Cutting
to the Chase
After we sent her an introduction to The Issues of Life, Pam Dewey
gave us this reply:
I’m not sure where you got my email address. But this is to
notify you that I would not be interested in being included in your
email list. Thank you for removing my name.
Pam Dewey
**********
They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength
They shall mount up with wings as eagles (Isa 40:31)
**********
Visit Pam’s “Field Guide to the Wild World of Religion” website
http://www.isitso.org/guide
For tamer topics, visit Pam’s “Oasis” website
http://www.youall.com/oasis
Paul’s reply:
Hi Pam,
I found your address while doing some research on the web about the
accuracy
of Hal Lindsey’s predictions and interpretations of Scripture.
When I found
your site, I appreciated the thought, clarity of expression, and effort
that
went into it.
One thing in particular and of note about your site is that you are
long on
defining what is wrong, but short on defining what is right. I understand
you wish to leave that between God and the reader. However, the very
purpose
for which God raises up His ministers is to address what is wrong by
giving
people firstly what is right, without prevarication or opinion. That
is the
nature and substance of a true ministry from God. I do not see that
you
recognize or acknowledge this, or would know it if you saw it. The
way you
address things leaves it at every man for himself. That is not enough
or the
way of the Lord Jesus, the great Shepherd of the sheep. Men are responsible
to listen to those God sends as though it were God Himself
in Christ that appeared
before them. Consider the words of our Lord and Savior:
“Behold, your house is left to you desolate: and truly I say
to you, You
shall not see Me, until the time comes when you shall say, Blessed
is he
that comes in the Name of the Lord” (Luke 13:35).
If someone like Paul, or John the Baptist, or any apostle or prophet
of God
came to you today, you would, push come to shove, lump them in with
your
cults. I would be glad to be proven wrong in this, delighted in fact.
We have a ministry and calling from the Lord Jesus Christ, as others
like
those I just mentioned have had, and are not ashamed or afraid to say
so. This is
why I sent you an introductory letter to The Issues of Life, so that
you
might also hear what the Lord is giving us today.
You do not, however, recognize Him coming in others, in the flesh
here and
now. This is because you are worshipping a historical Christ. This
is not
good enough, Pam. You know Him after the flesh:
“Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yes, though
we have
known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more” (2
Corinthians 5:16).
I submit to you a writing from our website, called Are
We a Cult?,
which
should be of interest to you.
We welcome your correspondence and scrutiny.
Paul Cohen
Pam’s answer (in orange within Paul’s letter):
Paul: Hi Pam,
I found your address while doing some research on the web about the
accuracy of Hal Lindsey’s predictions and interpretations of
Scripture. When I found your site, I appreciated the thought, clarity
of expression, and effort that went into it.
One thing in particular and of note about your site is that you are
long on defining what is wrong, but short on defining what is right.
Pam: That is not the purpose of *that particular* site. It is not
an evangelism outreach.
Paul: I understand you wish to leave that between God and the reader.
However, the very purpose for which God raises up His ministers is
to address what is wrong by giving people firstly what is right, without
prevarication or opinion. That is the nature and substance of a true
ministry from God.
Pam: That may be the nature
of a true ministry, but not necessarily the nature of ONE tiny portion
of a ministry represented by one website.
You know absolutely nothing about what I do with the rest of my time.
:-) And you know absolutely nothing of how the Field Guide came to
be. You could have asked, instead of jumping me, but you seem too eager
to try to “set people straight” to listen first.
Paul: I do not see that you recognize or acknowledge this, or would
know it if you saw it. The way you address things leaves it at every
man for himself.
Pam: No, if a reader is honest,
and he or she has been trapped in a group, which is hampering their
ability to seek for God and listen
to Him, because the group or teacher has been using deceptive or abusive
methods to keep them in spiritual bondage, it will not leave him “every
man for himself.” It will set him free for him to be in GOD’S
hands, for Him to reach him and draw him to Himself. In part through
the efforts of evangelism. Which is done by myself and others in many
other ways in many other places. I have received many emails from people
who have been to my site who have been helped by it to get free and
begin seeking a one-on-one relationship with their Savior instead of
one mediated by other men.
