From: Leslie
To: The Path of Truth
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 6:01 PM
Subject: I like your thinking out of the box.
In regards to good and evil, yes its true that God has provided both good and evil. But in understanding how this works we need to understand the omniscient nature of God.
Logic would say that 1 Peter 1:20 prepares Christ as redeemer prior to the establishment of Adam and Eve , hence God new that there free choice would be to do evil.
BUT just because God has the power to see into the future does not mean that He uses this in every situation. He is our father who respectfully gives us the privacy of choice and only intervenes when we are at our most critical stage of sinning. For example, God could read the hearts of those of Sodom YET, agreed with Abraham that should there be a few good hearts the city would be spared.Q; What would be the point if God new all were evil?
Another point; When God created the spirit creatures known as gods or angels, ( Proverbs 8 21-32 ) they evolved ( not made ) through many dispensations of choosing right from wrong .Then eventually chose to do right. This process may have taken one million years having been procured by more than one pair of Gods creatures. But to God time it is irrelevant.
Satan was one of many who went through this evolutionary process BUT decided to choose wrong and take a third of the angels with him.This was before Adam and Eve who were to be influenced by one of these fallen angels who GOD allowed to enter into the garden.
Another point to consider is this;
Satan and his angels were thrown out of the inner sanctum of heaven, ( known as the city built four square ) left to roam the outer parts which is within the earthly domain. Note; The Bible speaks of Gods tabernacle as inner and outer sanctums. And the earth as Gods foot stool.
Hope this helps.
Please keep in contact as I do value your comments.
Your brother in Christ Leslie.
From: Paul Cohen and Victor Hafichuk
To: Leslie
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: I like your thinking out of the box.
Leslie, if our thinking is outside the box, it’s only because we’re outside the box by the grace of God, according to His commandment:
2 Corinthians 6:14-18
(14) Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?
(15) And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
(16) And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”
(17) Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
(18) and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
We see you inside the box of man’s thinking, whether it be of your own making or others’. What you’ve written us is strewn with error, but even if correct in certain things, your dependence on the carnal mind is wrongness itself. You’re not walking in the faith of Christ, Leslie. You need to come to the Lord Whom we preach in order to learn to walk by faith or you’ll remain fully confederate with Satan, analyzing him and everything else according to his power.
You ask:
“For example, God could read the hearts of those of Sodom YET, agreed with Abraham that should there be a few good hearts the city would be spared. Q; What would be the point if God new all were evil?”
Abraham asked God WHAT IF there were so many righteous (those who obeyed God) in Sodom, so God was answering a hypothetical question, confirming what Abraham said about Him:
“Far be it from You to act in this manner, to kill the righteous with the wicked. And far be it from You, that the righteous should be as the wicked. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25)
Some appropriate writings (also see the enclosed links) answering the subjects brought up in your letter:
Satan Was Once a Good Being
The Origin and Identity of Satan
The Purpose of Evil
God: All Knowing AND All Doing
And most importantly, for you personally:
Repentance
How One Is Saved
The Cross – Only the Death Sentence Will Avail
Doctrine isn’t where it’s at – here’s where it is… “Christ Jesus, Who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).
Paul Cohen & Victor Hafichuk
From: Leslie
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: I like your thinking out of the box.
Greetings, and thanks for your reply.
You said ;”Doctrine isn’t where it’s at – here’s where it is… “Christ Jesus, Who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption” (1 Corinthians 1:30).
Therefore I would assume that 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 is referring only to unbelievers and not Christians who have a different interpretation of the gospel message.i.e. JW’s, Mormons etc.
If the bible tells us to test all spirits , would that not include all religious tenets?
You said;
Abraham asked God WHAT IF there were so many righteous (those who obeyed God) in Sodom, so God was answering a hypothetical question, confirming what Abraham said about Him:
Reply;
Everyone who has ever taken a science class knows the word hypothetical comes from the word “hypothesis,” which means an idea, or a guess, that you are going to test through an experiment. A hypothetical is related to that. It means something based on an informed guess.Q: Do you think that the Almighty God bases His decisions on a informed guess? For example; The TRINITY is a hypotheses made by second century Tertullian and Evolution is an hypotheses made by Darwin. But both hypotheses are just informed guesses based on ones personal opinion. Albert Einstein said “God does not play dice” Meaning He is absolutely precise ( not chance) without any hypotheticals. One could never win a chest game with God.Why? Because He would know all your moves before you had ever thought of them. Now that’s thinking outside the box!
Gods grace to you. Leslie.
From: Paul and Victor
To: Leslie
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 7:42 AM
Subject: Re[3]: I like your thinking out of the box.
“Hypothetical,” according to the WordWeb Dictionary, means: “Based primarily on surmise rather than adequate evidence.”
Abraham was posing a hypothetical question because he didn’t have adequate evidence to show there were fifty or even ten righteous souls in Sodom. But if there were even ten such souls in Sodom, God told Abraham He wouldn’t destroy the city. The Lord wasn’t guessing or speculating.
