David and Denise Sommerville Correspondence
Denise’s testimony, sent on Tuesday, March 07, 2006:
Hello Victor and your wife;
I was brought up in a home where my mother was Agnostic, and my Father an Athiest. My mother said that at a very early age I asked her questions about God that she could not answer so she sent me to classes at the Anglican Church.I Was ten years old and remember how disappointed I was, because they never talked about God, only the ten commandments which we were to memorize. At 18 I was hitchhiking in Vancouver with my girlfriend, looking for a party. Two guys picked us up and took us to their apartment. They began playing gitars and singing songs about Jesus. I was drawn to the words, and they saw my hunger and asked me to go to Church which was a Baptist Church. I always felt empty after the services. I lived a double life, party on the weekend, and go to church on Sunday. I felt empty and dirty even though I was a virgin; I felt unclean. When I went back to my home town Cranbrook I found a Baptist Church and attended, but try as I did I could not find peace. I still felt unclean.
I started going from Church to Church. I studied the world religions. I didn’t know at that time that God was dwawing me to himself. I would ask people hard questions about God and the evil in the world. Why was I alive, and what purpose I had to live? People just got nervous around me and didn’t answer. I got married to an alcoholic in hopes that I could help him. We got Married in the Catholic Church. We had to take classes before we married. I asked the Priest questions about God, he also couldn’t answer any of them. I thought that my purpose was to have children, but even after my precious son was born I felt that empty void in me get bigger.
The Jehovah Wittnesses came to my door to offer to study the Bible. I thought that they might have the answers that I was looking for. I dug my Bible out of its hiding place and dusted it off. I had read parts of it, but it made no sense so I quit. In the meantime my neighbor had become a Christian and she was going to the Alliance Church. She saw the J.W.s coming to my house and she asked if I wanted to attend a night service. I went, but didn;t like the Pastor, he seemed proud and boostful. I did sign their quest book at the urging of my neighbor. A few days later the Pastor comes to call on me. I had questions and some he answered. He talked about the fall of Adam and Eve and why I needed a savior.
He talked about Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross. No one had ever explained that. He wanted to pray with me to accept Christ, but I still didn’t like his attitude and knew my drunk husband would soon be home and make a scene so I quickly repeated his so-called sinners prayer. He left our home thinking that he had brought me into the kingdom. I knew that I was still empty and felt still unclean so I kept studying with the Jehovah Wittnesses. As soon as I mentioned the Alliance Pastor they quickly said that he was from Satan and that I should never go back to the Church. I knew my hunger for truth was not being fed by the J.Ws. so I thought that if the 2 different faiths had a debate in our home then I would decide who was at least closest to the truth.
I phoned up the Pastor and told him I had more questions and if he would come Monday night to answer them. He agreed, and then I told him that the Jehovah Wittnesses would also be at my home with their interpretation of the bible. He
was stunned, because in his mind I was saved and now they were trying to steal his newest convert. He called for the Alliance Church to pray because he didn’t know what they believed. The Pastor showed up with an old gentlemen who I like, and the Jehoval Witnesses showed up with a man elder. The fight was on. Who was Jesus, a god or the GOD. They pulled out the Greek words,a they debated for hours. I watched carefully. The Alliance old gentleman was very loving to the Jehovah Witnesses and said that we are to love even our enemies.
The J/W.s had hate in their eyes. I was confused, I prayed with a sincere heart God PLeas whoever you are, I want your truth tonight.” I heard a voice gently speak in my mind, “Be still, and listen.” The Pastor said at that moment, instead of us argueing, let Denise decide for herself by reading a scripture. We all turned to l John 5, vs ll,l2, “He that has the Son of God has the LIFE and he that does not have the Son of God does not have the LIFE. It was right at that moment I felt someone come behind me and I felt hands lift off a film or skin from my eyes, and my eyes went pop just as we read that scripture.
I told both parties to leave and I cried and cried because I knew that it was Jesus who was the Spiritual LIFE that I was searching for. The next day I woke up to find the empty hole filled with the spirit of God and I knew that I was born of God. I ate the Bible. It was a new book, and I studied it day and night. Sometinmes I would forget to eat physical food. My husband knew something drastic had happened to me, first he noticed my eyes and that I no longer wanted to go out boozing and dancing. I was excited every night to be alone with my Lord so we could have sweet fellowship. The first prayer that I prayed after my rebirth was, “God, only your truth do I want, not mans, but yours.”