Paul: If someone like Paul, or John the Baptist, or any apostle or
prophet of God came to you today, you would, push come to shove, lump
them in with your cults. I would be glad to be proven wrong in this,
delighted in fact.
Pam: I would be glad for you
to give any evidence you are *right*. :-) Do you really believe that
Paul would exhibit the characteristics
of a Benny Hinn or an Ellen G White? I don’t.
Paul: We have a ministry and calling from the Lord Jesus Christ, as
others like those I mentioned have had, and are not ashamed or afraid
to say so. This is why I sent you an introductory letter to The
Issues of Life, so that you might also hear what the Lord is giving us today.
Pam: There are many, many, many thousands of folks sending out what
they believe the Lord is giving them. I do not have the time to investigate
all of them. Although you would likely be astonished at how many of
them I do receive information from and cooperate with. I participate
on seven internet forums and receive numerous email newsletters. One
person can only absorb so much information without overload. I read
hundreds of messages every day, and respond to scores. You did not
give me any reason that I ought to include your newsletter in that
overload. And this email you sent me does not convince me of that either.
After getting your original offer, I did a search
on your name and Victor’s name on the web. I only found them
together twice. Am I correct in assuming the web-based portion of
your ministry is just
getting off the ground?
Paul: You do not, however, recognize Him coming in others, in the
flesh here and now. This is because you are worshipping a historical
Christ. This is not good enough, Pam. You know Him after the flesh.
Pam: See, this is why I have
a problem with the kind of unsolicited messages such as yours. You
know NOTHING about how I worship, nor how
I know Christ. You are jumping to conclusions. And are totally condescending
to someone you don’t even know. This is *not* the way of Paul,
John the Baptist or Jesus. It is possible to speak what you know without
lumping others into a “strawman” of your own making.
For instance, there is a “rebuttal” of an article that
Victor wrote about Xmas on one website. I see that Victor (and I assume
you) are against the celebration of Xmas, noting that folks would be
worshipping Jesus “after the flesh” if they kept Xmas.
I am assuming perhaps you have lumped me in with those folks.
If so, you would be incorrect. I have not observed Xmas since 1965.
And you are welcome to read why in an article I wrote back in 1990
that is on one of my OTHER websites.
http://youall.com/oasis/reason1.htm
In fact, you are welcome to read a whole lot
more about what I DO know, if you’d like. It’s on my
Oasis website.
http://www.youall.com/oasis
Perhaps you might find that you are not the
only ones who may have some of God’s truth. :-)
Paul: I submit to you a writing from our website, called Are
We a Cult?, which should be of interest to you.
Pam: I had a look, and I see
there are likely other subjects about which you’ve jumped to conclusions about me. For instance ...
is all flesh good for food? I don’t think so ... and haven’t,
for instance, eaten pork or shellfish since 1965. Why?
http://www.youall.com/oasis/unclean.htm
Perhaps you might find it of passing interest
that I also keep the weekly Sabbath ... both physically, and with
the True Rest found only
in Jesus. And no, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist. Nor am I affiliated
with any historical “denomination.”
Just in passing, I note the following in the essay on your site about
the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
“I know those who have the Spirit and those who don’t,
in other words, those who are His and those who aren’t by whether
they ‘hear’ me or not, by whether they understand me in
the basics of the things of God or not (I John 4:6). “
You SEEM to have jumped to a conclusion about
whether I have the Holy Spirit or not--NOT based on whether I “understand you in the
basics” ... since you didn’t even dialogue with me yet.
But rather based on some incorrect conclusions you made about what
I MIGHT know or not know. You have accused me, a complete stranger,
of “knowing Jesus after the flesh.”
This does not give evidence of maturity in the things of the Spirit.
It does, as a matter of fact, SEEM to give evidence of arrogance. I
am sure that is not your intent, but it is how it comes across.