You say:
“Therefore I would assume that 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 is referring only to unbelievers and not Christians who have a different interpretation of the gospel message.i.e. JW’s, Mormons etc.”
JW’s and Mormons aren’t Christians, Leslie – not according to God’s definition of one – and neither are you. You have never known the Lord Jesus Christ. Yours is purely an intellectual faith of an unregenerate and corrupt mind.
Not a condemnation, only a statement of the fact that condemnation already exists:
“He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the Only Begotten Son of God” (John 3:18 MKJV).
Paul and Victor
From: Leslie
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Re[3]: I like your thinking out of the box.
May I remind you that the bible says “By there fruits you shall now them”
Paul, You don’t know my fruits well enough to make this statement-quote;
“You have never known the Lord Jesus Christ. Yours is purely an intellectual faith of an unregenerate and corrupt mind.”
Would you say that the ancient Jewish Boreans challenged Pauls teaching intellectually? -“Let us reason” is the motto in learning-is it not?
I would say that from your above comment demonstrates to me that your faith is based on fear of criticism. Rather than respect for opinion. It is LOVE that finds common ground.
Apologetics.- Subject: God has no hypotheticals
Why would Jehovah even bother to give false hope to Abraham in saving the city if there were 10 souls- despite the fact that He had already judged the hearts of all Sodomits.?
God thinks not in mans hypotheticals but in the realms of reality.
Obviously Abraham lacked understanding of Gods foreknowledge. More ignorance than ‘inadequate evidence’ as you surmise. Jehovah allowed Abrahams lack of intuition to for fill His prophetic purpose.What’s that? To demonstrate His justice to all including His angelic beings.This is a very crucial factor which you had not addressed.
Even though God knows the outcomes of all our steps He allows us to evolve by free choice allowing Himself or the Devil to influence our decision making process.
From doubt derives FAITH.
As a Christian you are compelled to agree to disagree.
From: Paul and Victor
To: Leslie
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 7:40 AM
Subject: Re[5]: I like your thinking out of the box.
Leslie, you ask:
“Would you say that the ancient Jewish Boreans challenged Pauls teaching intellectually?”
The Bereans most certainly didn’t challenge Paul’s teaching – they believed it as the Word of God:
“And these were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so” (Acts 17:11 MKJV).
The Bereans weren’t searching the Scriptures in unbelief, questioning what they heard from Paul. They were searching in sheer delight, looking for sure confirmation of the marvelous truth they had received with all readiness of mind through the faith of Christ. You’ve just given two proofs that you don’t have the same faith.
One, you don’t recognize the ways of the Lord and His faith. And two, you don’t receive the Word of God through us, His servants.
This cannot be said of you:
“For this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when you received from us the Word of the Message of God, you accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in Truth, the Word of God, which also works in you who believe” (1 Thessalonians 2:13 WEB).
Your fruits are quite evident, Leslie. You plainly declare that you’re a self-made, and not a God-made, Christian. You haven’t known the Lord Jesus Christ at all, or know what you’re talking about though you consider yourself so wise.
Isaiah 5:21-24 MKJV
(21) Woe to those wise in their own eyes, and bright in their own sight!
(22) Woe to those mighty to drink wine, and brave men to mix strong drink;
(23) who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
(24) So, as the fire devours the stubble, and the flame burns up the chaff; their root shall be like rottenness, and their blossoms shall go up like dust, because they have cast away the Law of the LORD of Hosts, and despised the Word of the Holy One of Israel.
Paul and Victor
From: Leslie
To: Paul Cohen
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2016 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: Re[5]: I like your thinking out of the box.
” “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: Isaiah 1:18
Paul in reply; . To reason, or some say settle, is to converse on a intellectual plan-there can be no other peaceful means were respect for opinion is valued..
Reason according to its definition means; The power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgements logically.
For example when testing the spirits –1 John 4:1. .
“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world”
Logic would say that one would indeed need to test all the 1300 various Christian religions based on traditional bible interpretations to even come close to what constitutes the truth.
Putting aside prejudice, tradition and bigotry does need examination on a intellectual plan- would you not agree?.. No wonder why God said to search the truth with fear and with trembling.
But todays Christians would rather leave the intellectualising to there church nobles, believing it not of any importance to find truths for themselves.After all, many who have not done there homework are of the opinion that just believing in God will save them. Men ( which may include yourself) on the pulpit need to be questionable, which process of inquiry,is based on sound reasoning in qualifying godly actions. “By there fruits you shall now them” It is by this means that one recognises the ways of the LORD.
For this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when you received from us the Word of the Message of God, you accepted it not as the word of men, but, as it is in Truth, the Word of God, which also works in you who believe” (1 Thessalonians 2:13 WEB).
Above is referring to Gods seed of salvation which according to scripture can be robed How? By simply not acting on the Word of God through bible council. This council can only be reasoned by human intellect. “Love God and your neighbour as yourself!”
Making the seed grow involves Apollo’s which symbolises sound doctrine This the Bereans sort by inquiry-which is human intellect.Granted, without the living water of Gods Holy Spirit nothing can grow.