One night while I prayed I heard the sound like a dove, and I felt the Spirit come from my innerbeing to my mouth and I spoke in an language that I found out later was Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke. Miracles did happen in my life, but I never joined myself to them, I was too fixed on my Lord. Of course I suffered as Jesus promised all would who followed him, but the sweetness of my fellowship with him was beyond any thing I can explain. He told me that I was a temple with the holy of holies being my spirit and it would be there that we would commune. It would be my closet that man on the outside would never know the intimacy that would be happening within.
God started showing me wonderful revelations, and the more he showed me the more I felt separated from the rest of the world. I yearned to depart and be with him. He gave me poems and songs, dreams and visions, but you would think that every thing he gave would keep me close to his heart.
My hunger for knowledge of God and insights into the life of Christ is what took me away from him. I was so hungry for Jesus Christ that I found books that said the missing years of Jesus, lost books of the Bible. I know now that I should never had read them but I did and doubts about the whole bible came seeping into my mind. I found out that zealous scribes had added to Greek scriptures and that the translators used incorrect English in conveying words. The apostate Church had control of the Bible and inserted their doctrines very cleverly. They made women lesser in the body of Christ.
I was so discouraged, I couldn’t believe I went through the dark night of my soul. I didn’t know that in spite of my unbelief Christ was still working his good pleasure deep within my inner man. My outer man believed that I couldn’t trust the bible and that just maybe it was all a big fat lie. I cried and cried and then I hardened my heart and went back to the the world.
My husband had been abusing me for years and cheating on me, but because I was told that I should stay in the marriage by other Christians I had. Once I lost my faith I didn’t care about anything, I went into a blackslide and lived a life that dishonored God. I took my two children and left my husband. It breaks my heart to remember, but God is faithful even when we are not. He brought me up out of the horrible pit, by bringing a man into my life who was searching for God. At first I ignored his questions, but he saw Christ in me even though I was walking in the flesh. I explained salvation to him and then hoped he would go away so I could just slip further into the world. Dave, the man I met was like ripe fruit ready to be plucked off a branch. I’d speak truth to him and he’d gobble it up even though I was determined not to believe. To finish this testimony, God used Dave to bring me back to faith in Christ.
I still have doubts concerning some passages in the word, but the living word who abides in me convinces me that his treasures of knowedge and wisdom are in him and he will continue to teach me by His Spirit.His truth sets us free, while man’s truth brings us into bondage. His voice is so familiar, because even in my backslide from the living bread he continued to speak and the inner man continued to grow. A mystery to some Christians because they have not experienced this, but to those who have it is the power of God that works in our life to give Him pleasure. He is the only voice I will follow so if you or any other speaks words that are not of the true shepherd I will not follow, but if the words are from God I will.
Looking forward to hearing from you. In Christ Denise Sommerville
I appreciate your willingness to share your spiritual history with us. I wonder if you kept a record of your visions and dreams, and if you had some that you would be free to share with us. Yes, Jesus Christ is Lord God Omnipotent.
Your letter has reminded me of several writings we have. I do not recall which ones you have already red, so I will mention them all and you can sort as you will. They are, besides our testimonies:
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, The Big Lie Exposed, Diabolical Doctrines, 30) “All marriages are of God.”, The Gathering, The Purpose of Evil, The SIGN: The Book of Jonah, the Book of God, The Vashti-Esther Transmutation and The True Marks of a Cult.
I don’t doubt that while I would share certain writings with you, the Lord may use others instead or as well. I am only sharing those coming to mind in relation to what you have told us in your testimony.
I take it you are rather circumspect or cautious, which is understandable. I think you have had many conflicts with many people. Am I right? I also find you quite doctrine/knowledge-oriented, and judge right and wrong by doctrine. Is that what you are saying in, “He is the only voice I will follow so if you or any other speaks words that are not of the true shepherd I will not follow, but if the words are from God I will.” That should go without saying for any believer, yet many there are who have followed the enemy, thinking they are sincerely following the Lord. How do you judge for yourself, by yourself? Many believe our words not to be of God and few do. Who is right, why and how?
Are you interested in receiving our IOLs (The Issues of Life)? It is a bi-weekly publication of about a five-minute read, dealing with all kinds of real life issues with real people, as I told you. I think you even said you were possibly interested in expressing yourself. While I cannot guarantee publishing what you have to say (there are far many more writing than we can publish), we do answer every person as soon as we can.
