We received the following unsubscribe note after sending A Letter to a Mormon:
Please delete my email address from your mailing list. You have obtained it illegally and I do not appreciate being spammed. I will ask only once. Should you obtain anyone from my address book as you have done from Debbie, I will take this to the next step.
Greetings in Christ Jesus, Kim and Duncan,
We have obtained nothing illegally, as you charge. We know nothing of how one could possibly take addresses from someone’s address book. Those are false accusations. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor,” remember, or did you ever know?
We are not charging for anything, or spamming in the sense that we are selling anything, or continuing to send mail to those who do not wish to have it. In fact, our Intro Letter clearly offered the option to unsubscribe if you were not interested. Apparently you were quite willing to receive this correspondence, which has gone out a few times to you, until we hit a nerve. Likely, you are Mormon, and quite offended, unable or unwilling to be objective, which only serves to prove the things we say.
A question: If you are Mormon, and if Jesus Christ and His example and teachings are as important to you as you people claim, and you believe in being “selfless” and “Christ like,” then how is your reaction demonstrating any of these claims you make? Something to think about. As it says, not in your spurious Book of Mormon, but in the Bible:
“For even hereunto were you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judges righteously: Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed” (1 Peter 2:21-24).
What have you suffered at our hands, even if your false accusations were true? And had you suffered anything, what ought you to have done, according to your profession of faith?
You are unsubscribed. You needed only ask once. Your threats are not necessary.
Kim wrote back, and here is Victor’s reply:
I reply in Christ Jesus, Lord of lords and Very God, Kim,
Thank you for your response. In discussing your reply, Paul wrote this:
Victor, remember that Kim and Debbie (the woman from A Letter to a Mormon) acknowledges no wrongdoing. They accuse, and then justify themselves in their own righteousness instead of confessing that they were not only wrong, but in sin to think and react the way they have.
Permit me to address several points of error. I will write within your letter (which is now in purple):
Thank you for removing me from your list. I never read the first however many emails because I do not open spam email and I would not have known the circumstance as to why I was receiving this except that Debbie asked me the other day if I received email from “The Issues of Life”.
Concerning “SPAM,” I will share these thoughts from one of our recipients:
The new website is set out in an uncluttered, clear and concise manner. I like the picture. It is a good picture, depicting everyday life with a bold ray of light shining down the middle.
A thought occurred to me while reading some of the emails you’ve sent others who accuse you of spam, who have asked you where you got their email addresses from. If anyone is interested in hearing the truth and if it is truly God they seek, then they won’t care where you got their email addresses from, what would be of importance is that you got hold of them for the sake of the truth. I am really grateful to God that you got hold of my email address and I don’t care to know where from, all that matters to me is that you found me and I praise God for your emails.
I still have not read anything other then this email, therefore, the only nerve you hit was the invasion of privacy with Debbie. I need not rebuttal or defend my position; I am who I am, as you are who you are.
There is more than one witness that tells me you are offended and reject our correspondence because you are Mormon, not that I believe you were ever interested.
But as last farewell, I just wanted to answer your questions, I am a Mormon, but unlike my counter parts I do not try to force it down other people’s throats, brainwash them or any other tactic. I believe in my religion because it teaches love, charity, compassion, and that we are all here for a purpose.
Indeed, Kim, we are all here for a purpose, as are all things. May I draw your attention to www.whatismormonism.com, in which you will see for yourself, from the mouths of your own leaders, including Smith himself, what the Mormon religion really teaches? Reality and facts speak for themselves. Are you comfortable with the truth, or afraid of it?
I have experienced much of the world and my husband is not a Mormon and therefore I have a very well rounded view of the world, religion, worship and life. This is why I have not challenged your views and opinions, as I believe everyone, as stated in our religion, “…let them worship how, where or what they may” Articles of Faith #11.
That is quite different from Jesus’ teachings. He said to the Samaritan woman:
“You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him. God is a spirit, and they who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:22-24).
Furthermore, the God of the Bible (Jesus Christ) teaches otherwise. He made it very clear that man ought to worship Him, and as quoted above, only in certain ways. For example:
“And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, and put incense on it, and offered strange fire before Jehovah, which He had not commanded them. And there went out fire from Jehovah and devoured them, and they died before Jehovah. Then Moses said to Aaron, It is that which Jehovah spoke, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come near me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel, the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, Come near, carry your brothers from before the sanctuary out of the camp. And they came near and carried them in their coats out of the camp, as Moses had said. And Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and Ithamar his sons, Do not uncover your heads nor tear your clothes, lest you die, and lest He be angry on all the people. But let your brothers, the whole of Israel, mourn the burning which Jehovah has kindled. And you shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die. For the anointing oil of Jehovah is on you. And they did according to the word of Moses” (Leviticus 10:1-7).
