The Carnal Reasonings of a Trinitarian

A site reader (e-mail handle: “swords”) asked us:

What is your belief concerning the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit equal or lesser than God?

Paul’s reply:

“God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24 MKJV).

The Holy Spirit is God.

“Then take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit placed you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God which He purchased through His own blood” (Acts 20:28 LITV).

That’s all referring to the One True God, not separate beings. For more of our answer, read The Asininity of the Trinity and writings in Jesus Christ Is God.

Paul Cohen

“swords” answered:

Trinitarians do not believe that God is three separate persons.The Trinity consists of one being revealed in three distinct (not separate) persons. Since God is three Persons, but only one Being, it would be inappropriate to speak of members of the Trinity as beings or individuals…

Paul’s reply:

How are three distinct persons not separate individuals? How can they possibly be distinct if not separate? Are you your mother and father? Is this not pagan foolishness, subterfuge, and blasphemy?

If I am a son, though not my own son, a brother, though not my own brother, and a father, though not my own father, am I not only one individual? But in their un-Biblical dogma, Trinitarians may as well believe each is his own father or son or…? What confusion, which is what Mystery Babylon is all about!

If you want to argue some more, first read the paper I sent you, which will answer all your arguments in advance. The important question is, why are you making an issue of this heathen doctrine? Why is it so important to you? Did you know that John Calvin had Michael Servetus burned at the stake for defying his beloved trinity doctrine? Is that the love of God, to burn men alive who don’t agree with you? Do not fruits tell?

And by the way, Calvin couldn’t answer Servetus’ arguments, just like you won’t be able to answer ours. Will you go the way of Calvin, opposing those who know the Lord, Who is the Truth, stubbornly clinging to your pride and idols, unrepentant to your death?

Paul

“swords” replied:

What is your view of the Godhead? Modalism? Is God a shape shifter? Only one being at any one time? Never all three at the same time? Did God take the role of Father in the OT, the Son during Jesus’ life on earth, and the Holy Spirit during the church age?

So, who then was Christ praying to? When He died, did He also resurrect Himself? Are these 3 modes or forms that God takes on consecutive and never simultaneous? In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another? The Bible tells us that all three were present at Jesus’ baptism.

Is Jesus Christ also God the Father? Why is it that Jesus Christ knows not the day or hour of His 2nd coming, but only God the Father knows? Why during creation does God use the plural: Let us make man in our image. Is God talking to Himself? Was Jesus simultaneously on earth AND in heaven? When he died, did he also resurrect himself?

Do you also deny the subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence? We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. The Father sent the Son. The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit . The Father creates , the Son redeems , and the Holy Spirit sanctifies. This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son. But this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity, but inferior in his humanity. The trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who manifests Himself as three distinct, simultaneous persons. The Trinity does not assert that there are three gods, but only one. Those who don’t understand, like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, tend to mock and accuse that we believe in a 3-headed god. Ice, vapor and liquid are all of one substance: water.

If God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit can be in 3 different places at the same time, what does that tell you? Each member of the Trinity is God There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. singular verb (let us make man in our image) indicating a plurality with a singular action. Do not each member of the Trinity distinguish one from another in various passages.

As for John Calvin I really couldn’t care less. One final note: Servetus believed that only from the moment of conception, was the Son actually generated. Therefore the Son was not eternal.

Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending.

Paul and Victor’s reply:

“If you want to argue some more, first read the paper I sent you, which will answer all your arguments in advance.”

“For more of our answer, read The Asininity of the Trinity and writings in Jesus Christ Is God.”

Apparently you read the Bible the same way you read our letters. For example, you ask, “When He died, did He also resurrect Himself?”

God supplies the simple answer:

“Then the Jews answered and said to Him, ‘What sign do you show us, since you do these things?’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.’ Then the Jews said, ‘This temple was forty-six years building, and will you rear it up in three days?’ But He spoke of the temple of His body” (John 2:18-21 MKJV).

You don’t hear or see a thing and are not the least interested in doing so.

So of course it figures that you don’t care about such little things as murder, even of true saints, and the breaking of God’s Laws by hypocrites who claim to uphold His Law. You are too occupied with grandiose philosophical nonsense and blaspheming.

“The incomprehensible God is known through Christ, by faith, rather than by philosophical speculations. He manifests God to us, being the expression of His very being, and through Him alone, God can be known.” – Michael Servetus

Servetus knew the Son to be the Eternal God in Person, knowing His earthly body only to be formed at conception, not His existence.

And to whom are we speaking? Whatever your name or affiliation, which you are too cowardly to divulge, we perceive you as a true child of the prince of darkness.

You accuse us Inquisition-style, hiding your name and identity, but you aren’t hidden to us. You identify yourself not with name, but with the essence of a wily serpent. What are you, an arrogant Jesuit, seeking to subvert the Truth of God in defense of “The Holy Office”? It won’t work because the Lord is with us, He being greater than, and Lord over, the Devil with you.

The objections you raise, and the questions you think to be so clever in asking, are all answered in the documents we have given you, which writings are prepared for those who want to hear and learn, to their salvation. Your evil agenda, however, won’t allow for those godly benefits.

To us, our beloved brother John wrote concerning you:

“You are of God, little children, and you have overcome them, because He Who is in you is greater than he who is in the world” (1 John 4:4 MKJV).

Knowing God through His appearing to us as Jesus Christ, having been baptized into His corporate Body by faith,

Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk

Click HERE to read more of our section – The Trinity.