I would not mind hearing from David, your husband as well. I would like to hear his story and more from you folks. You also mentioned George Warnock and learning under him. I would not mind reading some of what you have written as well. Do you have it on computer? Would you be able to send it?
Thank you again for writing, Denise. The Lord’s will be done.
Denise’s second letter:
We have read most of your writings. We agree on about 75 % of them.
We were so shocked that you would have such truth on so many things but be totally blinded on women. The Jewish oral law taught that all women should shut up, and then Jesus comes along and opens their mouths by giving Mary the first message of the Ressurrection to the frightened male diciples. Why did Jesus appear first to a women after his glorious ressurrection? Because the status of women by the Jewish teachers was grieving the heart of God. Jesus always reached out to the oppressed and resisted the proud.
When Rome took over and with it’s Pagan beliefs it pushed women back into silence. Women were not allowed to even vote until recently. If the Body of Christ consists of one Spirit, How dare you divide up the Spirit of God. We were shocked of how you misinterpretted Scriptures on this matter. We are sorry that you were so hurt by a women that the truth of God is veiled concerning this. When God’s time comes to remove a veil from his word, nothing can hinder the fulfullment of his will.
Paul when writing to the Corinthian in (1 Cor.14-34,35 never wrote those words as a commandment of the Lord, but was quoting what the Judaizers in the Corinthian Church were saying. It is not permitted for women to speak as also saith the law. But this cannot refer to the Old Testament because there is no such scripture. It was the Oral Law of the Jews that wanted to bring Christianity back within the confines of their beliefs. The words “as saith the law ” refers to the Jewish Oral Law which did teach the silencing of women. The Talmud also taught that it was a shame for a women to let her voice be heard among men.
Paul had said earlier in the letter to Corinth that all should prophecy. A little historical evidance ought to go a long way. Check it out. Remember there are no puncuation Marks in the Greek. We agree that most men are cowards and refuse to seek the Lord for themselves, letting the wives do the spiritual work for them, but don’t silence the voice of Christ in them, for you will gireve the heart of God. The Jews in Jesus time said that women must not learn, but we see Mary at
the feet of Jesus learning. Jesus did not rebuke her as a good Jewish Rabbi would. No, instead he approves of it by saying in Luke 10-42 that she has chosen the good part that would not be taken away from her. Satan has tried to take it away from her, but the Lord is faithful to that promise and women are still sitting at his feet and learning. Yes, the serpent did seduce Eve, but Adam chose to disobey God.
God calls his body the Church a women, a place where His Spirit lives. He calls the old nature within us ” a MAN of Sin.” May God open your eyes Victor to see that the Spirit dwells in both man and woman without measure. We take our instrucions from the Spirit of Christ not from the Spirit of a man who is wounded by his past. It would be best to discontinue any more dialogue between us. Because you have such a negative interpretation of women in Christ it would be senseless for Denise to share her writings, dreams and visions with you for you would gladly rend them to pieces. Read 1 Peter 3-7 heirs together.
From Dave and Denise Sommerville
Paul replied to Denise:
Greetings in the living and true Lord Jesus Christ, David and Denise, Paul Cohen here, brother and fellow servant of the Lord with Victor,
You are in great confusion about what we believe and teach. Regarding women, you have misinterpreted what has been said, and have added things that were not said. What a tangled mess!
As a witness to Victor’s personal life for 27 years, I must tell you that you are altogether off track regarding what you have said about him, and where he is coming from. Will you be willing to listen to our testimony of the truth, not based on surmisings, but the work of God in our lives, and the foundation of Scriptural revelations and teachings in Christ? Presently you are far from being able to do so, having no love of the truth. Nevertheless, truth is no respecter of persons, and He will have His way with all.
I am sure Victor will answer your mistaken notions about what he has written. I would like to address your errors of interpretation of Scripture, which are not small or without adverse consequences. Indeed, you are found to be worshipping strange gods. Thus far you have preferred illicit and false knowledge to wholesome and godly teaching. We can see that your chosen delusions are extracting a large price from you. What’s worse, you’re puffed up in knowledge so as to become offensive towards us in order to defend yourselves, cutting yourself off from receiving any correction for good. This isn’t the way of Christ or His body.