Your “Articles of Faith” contradict the Bible, the Word of God. While Old Testament ceremonies are no longer, the message is clear. We are not permitted to do as we please before God. Would you appear barebreasted before officials, thinking to please them? How much more must you know what it is that the Lord requires of those that approach Him! To do anything of our own understanding is presumptuous, arrogant, ignorant, selfish, and wicked, not to mention, deadly. We know Him, His will, and His desire.
That is why we do challenge your “views and opinions,” which are not primarily yours but those of others, whom you have believed. Jesus has commanded us, as His disciples, to reprove the works of darkness, and to “shout from the housetops that which we have heard in the ear,” for His sake, and for the sakes of all those in darkness, such as yourself. It is out of His love that your beliefs are challenged, and your “privacy invaded,” and you do not recognize it.
(Should you want a copy of this for your own information.) I am just insisting that you stop invading my life and privacy to tell me I am wrong or that my friends, family and associates are wrong.
If you heard someone shouting from a housetop near you, you might not like it. You condemn shouting from housetops for itself, but I tell you that you ought to be paying attention more to what is being said, and why, than to the act itself. You do wrong in legalistically condemning the preaching of the Gospel, as if God first needs your permission to send His servants to you to do so. Are these not the fruits of those who hate the truth?
Why would you fault someone for telling others they are wrong? The Bible is full of testimony of the prophets and apostles telling others they are wrong. Jesus Christ told people they were wrong. They were justified because they knew whereof they spoke. We also are justified, and commissioned to tell others they are wrong. That is why people are called upon to repent. They are wrong! Otherwise, there would be no need of repentance, would there? How will a child know it is wrong unless taught? How will a student know his answer is wrong unless a teacher corrects him? How will people know they are wrong unless they are told? Would you prefer to remain in your errors, which bring sorrow, suffering and death?
I also challenge you to read honestly the entire Book of Mormon prior to quoting scripture from the bible again, not to covert you, but to show you that what you have heard is not really what we teach.
You assume I have not red the entire Book of Mormon, but I have. I am quite familiar with what your organization teaches. Are you? Again, the recommended web site: www.whatismormonism.com. It is an eye opener, but of course, welcome only by those who truly desire to have their eyes opened. I hope you do. If not now, one day you will.
I also challenge you to collect more then 1 bible as I have begun to study many. Not to judge others as you might think but just to understand people. Many bibles are different in there wording and translation.
I have many versions of the Bible, though not Joseph Smith’s, to which, we are told, he added words to predict his own coming, adding from Genesis 50:27 to 33. However, if you had every Bible translation in the world, would that give you understanding of people? How so? Do you know what you are talking about, Kim? True understanding comes by the fear of God. Many read Bibles, yet do not believe, or do you have the mistaken belief that because someone reads a Bible that they fear God?
Are any of them wrong? No. As long as people truly believe in the basic principles that are taught; tolerance, patience, love, compassion, hard work, charity, forgiveness and embracing life (positive and negative), there can be no wrong.
Is your love acceptable before God?
“For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?” (Matthew 5:46)
“For if you love those who love you, what thanks do you have? For sinners also love those who love them” (Luke 6:32).
Is your hard work and sacrifice good enough, and acceptable before God?
“And though I give out all my goods to feed the poor, and though I deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, I am profited nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:3).
Embracing life (as you know life)? Is that good?
“Rejoice, in your youth, young man; and let your heart cheer you in the days of your youth, and walk in the ways of your heart, and in the sight of your eyes; but know that for all these things God will bring you into judgment” (Ecclesiastes 11:9).
I can give you many, many Scriptures to refute your words that are not founded in truth but in the wicked imaginations, reasonings, and philosophies of the dark minds and spirits of this world, no matter how wonderful they sound. You speak things that many speak, things that Mormons generally believe, but you and they all are wrong, Kim, wrong. How do I know this?
“For with You is the fountain of life; in Your light we shall see light” (Psalms 36:9).
“Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path” (Psalms 119:105).
“The entrance of Your Words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple” (Psalms 119:130).
“And they shall teach My people to discern between the holy and common, and between the unclean and the clean” (Ezekiel 44:23).
“But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil” (Hebrews 5:14).
You believe man’s lies (Book of Mormon), called the Word of God, instead of God’s truth, His Word, the Bible. That is why you continue in darkness, manifested in all that you think and say.
We are all children of the same God and he loves us all…
This belief contradicts the Word of God:
“But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God” (John 1:12-13).
…especially when we stop trying to drag each other down but encourage our differences in each other.
“Especially”? God’s love is not conditional upon our alleged goodness:
“But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).