I hope this is not the way you usually attempt to operate in your
Gifts. You seem very zealous and sincere. I commend you for that. But
it might be good to temper that with more patience in dealing with
strangers. :-)
Pam
Paul’s reply, in blue within Pam’s reply to his note:
Paul: Pam, I will follow suit and reply within the
letter as you have, this time with text in blue. Your reply is still
in orange print and my original letter is left in plain black.
Paul #1: Hi Pam,
I found your address while doing some research on the web about the
accuracy of Hal Lindsey’s predictions and interpretations of
Scripture. When I found your site, I appreciated the thought, clarity
of expression, and effort that went into it.
One thing in particular and of note about your site is that you are
long on defining what is wrong, but short on defining what is right.
Pam: That is not the purpose of *that particular* site. It is not
an evangelism outreach.
Paul: I was not thinking that you were presenting yourself as an evangelist.
However, I understand and accept your point that the web site in question
is not such an outreach. As I mentioned at the outset, I appreciate
much of what you have presented there. If we could start again, what
I would like to say here, and want to emphasize in this letter, is
that the Kingdom of God is not in meat or drink, whether physical or
doctrinal, but in the fellowship of walking in the light as He is in
the light. That is Jesus Christ come in the flesh.
There is certainly a connection between doing
physical things as a result of walking with and believing on the
Lord, but there is no guarantee
that because we do certain physical things, or believe certain doctrines,
that we are walking in the Spirit or with the Lord. As exhibit “A,” we
have the Pharisees, who had many correct doctrines, and did many correct
things, but did not receive or believe on the living and present Son
of God. They denied Him and sought for His death, to protect their
own form of godliness and righteousness, which was based, after all,
in letter, on the Scriptures.
Paul #1: I understand you wish to leave that between God and the
reader. However, the very purpose for which God raises up His ministers
is to address what is wrong by giving people firstly what is right,
without prevarication or opinion. That is the nature and substance
of a true ministry from God.
Pam: That may be the nature
of a true ministry, but not necessarily the nature of ONE tiny portion
of a ministry represented by one website.
You know absolutely nothing about what I do with the rest of my time.
:-) And you know absolutely nothing of how the Field Guide came to
be. You could have asked, instead of jumping me, but you seem too eager
to try to “set people straight” to listen first.
Paul: Pam, get this: You are
saying that I don’t much know about
you, so how can I be making any conclusions about you; yet you don’t
know what I know, so how can you be making any conclusions about what
I am doing? The truth of the matter is that I know far more about you
than you realize. The problem, or obstacle, for you in understanding
this is that you are looking at things from an earthly plane. While
I know full well you will acknowledge there is a spiritual plane,
you have not entered into that dimension
to walk in it or understand it yourself. What I know about
you is not gained from reading your materials alone, but from reading
your materials and knowing the Lord
Who is with me, and has exercised me in the discernment of the spirits
of men.
His purpose in doing this is not for me to “jump” people,
unless speaking the truth straightforwardly is “jumping,” of
which Jesus, John the Baptist, and the apostles all are guilty, as
is recorded for us in Scripture. Stephen “jumped” the crowd
he was speaking to and was promptly stoned for it. According to your
reasoning, what gave Stephen the right to conclude what he did about
where those people
were coming
from? What did he know specifically and individually about them? But
he knew them after the Spirit. The only right we have, which is more
of a duty and responsibility, is to believe and speak the truth for
God’s sake, and thereby for the sake of all. The “jumping” done
by the saints, by the Lord Himself and in my letter here to you, is
for good, not evil, and which you ultimately will find to be right
on mark.
Paul #1: I do not see that you recognize or acknowledge this, or would
know it if you saw it. The way you address things leaves it at every
man for himself.
Pam: No, if a reader is honest,
and he or she has been trapped in a group, which is hampering their
ability to seek for God and listen
to Him, because the group or teacher has been using deceptive or abusive
methods to keep them in spiritual bondage, it will not leave him “every
man for himself.” It will set him free for him to be in GOD’S
hands, for Him to reach him and draw him to Himself. In part through
the efforts of evangelism. Which is done by myself and others in many
other ways in many other places. I have received many emails from people
who have been to my site who have been helped by it to get free and
begin seeking a one-on-one relationship with their Savior instead of
one mediated by other men.