You say things that aren’t at all substantiated by Scripture or the Spirit of truth, such as, “Why did Jesus appear first to a women after his glorious ressurrection? Because the status of women by the Jewish teachers was grieving the heart of God.” Here you give pure conjecture as fact, whereas it is false knowledge, which has found fertile soil in your souls because of bitterness and envy. Led by your hurts and lusts, you swallow, “hook, line, and sinker,” what is entirely without basis or support from Scripture or even plain reason. I will show you:
Number one, God never said He was grieved by the way the false Jewish teachers (Pharisees, etc…), or otherwise, treated women. There was not one word spoken to that effect. Not one. Find it, and show it to us, otherwise, let us deal with facts.
We know that God has not been silent on issues of sin and unbelief coming from those that claim to be His people. On the contrary, we hear of many things that God was grieved with regarding the ways of those who were there presumably to teach and lead Israel. The Bible is a record of His grievances against man. Consider these word, so contrary to your complaint:
“As for My people, children are their taskmasters, and women rule over them. Oh my people, your rulers cause you to go astray and destroy the way of your paths” (Isaiah 3:12 MKJV).
So, why is it that we do not hear Jesus once ever saying anything to anyone about the way women were being treated? He spoke many things, pointedly, but not once did He rebuke the Jews for the way they treated women. Not once. (Nor did He rebuke the women for the way they behaved towards men. This whole preoccupation with “inequality” and “the battle of the sexes” comes from a victim mentality. Read Victims and Perpetrators.)
Number two, what do the teachings of the false (Jewish teachers who rejected Christ) have to do with what God demonstrated to His disciples after His resurrection? Was He trying to make a point to the false by appearing to Mary? Nowhere do we find God trying to impress the false in any manner, the way you suggest. Never. He didn’t appear to a single unbeliever after His resurrection. According to your carnal thinking, He should have done that, getting right in the faces of those calling for His death, and letting them know they were wrong about Him!
But He was not there to correct the unbelievers, at that time. He was there to correct the believers. You don’t know that because you’ve never been submitted to His correction. You aren’t His children, nor do you believe. You are knowledge-seekers, not lovers of the Tree of Life, which gives the true knowledge of God.
Jesus, confirming His resurrection, was there to teach and lead His disciples, but said nothing to them about women. And if He was, without saying anything, trying to make the point you suggest, then why did He not choose women as apostles? Why did He not make women apostles after His ascension, and send them out to preach? If what Jesus was doing with women was so radical and wrong according to the authorities of His day, how come not one Pharisee or Sadducee complained about this matter regarding Him, as they did with other matters, diligently scrounging for something with which to accuse Him regarding the Law of God? You cannot stand for very long on one leg, but you cannot stand at all on none.
There is no shame to men in that Jesus appeared to a woman after His resurrection. There is no glory to women that He did, either. There is no shame to women that men are given positions of authority in His body. There is no glory to men that this is so, either. None of us merits glory, but the carnal man desires it, claims it, and is miffed when he (or she) does not get it. The carnal man is divisive in his self-serving lust, looking at things as you do, pitting one sex against the other, or one people against the other, for recognition and self-glory. When done in the Name of Christ, as you do it here, it is particularly loathsome. There is hardly anything as repulsive and abominable in the sight of God.
Sin is driving your petulance, as it does with all who live (and die) by their carnal lusts. You don’t care one whit about the Lord. You’re not complaining to us on His behalf, but your own. That’s why you want to have nothing to do with us – because you don’t love Him, only yourselves.
You have no use either, for His Scriptures, except to serve your self-pity and self-glorification. In contrast, here’s what is written about the true glory and wholesome relationship that is found in men and women of God:
“For it is not right for a man to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man did not come from the woman, but the woman from the man. And the man was not made for the woman, but the woman for the man” (1 Corinthians 11:7-9 BBE).
You have made your own god, which is there to glorify you. Naturally, you hate the real and true God, Who doesn’t allow for worship of any other gods or give His glory to another.
Abusing the Scriptures further, you write:
“Paul when writing to the Corinthian in (1 Cor.14-34,35 never wrote those words as a commandment of the Lord, but was quoting what the Judaizers in the Corinthian Church were saying. It is not permitted for women to speak as also saith the law. But this cannot refer to the Old Testament because there is no such scripture.”
It is an amazing thing how those deceived by devils can, with straight face and utmost sincerity, blatantly contradict the Scriptures. Paul wasn’t referring to what the false said about women. Here’s what he did say:
“Let your women be silent in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak, but to be in subjection, as the Law also says. And if they desire to learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home; for it is a shame for a woman to speak in a church” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35 MKJV).
