 24:36) and the Son as the ransom for many (Mk 10:45) and the Holy Spirit as the seal of our salvation (Eph 1:13; 4:30).”
You’re quite mistaken about the Son not knowing the day and hour, a restriction He only had while in the flesh. He is no longer so straitened, praise God. Jesus Christ knows everything, because He has returned to the Father as Omnipotent God:
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, ‘All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth’” (Matthew 28:18 MKJV).
“And I heard as the sound of a great multitude, and as the sound of many waters, and as the sound of strong thunders, saying, ‘Hallelujah! For the Lord God omnipotent reigns!’” (Revelation 19:6 MKJV)
The Son knows when He comes because He’s in full control, exercising His authority over all:
“Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you” (Revelation 3:3 MKJV).
“Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with Me, to repay to each man according to his work” (Revelation 22:12 HNV).
As for our ransom, the Father is the One Who gave Himself for us. He says so:
“Yet I am the LORD your God from the land of Egypt, and you shall know no God but Me. For there is no Savior besides Me…. I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. O Death, where are your plagues; O Grave, where is your ruin! Repentance shall be hidden from My eyes” (Hosea 13:4, 14 MKJV). [end]
Here are portions of another writing that answers your question: “Similarly, why did Jesus pray to the Father if Jesus & the Father are in fact the same person?”
How can God be manifest in more than one realm? The same way He can conceive Himself in a virgin without a man – through the power of His Spirit. His rulership and presence pervade all realms, visible and invisible. To deny the expression of His power is to deny that God is actively engaged and ruling over all things in our world.
Through a virgin giving birth, God entered our sphere of existence as one of us. Though He was God (Spirit), He lived a life as the Son of Man (flesh and blood) in submission to the will of the Father (Spirit).
That’s why Jesus prayed to God, and spoke of Him as the Father. He was confined to a body and the weaknesses to which all men are prone, being flesh and blood, and was dependent on God to overcome them, just as we are. Being God in Spirit, He was able to do what no man could ever do, which is to perfectly depend on the Father in the weakness of His flesh….
In the laying down of His will as a human being, Jesus paved the way for us to do the same – to lay down our lives in Him, as is desirable and needful for our salvation. We haven’t been able to do this on our own, hampered by sin and imprisoned by our own selfishness and carnality, until God (Christ) came into our realm and we overcame through Him. In Christ, the commandments and promises of God meet together – we fulfill the Law of God, overcoming sin and the flesh, and God fulfills His destiny in us. Glory Hallelujah!
His glorious destiny is:
“And the seventh angel trumpeted. And there were great voices in Heaven, saying, The kingdoms of the world became our Lord’s, even of His Christ; and He shall reign to the ages of the ages” (Revelation 11:15 LITV).
God will have all men to know and serve Him, they being freed from the corruption of sin that brings death, in order to walk in His righteousness that is life. “He shall reign,” not “They,” because there are not two Lords, but one Lord God, Whose Kingdom will fill the earth. Our Lord reigns because His Christ overcame sin, not for Himself, but for us and in us. When this victory becomes ours by His faith and our obedience in that faith, then we experience the kingdoms of this world becoming God’s through His Christ. Praise God! What He’s done in one man, He’ll do in all men. [end]
(27) “Now My soul has been troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this reason I came to this hour.”
It’s statements like this that cause people to say Christ was not God because He wouldn’t be talking to God if He were. We’ve answered this objection already, several times, but once again people miss the whole point of what God was doing through Christ. For humanity to be made in His image, a work begun but not completed at creation, God became flesh to make the Way. He had to demonstrate how a person in true holiness and perfection would relate to God.
Adam didn’t have true holiness and perfection, even before he fell. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have chosen to follow another creature, his wife, rather than God, His Creator. No one is naturally holy and perfect, which is why the Scriptures say that God had to bring man to that state Himself. And He did! He alone has that power. It’s through receiving Him in Christ, not by imitating Him, that we share in the life and power to do what’s needed, which we couldn’t do without Him. In this way He, our Creator, makes us in His image, the Christ.
“I am the LORD, your Savior; I am the One Who created you. I am the LORD, the Creator of all things. I alone stretched out the heavens; when I made the earth, no one helped Me” (Isaiah 44:24 GNB).
(28) “Father, glorify Your Name.” Then a voice came out of Heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”
“Glorify Your Name”! The hour had come that the Son of Man should be glorified. What is the Father’s Name? What is the one Name by which men are baptized into God, receiving His Spirit? What is the only Name given under Heaven whereby men must be saved?
The Lord Jesus Christ! (Acts 4:12.)
“For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6 KJV). [end]
So there you have it, Eric, from the Scriptures. One more I’m reminded of, somewhere in our writings to be sure, is this:
Philippians 2:5-11 HNV
(5) Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua,
(6) Who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(7) but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
(8) And being found in human form, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the cross.
(9) Therefore God also highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the Name which is above every name;
(10) so that, at the Name of Yeshua, every knee should bow, of those in Heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth,
(11) and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In summary, Eric, it’s not about us trying to understand the Nature of God and His Anointed with our carnal minds, but having the Nature of God through Christ, making us anointed and causing us to know Him and all things.
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things” (1 John 2:20 MKJV).
Have you experienced supernatural repentance from your sins, the grace of God to escape the corruption in the world? If so, have you received the Spirit since you believed?
Click HERE to read more of our section – The Trinity.
Is God dependent on man’s goodness to get His message and saving power to those He desires to receive it? Meet two fictional characters who think so. Their story is intended to inspire you to perform good deeds, but the real tale is a tragedy of unbelief and misplaced confidence.
From: Javier To: The Path of Truth Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:35 AM Subject: Trinty diabolical doctrine? Dear Victor and Paul Cohen. How can you explain a Trinity as diabolical? What about these and myriad other scriptures? John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one. Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. 2 Corinthians 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. ([The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.]) Matthew 3:16-17 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him..etc. (read the rest in the Bible) John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. You can only send something in the name of another if you have the sent and the sender....that is more than one. The word ‘and’ is an addition of, otherwise an ‘or’ statement would be...
From: John To: The Path of Truth Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 2:03 AM Subject: False Prophet Article Authored by Paul and Victor regarding Jan Boshoff Dear Pathfinder, In regard to blog post regarding prophet Jan Boshoff (https://www.thepathoftruth.com/false-teachers/jan-boshoff.htm). I regret I do not write with praise report. My mother may have fallen prey to said false prophet. She has gone MIA, closed Facebook account, cell phone off, joint (mother/father) bank account record suggest plurality of money transaction to Jan Boshoff. My mother has sought God her entire life. Now I worry for her safety and well-being as her health may be at risk of peril due to projected thought of imminent doom. I would appreciate contact with principal author (s), "Jan Boshoff - A False Prophet Gets a Lesson about True Prophets" whom I believe is Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen. Please contact me day or night: <email removed> (XXX) XXX-XXXX (PST) Best Regards, John (Son - Age 38) [Paul Cohen and John talked on the phone at the end of August.] From: Paul Cohen To: John Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 1:28 PM Subject: Re: False Prophet Article Authored by Paul and Victor regarding Jan Boshoff Hi John, Did you find out what happened to your mother? Would appreciate hearing from you. Paul From: John To: Paul Cohen Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 4:12 PM Subject: Re: False Prophet Article Authored by Paul and Victor re...