Paul: Many people leave abusive organizations and are anything but
free. Many of those you have reached with your information, which I
fully acknowledge has truth and can be helpful, have not been set free
at all. Yes, they may have left the organization, but within them their
sin nature has not been dealt with. That is what is needed for salvation.
That is why I write you, because you are falling short of salvation
yourself, and need to know it. I say that not based on what doctrines
you believe, or practices you maintain, but by an inner knowledge and
revelation of the Lord, which you lack, and need to have.
There was a woman who came to us from the House
of Yahweh. She came out of the group as a result of those things
we told her that made
it clear that the will of God, and His ways, were entirely different
than the House of Yahweh’s ways. However, coming out of the House
of Yahweh was not enough. Leaving the false is never enough. There
must be an embrace of and cleaving to the True, which is the Lord Himself
(not doctrines). This woman was not willing or able to obey the Lord
in those things He specifically required of her, though in some instances
she would be, at her determination. However, it is a matter of all
being laid down, the will and right to oneself above all.
One may come out of the harlot church, Mystery,
Babylon the Great, but what is needed is that the harlot church is
removed from within
the person, otherwise he or she takes that false church and its spirit,
even its false doctrines, with him or her. What is needed is God’s
miraculous deliverance. We speak His Word of Truth, which
begins to effect
that change, if the hearers believe.
Victor saw this woman from House of Yahweh in a vision wherein she
held a heavy chain in her hands, yet was declaring that she was free.
Clearly she was not free, nor did leaving the House of Yahweh deal
with her independence from God. That was not enough, neither is the
keeping of the Sabbath, nor eating clean foods, nor so many other ordinances,
which she presently keeps. The rich young ruler kept all those too.
The Jews kept those while taking down the body of Christ to keep the
Sabbath. They hurried to keep the Passover, while they removed the
Lamb of God they had slain!
It is error to think that if people do this
or that, no matter how good or necessary this or that may seem, they
are saved. Salvation
comes by enduring to the end in the taking up of your cross and following
Him through death and resurrection. Only those who have gone on that
path themselves, and are sent by Him to minister in it, can help
and guide people in such a way. We are of such. That is not to say
that there is not a place for what you do.
Paul #1: If someone like Paul, or John the Baptist, or any apostle
or prophet of God came to you today, you would, push come to shove,
lump them in with your cults. I would be glad to be proven wrong in
this, delighted in fact.
Pam: I would be glad for you
to give any evidence you are *right*. :-) Do you really believe that
Paul would exhibit the characteristics
of a Benny Hinn or an Ellen G White? I don’t.
Paul: I do not question that you can recognize some of the false,
as many also can and do, many of those not even professing any faith
whatsoever. What I am saying is that you do not recognize the true,
which is essential for salvation.
Paul #1: We have a ministry and calling from the Lord Jesus Christ,
as others like those I mentioned have had, and are not ashamed or afraid
to say so. This is why I sent you an introductory letter to The Issues
of Life, so that you might also hear what the Lord is giving us today.
Pam: There are many, many, many thousands of folks sending out what
they believe the Lord is giving them. I do not have the time to investigate
all of them. Although you would likely be astonished at how many of
them I do receive information from and cooperate with. I participate
on seven internet forums and receive numerous email newsletters. One
person can only absorb so much information without overload. I read
hundreds of messages every day, and respond to scores. You did not
give me any reason that I ought to include your newsletter in that
overload. And this email you sent me does not convince me of that either.
Paul: It does not matter to
us whether you receive our letters, for our sake. It does matter
to you, because while there are thousands
who give things they believe the Lord has given them, there are precious
few who are sent by Him. You recognize that some are false, which is
perhaps more than Billy Graham would publicly acknowledge, but, again,
my point to you is that you do not recognize the true. There was only
one Lord Jesus Christ in His day when He came to be sacrificed for
us. What good would it do to recognize and declare that the Essenes
and Sadducees were wrong, if you did not recognize and follow Him?