He plainly stated that women are to keep silent in the churches (but you don’t understand what this means, nor are you interested in knowing). He goes on to say that it is a shame for women to talk in the assembly. Is this not Paul speaking? Does he mention the false, or point out he is speaking the error of others? Not for a moment. On the contrary, he affirms what he has said – it is the Word of God, and His commandment (v. 36-37).
“Or did the Word of God go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a commandment of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 14:36-37 MKJV).
So where is the law in the “Old Testament” that says that women are to be under obedience? Is it not seen by you because you don’t want to see it. Paul speaks of this same law in 1 Timothy:
“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach, nor to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam first was formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, has come to be in transgression” (1 Timothy 2:11-14 EMTV).
Even before Eve was deceived, God declared that she was made to be a helper to Adam. God made Adam first, and spoke to him, not Eve. Eve was not made for God, but for Adam, coming from his own body. At that time, when Eve was deceived, God, Whose Word is Law, spoke this:
“To the woman He said, Great will be your pain in childbirth; in sorrow will your children come to birth; still your desire will be for your husband, but he will be your master” (Genesis 3:16 BBE).
Oh how the flesh does not like to hear that word – “master”! Man or woman, it does not matter. Men have rebelled against God, their Master, so they have women rebelling against their authority. It serves them right. It serves you right, David. You have been eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, which your wife has given you. You are both in death.
God amply confirmed His Word, which is Law, on what the position of woman is relative to man, inasmuch as we find that every ruler of Israel, every priest, every prophet sent to rebuke the people, was a man (except in one or two peculiar circumstances, which came as a result of sin). That is not to say women cannot prophesy, or be a prophetess, as you evilly surmise of us. Miriam was a prophetess, but she didn’t lead the people out of Egypt. Her brothers did.
Jewish oral law and the Talmud? Who cares? We have the rock solid testimony of God stretching over thousands of years contradicting your foolish assertion. We don’t consult with or give heed to the superstitions and unbelief of men. No such Law? Only the lawless say so!
Peter also confirms what Paul wrote, giving another witness to the Law:
“Wives, likewise, subject yourselves to your own husbands…as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, of whom you became children, when you do good and are not afraid of any terror” (1 Peter 3:1,6 EMTV).
Yes, women are co-heirs. We have the benefit of godly women amongst us, and we are thankful for it. By their very presence and spirit they rebuke your wicked thoughts and declarations. Do they minister? Yes, as by the Spirit of God, and the body is edified, strengthened, and unified, as one. You know nothing of His body, or Him, so these things are totally foreign to you.
You don’t differentiate between gifts and position. You don’t know what either of these mean, or are, in their legitimate and God-given perfection. We do know, having both, by His grace, and reaping the benefits. In rejecting God’s Headship and order, you have neither gift nor position. Your beef is not with us, but with Him. Because you reject Him, you reject us.
The wrath of God is on you because you are taking His Name in vain, spurning Him, His Law and His servants. You have now been told, and warned. Why continue on such a barren path, which destroys you with no hope? You need to seek the Lord with all your hearts, if it is not too late for you to turn from your ways, that He might have mercy and grant you repentance. You need a violent change of heart from your haughty presumption.
In Him, testifying of the Truth that the wicked can neither deny nor resist,
Hi David and Denise,
You certainly are jumping to several conclusions. Let us have an honest and reasonable discussion, shall we? The Scripture says:
“It’s stupid and embarrassing to give an answer before you listen” (Proverbs 18:13 CEV).
Let me ask you two some questions, and let us find out how honest you are and how able you are to humble yourselves when the facts are laid on the table and you find out you were falsely accusing.
One, you write, “Why did Jesus appear first to a women after his glorious ressurrection? Because the status of women by the Jewish teachers was grieving the heart of God.”
By what authority do you make that conclusion? It is a conclusion you have drawn but you produce no Biblical evidence for it. Are we to take your word for it?
Two, why would you assume that I would be ignorant of the fact that a woman was the first to see Him risen from the dead or that I would have a problem with it? Could you give me specifics as to my words and where you find contradiction or conflict between what I say and what you bring forth in this point? I am aware of no conflict there.
Three, you write, “Jesus always reached out to the oppressed and resisted the proud.”
Why do you write this? What have I said specifically to give you the impression I would disagree with those words and principles? You have come out with your fists up but with no facts, no specifics, no evidence – only opinion, accusations, and frankly, railing. Is that what the Lord would have you do? Is this the way you conduct yourself with everyone? Give me specific charges with specific evidence, please.