The Holy Spirit symbolises the anointing –oil..
Apollos symbolises todays anointed-men –the faithful slaves of God who dispense the spiritual food and are the custodians of our souls.
( 1 Corinthians 3:6 –Hebrew 13:17 – Mathew 24:45 )
I reason; With mere humans claiming so much power, would it be not logical to inquire as to there credentials using a intellectual methodology? Or are we to be fooled by the notion that these prophet like nobles –who its seems are only through you ( “you don’t receive the Word of God through us, His servants.” ) who’s only reasoning is by Holy Spirit.?
Conclusion.
So then, what is it that you have apart from your interpretation of scripture that has me not believing that you are just another false prophet? Please explain?
Food for thought!
Ones fine fruits are written from the hand of grace- and not in the letter of the law.
From: Victor and Paul
To: Leslie
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 6:54 AM
Subject: Re[7]: I like your thinking out of the box
Leslie, there could be a book written to address your error in this letter, but it won’t go anywhere with you. Yours is not a godly but a carnal reasoning – you’re dead in your head because dead in your heart. As the apostle Paul says by the Spirit and not by carnal reasoning:
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit” (Romans 8:1 MKJV).
Romans 8:5-8 MKJV
(5) For they who are according to the flesh mind the things of flesh, but they who are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(6) For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace
(7) because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
(8) So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.
There is a spiritual reasoning by the mind enlightened and transformed by the Spirit of God through the new birth in Jesus Christ, and there is the unregenerate anti-Christ carnal mind that cannot receive the things of the Kingdom of God. As Paul said:
1 Corinthians 2:13-16 MKJV
(13) These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(15) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
(16) For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
We have Christ’s Mind by a new birth. You have your carnal mind, never having been born again, and never shall the two meet. You need repentance toward God, proud intellectual.
Seeing you are wise in your own eyes, go your way; we’re done with you. Know this: you’ve been addressed from Heaven and it can’t go well for you in the reasoning you choose.
Victor and Paul
From: Leslie
To: Victor Hafichuk
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Re[7]: I like your thinking out of the box
From what I read I can only fathom that you are Pentecostal or Charismatic in your reasoning. Is this so?
Those who are in error of Bible truths are indeed dead in there heart. A form of godly devotion without the power. But the power rest in the true gospel which the bible tells us can be a counterfeit Christ.
This is were human reasoning needs to be exercised in testing the spirits ( power base ) of the 700 splinter Pentecostal groups such as the UPC who all claim the only gospel of Christ?
Or the 1300 non-Pentecostals who are divided in there Holy Spirit understandings to which tenet is of God or of man.i.e. Baptismal regeneration, speaking in tongues, woman’s ministries, infant baptism, pre-destination, Trinity , Unitarianism and the list goes on and on. Which one are you? Granted, prior to the cannon when men were illiterate, Gods Holy Spirit spoke through prophetic utterances. But know we have Gods Word, we can read and evaluate its council by using our reasoning skills along with the help of the Holy Spirits guidance .
Mathew 7:16; “ ………Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”
Mathew is saying that just because the fruit appears ripe- doesn’t necessarily mean it taste good. Have you tasted the fruit in your local supermarket lately? Is it as sweet, crisp and juicy as it first appears? Therefore its only prudent and wise that the fruit- as in spiritual food, dispensed by Gods stewards need to be ‘taste tested’ from contaminants. As in oil that goes rancid. ( Mathew 24:4 )
Yes we are counselled in Psalms to not just see the fruit of which a tree bears but to also taste and see that the LORD is good.
This taste test involves a three tier application as follows;
( 1 ) Doubt – as in critical and negative thinking.- 1 John 4:1.
( 2 ) Enquire, as in asking questions. – Mathew 7:7 – Philippians 2:12 – Acts 17:11.
( 3 ) Evaluation -as in gathering up or experiencing evidence. Mathew 7:16 – James 1:22.
It is from these three initiatives that FAITH is mustered.
Take for example the disciple Thomas, who by doubt through critical enquiry was indeed testing the spirit of one who claimed to be the Christ. It was only when Jesus produced the evidence of His scars that Thomas believed – which is more than I can say for his eleven brothers, who never made any such inquiry. This could have been the reason why they were berated by Christ for there lack of faith. ( John 20:27 – Mark 16:14 )
There can be no doubt that Thomas used human intellect –a methodology consisting of doubt, enquiry and evaluation in testing Christ new glorified body. That would mean that if a Mormon or JW comes to the door, to know if they are right or wrong needs enquiry and lots of evidence-made apparent by using intellect. And not a voice from heaven. Reasoning is founded on solid Bible teaching which is what exposes many false profits who lack the wisdom from which God gives those who are His true followers.Those gifted with an eye are ear.
Conclusion.
Through reasoning ( intellect )the narrow road leads us closer to the gate of salvation. The Holy Spirit is the light that guides us. Remember, the broader road only leads the blind to follow the blind.
To search our salvation is to query all spirits that claim to be of Christ.The only means to do this is by using our reasoning skills.