“But we are all as the unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as a menstruation cloth. And we all fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away” (Isaiah 64:6).
As for “encouraging our differences,” the entire Bible contradicts your humanistic, antiChrist gospel of ungodly unity and love:
“Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty” (2 Corinthians 6:17-18).
“I wrote to you in the letter not to associate intimately with fornicators; yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then you must go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to associate intimately, if any man called a brother and is either a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one not to eat” (1 Corinthians 5:9-11).
Thank you again and may you find joy in your life,
Kim, if you only knew the joy of the Lord. To that end we preach. That is our motive and desire is to bring that joy to others, but they must turn from their sins, which we tell them to do, as God spoke to Isaiah, saying:
“Cry aloud, do not spare, lift up your voice like a ram’s horn, and show My people their rebellion, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1).
PS: in our “spurious Book of Mormon” there is a passage that promotes your passage by saying
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that ye shall also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that ye shall do;” 3 Nephi 27:21
We have discussed the Book of Mormon. When you go to the recommended web site, you will be advised as to how justified you are of your trust in it. That is not to say that the Book of Mormon does not have true things said in it. Most pieces of literature do. Your confidence, however, is ill placed because the Book of Mormon is indeed spurious, a work of fiction of the first order.
How is it you criticize me for speaking the truth, in saying that Mormonism is false, and the Book of Mormon a pack of lies, which they are, when you disallow me to criticize you for believing lies?
Just remember to be fully effective in your cause you need to study and learn all sides, before you can teach.
Kim, why would I remember that? Must I be a prostitute or sleep with one to understand and to teach her? Must I be a Muslim before I can speak the truth to one? Must I be a drug addict before I can earn the right to help them? Here again is the Word of God on that notion:
“And be very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the Law of Moses, so that you do not turn aside from it to the right or to the left; so that you do not come among these nations, these that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves to them” (Joshua 23:6-7).
Did the Israelites learn all the other religions of Canaan? Was Solomon to marry all those wives in order to understand them? They led him astray with their gods.
“For your obedience reached to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf, but I would have you truly wise as to good, and simple toward evil” (Romans 16:19).
I understand that you are trying to be friendly. However, our trust is in the Lord, and not in luck. With Him, we have no need of luck, and nothing is left to chance. He rules.
And by the way, the Book of Mormon only promotes the teachings of the Bible, it is the views & teachings of other prophets and leaders from other countries/continents from the same times surrounding the life of Christ.
This is patently false, Kim. However, even if you were to find the Book of Mormon supporting the Bible in some ways, the teachings of the Mormon Church definitely are antiScriptural. You are either lying to me (which I do not believe you are), or you are ignorant of the true nature and doctrine of your own religion, which I believe you are. Again, acquaint yourself with the site I mentioned as to what Mormonism does truly teach, while keeping the common people in the dark. There is also a book published, called One Nation Under Gods, A History of the Mormon Church by Richard Abanes, Four Walls Eight Windows, New York. It is objective and factual from what I have been told. I will be reading it as well. Nevertheless, my confidence is not in that web site or that book, but in the Lord and revealed Scripture.
There were far more people in the world then mentioned in the Bible being taught by more of Gods prophets and visited by his Angels so they could prepare fore his coming also, whether they would have the opportunity to see him or not. There cannot be one book without the other in our religion.
God grant you the grace to know the truth. You will see that while one book, the Bible is fully verifiable, the other, the Book of Mormon, is anything but. Truly, it can be, has been, and is, proven to be false altogether.
As to the coming of the Lord, what makes you think you will be acceptable as you are? He is here now, and you are found greatly wanting, you and Debbie.
Not in enmity, not in sarcasm, not in vindictiveness, not in ignorance, but in love and truth, earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the fathers (Jude),
We hear back from Andrew the Mormon regarding substantive facts about Mormonism and the Book of Mormon provided by a linked site Victor had sent to him. While making gestures and offering some ideas that suggest otherwise, Andrew offered no hard evidence or facts to the contrary, but instead finally resorted to making a personal attack. Victor answers the arguments and the accusations.
“In that hour Jesus rejoiced in Spirit and said, I thank You, Father, Lord of Heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the sophisticated and cunning, and have revealed them to babes. Yes, Father, for so it was pleasing before You” (Luke 10:21).
A thief at large is identified by name to warn others, so they can avoid being pilfered. At the same time, the greater thieves, those who stalk a much larger population and do far greater damage, are also identified. The Mormon Church has stolen the Name of Jesus Christ to cover activities and intentions that are criminal in the sight of God. They are exposed as hypocritical and covetous when refusing to take any responsibility or remedial actions for the misdeeds of one its members.