Four, why do you speak of Rome? What have I to do with it? What specifically is it I have said that agrees with Rome?
Five, what have I said about women’s right to vote?
Six, how is it that I “divide the Spirit of God”? And how is it you dare accuse me of such? Again, specifics, substance, and not emotional accusations, please.
Seven, You write, “We were shocked of how you misinterpretted Scriptures on this matter.” Have I done so, or is it that I say things that are contrary to your interpretation of Scripture and of what I am saying? Who are you to accuse without the facts, false accusers?
You condemn me but don’t tell me what specifically is my error or sin? Even in the world, one expects the facts and the evidence, and not simply judgmental railing.
Eight, you say, “We are sorry that you were so hurt by a women that the truth of God is veiled concerning this.” Do you know this? Are you not speculating and opining? Do you really know? What right do you have to condemn someone with mere opinion? And you call yourself a “Christian”?
Nine, you write, “When God’s time comes to remove a veil from his word, nothing can hinder the fulfullment of his will.” If that is so, and if the Word is hidden from me, then it is up to Him to remove the veil, and according to you, when He does, I will see, and not until then. Is that not so, according to you? So why are you railing on me if indeed I am helplessly blind? You contradict yourself.
Ten, you write, “Paul when writing to the Corinthian in (1 Cor.14-34,35 never wrote those words as a commandment of the Lord, (my emphasis) but was quoting what the Judaizers in the Corinthian Church were saying,” and you write, “The words ‘as saith the law ‘ refers to the Jewish Oral Law which did teach the silencing of women.”
Is that so? Then why just after those words does Paul write this?
“Or did the Word of God go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks to be a prophet, or a spiritual one, let him recognize the things I write to you, that they are a commandment of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 14:36-37 MKJV).
Who are we to believe, Paul, an apostle who wrote nearly a third of the New Testament by revelation from Jesus Christ or David and Denise Sommerville? Are we to believe the Word of God, the Bible, or you?
Your letter is riddled with error. You do not believe the Scriptures, do you? You make a liar of Paul and of God, according to your interpretations. Why quote the Scriptures to defend your arguments if they are not trustworthy as the Word of God?
Eleven, you say of Paul’s words that, “It was the Oral Law of the Jews that wanted to bring Christianity back within the confines of their beliefs.”
Are you trying to tell us that Paul was one of those Jews? Here is what he had to say about himself and former Jewish life (not that it appears you will believe it):
Philippians 3:2-11 MKJV
(2) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision party.
(3) For we are the circumcision who worship God in the spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh;
(4) though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other thinks that he has reason to trust in the flesh, I more.
(5) I was circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews. As regards the Law, I was a Pharisee;
(6) concerning zeal, persecuting the church; regarding the righteousness in the Law, blameless.
(7) But whatever things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
(8) But no, rather, I also count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them to be dung, so that I may win Christ
(9) and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness, which is of the Law, but through the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith,
(10) that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death;
(11) if by any means I might attain to the resurrection of the dead.
Do you believe those words, or is Paul a charlatan, or just more confused than you?
You greatly err. I have already shown you, according to Scripture, your contradiction in saying that Paul wasn’t speaking of the commandment of the Lord when it is declared otherwise in the very next verses.
You’re not aware that God and Moses had many more things to say that aren’t recorded in the Bible. Only certain matters were included, as God saw fit. This did not make any of His other words of none effect. Are you so foolish as to think that God only spoke what you find in the written Word?
Twelve, you write, “The Talmud also taught that it was a shame for a women to let her voice be heard among men.” So what does that have to do with me?
Thirteen, you write, “Paul had said earlier in the letter to Corinth that all should prophecy.” You also say, “Read 1 Peter 3-7 heirs together.” Why do you assume I have an argument with that? What have I said to counter that? However, why do you use those words even if I did have a problem with them, seeing Paul wrote some of them, and you have little use for other words Paul has written?
Fourteen, you write, “A little historical evidance ought to go a long way.”
What makes you think I am ignorant of “historical evidence” and you are not? However, I have heard countless arguments based on historical records, some helpful, much not. My trust is not in the traditions and historical records of men but in the Lord and His Word. Where is your trust? You say you only believe the Lord. I don’t think so. When Jesus referred to any authoritative writings, was it to historical record or was it to the Old Testament? We find many examples of His quoting the Bible, but never anything else. Your fruits are nasty, confused, and plainly antiScriptural. How can you deny it? You accuse, without substance, which shows what spirit you follow.