There were about 400 prophets that the King of Israel brought before
Jehoshaphat when requested that they inquire of the Lord. Then the
King of Judah asked if there was not a prophet of the Lord besides,
that they might enquire of him. Why do you not recognize, as did Jehoshaphat,
whether one is sent of God or not?
Pam: After getting your original
offer, I did a search on your name and Victor’s name on the
web. I only found them together twice. Am I correct in assuming the
web-based portion of your ministry is
just getting off the ground?
Paul: We have not done any
linking to search engines, and can’t
say what we will do there in the future. It is up to the Lord. We have
been sending The Issues of Life going on a year, though the site has
been operative for several. He will send the word forth to all places
it needs to go. We are committed to speak and believe what He gives
us, by His grace and power.
Paul #1: You do not, however, recognize Him coming in others, in the
flesh here and now. This is because you are worshipping a historical
Christ. This is not good enough, Pam. You know Him after the flesh.
Pam: See, this is why I have
a problem with the kind of unsolicited messages such as yours. You
know NOTHING about how I worship, nor how
I know Christ. You are jumping to conclusions. And are totally condescending
to someone you don’t even know. This is *not* the way of Paul,
John the Baptist or Jesus. It is possible to speak what you know without
lumping others into a “strawman” of your own making.
For instance, there is a “rebuttal” of an article that
Victor wrote about Xmas on one website. I see that Victor (and I assume
you) are against the celebration of Xmas, noting that folks would be
worshipping Jesus “after the flesh” if they kept Xmas.
I am assuming perhaps you have lumped me in with those folks.
If so, you would be incorrect. I have not observed Xmas since 1965.
And you are welcome to read why in an article I wrote back in 1990
that is on one of my OTHER websites.
http://youall.com/oasis/reason1.htm
In fact, your are welcome to read a whole lot
more about what I DO know, if you’d like. It’s on my
Oasis website.
http://www.youall.com/oasis
Perhaps you might find that you are not the
only ones who may have some of God’s truth. :-)
Paul: I think that I have already answered these things, Pam. We do
know and see you. It does not surprise us at all, with your background,
that you practice the things you do. It would be expected. We are not
unfamiliar with Armstrong, or many other things. We are not judging
you according to the appearance, however, but righteously, according
to the Spirit.
Paul #1: I submit to you a writing from our website, called Are
We a Cult?, which should be of interest to you.
Pam: I had a look, and I see
there are likely other subjects about which you’ve jumped to conclusions about me. For instance ...
is all flesh good for food? I don’t think so ... and haven’t,
for instance, eaten pork or shellfish since 1965. Why?
http://www.youall.com/oasis/unclean.htm
Perhaps you might find it of passing interest
that I also keep the weekly Sabbath ... both physically, and with
the True Rest found only
in Jesus. And no, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist. Nor am I affiliated
with any historical “denomination.”
Just in passing, I note the following in the essay on your site about
the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
“I know those who have the Spirit and those who don’t,
in other words, those who are His and those who aren’t by whether
they “hear” me or not, by whether they understand me in
the basics of the things of God or not (I John 4:6). “
You SEEM to have jumped to a conclusion about
whether I have the Holy Spirit or not--NOT based on whether I “understand you in the
basics” ... since you didn’t even dialogue with me yet.
But rather based on some incorrect conclusions you made about what
I MIGHT know or not know. You have accused me, a complete stranger,
of “knowing Jesus after the flesh.”
Paul: I would not call it an
accusation, but rather an observation. We do not condemn you for
this. We have also known the Lord after the
flesh. Paul wrote that though they all did, they should not know Him
this way any more (2 Corinthians 5:16).
Pam: This does not give evidence of maturity in the things of the
Spirit. It does, as a matter of fact, SEEM to give evidence of arrogance.
I am sure that is not your intent, but it is how it comes across.