Fifteen, you write, “We agree that most men are cowards and refuse to seek the Lord for themselves, letting the wives do the spiritual work for them, but don’t silence the voice of Christ in them, for you will gireve the heart of God.”
I said nothing about men being cowards (not that some are not), so how can you agree with me? Whose writings have you been reading anyway? Are you sure you got the right site? Quoting my words specifically would help, don’t you think?
As to silencing wives or women, where in any of my writing can you find any evidence that I am doing so? Your accusations are based on conclusions you have irresponsibly drawn of your own imaginations, David. The result is false accusation and demonstrating your utter foolishness.
Sixteen, you write, “The Jews in Jesus time said that women must not learn, but we see Mary at the feet of Jesus learning. Jesus did not rebuke her as a good Jewish Rabbi would. No, instead he approves of it by saying in Luke 10-42 that she has chosen the good part that would not be taken away from her. Satan has tried to take it away from her, but the Lord is faithful to that promise and women are still sitting at his feet and learning.”
Again, you spout foolishness. What did I say that would leave you with the impression I disapprove of women learning? How darkened is your mind!
Seventeen, you write, “God calls his body the Church a women, a place where His Spirit lives. He calls the old nature within us ‘a MAN of Sin.’”
It is to the man of sin that I now write, David, and I know it, and in Christ, am destroying him with the truth. As Paul wrote to the Thessalonians:
“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 MKJV).
The term, “man” in that expression “man of sin” is a general one, referring to all humankind, including women, don’t you agree, or do you not know? Besides, Paul spoke or used those words. Do you use his words only as you please? Is his word to be trusted? You seem to have this thing about women. Those who worshipped the queen of heaven had the same problem.
Also consider, seeing you wish to diminish the relative, God-given status of men, and defend women without understanding or reason, that the harlot church is known as a woman, Mystery Babylon, the Mother of harlots. And what does it say of her? Read, my confused friend:
“And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all those who were slain on the earth” (Revelation 18:24 MKJV).
You, David and Denise, are members in particular of that woman, and not of the Body of Christ, as you presume. You are feeding from devils.
Furthermore, there was only one woman who sat as queen in Israel. Her name was Athaliah. Read all about her. As for one of the most wicked kings in Israel, if not the most wicked, Ahab, he was fueled by none other than Jezebel, who happens to be…a woman.
Eighteen, you say, “May God open your eyes Victor to see that the Spirit dwells in both man and woman without measure.”
God has an order, as decreed in Scripture. Seeing you take it upon yourself to be a champion of women, how is it that Jesus Christ, Who was supposed to have emancipated women as you suggest, was so chauvinistic as to appoint not one female apostle? Why is it that all elders and bishops and deacons were to be the husbands of one wife (1 Tim 3; Titus 1)? How is it that you do not believe the Scriptures, yet use them as you please, with rambling and railing, accusing servants of God without substance? David, you both are very foolish and ignorant.
Nineteen, you write, “We take our instrucions from the Spirit of Christ not from the Spirit of a man who is wounded by his past.”
I know otherwise, David, and the Lord has revealed your spirits to me.
Twenty, you write, “It would be best to discontinue any more dialogue between us. Because you have such a negative interpretation of women in Christ it would be senseless for Denise to share her writings, dreams and visions with you for you would gladly rend them to pieces.”
So you have found yet another trumped-up excuse to go the way of the rebel of the universe and to do your own thing. You “agree on 75%” but decide to go your way because of “25%,” as if it was all about doctrine, without any decent attempt to try to learn or teach or reach or reason. You accuse, without any substance and leave, just like that. You are full of rebellion and fear, and it is anything but the fear of God. How confused you are! And you pay dearly for it.
You are in your sins, and refuse to receive the truth. Therefore are you prey to the enemy and serving him. It is not the Lord that you heed, or from Him that you feed. The Lord Jesus Christ, Whom I serve, has given me a vision of you two. Here is the record of it:
DAVID AND DENISE SOMMERVILLE EATING FROM THOSE SERVING SNACKS
On March 1, 2006, I called Denise Sommerville at her used bookstore, Denise’s Books ‘n Stuff, asking her for Hislop’s Two Babylons. We got to talking, found some common ground in doctrines, and on March 7, she sent me her testimony. I replied with some writings and received a surprisingly defensive and offensive reaction. In pondering the situation, I saw this vision:
Two upper middle-aged persons, whom I knew to be Denise and David (her husband), were walking around on a desolate piece of ground. The place seemed dismal, as though it was dusk. He was in the foreground with her following a few feet behind him. They were facing toward me though not looking at me because here and there, all around them were a few beings that were serving them “treats” or snacks on round trays while passing by, much like servers pass out drinks on trays to guests standing around at some social occasion.
The Sommervilles were focused on the snack trays. The servers were about four feet tall, slim, and dressed in colorful, satin (smooth, shiny) snug fitting clothing, like jumpsuits. They had sly smiles on their faces and were there to entice and entertain.
The man I saw in the foreground helping himself to the dainties was balding, with glasses (I think), and the woman behind him seemed to be of similar age, also with glasses (not sure), helping herself to dainties served to her on a tray from another one of these creatures. The creature serving David was in red.
Both David and Denise had troubled, or perplexed expressions. Their sickly countenances told of hardships, which I suspected to be the result of having partaken of the dainties for some time. It seemed they were wondering, doubting, troubled – all the while partaking of the treats which the creatures were serving them.
These creatures were impish, with fiendish expressions, serving the Sommervilles what I knew to be evil fare, though not at all apparent. Indeed, their “guests” were taking what was offered them because it was tantalizing and free. (The dainties were lies, poisonous doctrines and devilish notions.) However, it didn’t seem that David and Denise were particularly enjoying what they were eating, which was a curious thing, seeing they were helping themselves consistently. END
Twenty one, in your testimony, you say you had two parties in your house, Denise. One, the JWs, told you Jesus Christ was not God. The other, the Alliance pastor, told you Jesus Christ is God, pointing you to Scripture. So what do you do? You throw them both out. You are a selfish, wicked woman, and you David, are no better. You feed from devils.
Twenty-two. You have a store. In the display window, I see a book, which, on its cover, advertises “lust, violence…” Your store is full of vile things. Your reason, Denise? “We wanted a Christian bookstore but would be out of business, getting about one Christian a week.” So it is all about “business,” is it? Mammon? Or is it about “making a living,” any way you can? And now you say you want to sell the store because of the kind of stuff you “have” to sell. Who should be buying the store? Another Christian? Or should you make your devilish testimony complete by being a wonderful witness unto the Lord Jesus Christ by pawning a patently “spiritual,” “Christlike” business with “Christlike” inventory on the “heathen”?
Satan is your lord and master. No need to hear your visions and dreams. I had one for you, showing me the source of yours. You need to repent, big time.
Contending earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints,
Denise’s third letter, with David this time:
Hello Victor & Paul, As children of the Kingdom we rejoice in our Lord Jesus Christ. We have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ that no man gave us and none shall take away. Our Savior was rejected and insulted by the religious
elite of His day. Praying for those who persecute us is our victory. “For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (I Thessalonians 5:9).” We choose to speak blessings – not curses. We
do this for the righteous and for the lost. Jesus said, “Blessed are you when men reproach you and persecute you and speak against you every kind of evil, falsely, for my sake, Then be glad and rejoice, for your reward is increased
in heaven … (Matthew 5:11-12).” We pray a blessing upon you both.
Victor’s final reply:
David and Denise,
Deny what you will to your peril, I know what the Lord has shown us of you. Shall we believe the Lord Jesus Christ or men? Did you speak blessings to us in your second letter? Hardly! Now you send another without substance or facts, only sickly, sweet, soppy, religious, and Biblical platitudes. You people are devilish hypocrites who make a mockery of all that is good and true. Now you accuse us of insults. How wicked! Die then in your sins, filling them up to the full. Your intimate relationship is with “another Jesus,” and tragically, it is indeed intimate, so much so that you will not listen to the truth about yourselves. Your dainties servers have done an effective job.
You would not dare try to put legs to your “prayer of blessings” on us. That is because your entire spiritual stance is a sham. You are cringing cowards, defiling your piece of the earth. You accused us of many falsehoods, without a shred of justification, now you are unrepentant, and you say you choose to speak blessings on us? Liars and hypocrites you are…religious copycat freaks who know nothing but pretentious demonic niceties in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the One Who gave Himself for you and for all, and Who was raised from the dead triumphant over those demons that possess you by your choice. (You love these “curses” don’t you? It helps to make you feel so persecuted and spiritual, does it not, “confirming” that you have taken the right path?)
Bless the Lord and to the pit with you devils that deceive and bind, spreading your delusions and scorning the love of God and His Truth.
The Sommervilles didn’t write back.