Paul: We have been accused
of being arrogant. Men also found fault with Jesus for the things
He said of Himself and for His confidence
in God as He expressed it to others, often in telling them things they
did not like to hear. We do not, as you say, intend to come across
that way, but we do come across that way to some because we speak from
God. The natural man perceives it as an affront, particularly the religious
man who has taken the throne of God as spoken of in 2 Thessalonians
2. There can only be one authority, and when God speaks, the authority
of the man of sin is automatically judged. It cannot be any other way.
Pam: I hope this is not the
way you usually attempt to operate in your Gifts. You seem very zealous
and sincere. I commend you for that.
But it might be good to temper that with more patience in dealing with
strangers. :-)
Pam Paul: I am zealous, sincere, and, above all, right, Pam. I think you
can see here that I am also patient. I have not told you there is a
lack in your life in order to condemn you, but because you need to
know, and I am willing to yet say more, if you have the heart for it.
Paul
Pam’s reply:
“There is certainly a connection between
doing physical things as a result of walking with and believing on
the Lord, but there is
no guarantee that because we do certain physical things, or believe
certain doctrines, that we are walking in the Spirit or with the Lord.”
You are incorrect in your evident assumption that I think that there
is any guarantee connected to doing physical things or believing certain
doctrines to walking in the Spirit. You know nothing about my walk,
you only think you do. You believe you have revelation knowledge about
me. But we have a problem ... I also believe that I have revelation
knowledge. And it is contrary to yours. One of us is in error. You
think it is I, I am convinced it is you. Thus we are in a stalemate.
“It is error to think that if people do
this or that, no matter how good or necessary this or that may seem,
that they are saved.”
Of course it is error. You seem to think I do not know that. Which
tells me again that you are jumping to erroneous conclusions.
“Salvation comes by enduring to the end
in the taking up of your cross and following Him through death and
resurrection. Only those
who have gone on that path themselves, and are sent by Him to minister
in this, can help and guide people in such a way. We are of such. That
is not to say that there is not a place for what you do.”
Again, you know nothing of “what I do.” Except the little
bit you’ve seen on the Net. And thus you continue in jumping
to erroneous conclusions.
Thanks for the sincerity of your input. But I guess you’ll need
to shake the dust off your feet.
I am convinced that you have not, in any way, “judged righteously,” but
rather by appearances and false assumptions. Including false assumptions
about yourself. You are mistaking your own assumptions for “revelation.”
May God open your eyes some day to see that.
Pam
Paul’s reply:
Hi Pam,
I would like for us to continue this conversation. By no means am
I writing
you off, and I am willing to hear and understand the things you may
be
able to share with me in order to enlighten me. However, if you do
not wish to
continue, that is your decision. As for me, I am not satisfied that
this is
a good conclusion.
More importantly, though, what does the Lord have to say? Is it the
way of
the Lord for us as Christians to depart on such terms? Is this how
His body
is supposed to relate to one another? If you think that I am not part
of His
body, then it is perhaps understandable to walk away. But if you cannot,
or
do not have sufficient revelation to conclude this, should you be “wiping
the dust” from your feet now?
Please note what I did say to you, and what I did not. I did not say
you
are not a believer. I did say that there is more to the walk in the
Lord
Jesus Christ than what you presently preach and practice. If this is
not
true, then apparently I am the one missing something, and the one who
is
possibly in need of help or at least correction. If, on the other hand,
I am
correct, then there is much more for you, much more which is good and
will
eventually be the cause for much rejoicing. Either way, you certainly
have
nothing to prove to me or anyone else. You also have nothing to lose
if you
consider that what I say might be true. Think about it, would it be
bad if
you found out there is more to the walk of faith than what you have
experienced?
I am telling you things that I see can help you. Perhaps there is
a
better way to say them, or a better time. However, I must say that
I also
feel a sense of urgency from the Lord that now is the time to say the
things
that are hidden, to bring all things to light, as He gives us the
opportunity and inspiration to do so.
What do you say, Pam?
Paul | 
