Letter to Scott
On Tentmaker Forum, Scott (named "pneuma"
on forum) invited Paul to comment on his posts.
Paul's reply to Scott:
You invited me to consider your thoughts about my answers to those discussing
Deadly Error of the Universalists on Tentmaker forum. I appreciate
your offer and have done so. What follows is my
reply to your comments for me and to your commentary on the forum. I
would have posted this on the forum, but, as you know, I have been banned
Nevertheless, we will include this correspondence on our site for those
who would like to hear the answers and to be
edified by the Truth.
You took note that we have some common beliefs, and commented on
what I said in "The Deadly Error":
"So it seems to me he is a believer in the salvation
of all, but holds to a working out of that salvation in each and every
life by the principles
and requirements God has put forth in His word…."
How true! And doesn't that say it all? Jesus is Lord, and only by knowing
Him as such, in obedience to all things He requires, is His power
to save fulfilled in a person. As James wrote:
"But someone will say, 'One person has faith, another has actions.' My answer
is, 'Show me how anyone can have faith without actions. I will show you
my faith by my actions'" (James 2:18 GNB).
"So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence
only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with
fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12 EMTV).
I appreciate how you differentiated between what I was and was not saying
in the paper:
"You will note He does not state the deadly
error of Universalism, he states the deadly error OF
which is a BIG difference."
You also made this important point to those who accuse me of "knowing
but both myself and Craig if he was still here would tell you that we know
we do not know it all but put forth what we see as of right now."
What I have put forth is what I actually see (not think I see)
and know from God, nothing added. Like my Brother, Jesus, I speak what
the Father gives me, because I know His commandment is eternal life.
Some people on the forum have treated "judgment" like a dirty
word. There can be but one reason for that: They love their sins and
reject life. But God loves judgment, because through it He brings His
"Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate:
it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant
Joseph" (Amos 5:15 KJV).
Whoever rejects His judgment does not receive His grace.
Someone on the forum characterized what we preach as follows:
"Everyting that's a fraction different is 'deadly'"
Scott, you replied:
"I actually agree with that sentiment bro as there is only ONE truth,
and anytime mans view is in place you will find that fraction deadly. My
problem here would be if Paul C thinks he knows all the truth for scripture
itself tells us And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth
nothing yet as he ought to know.
But I am not sure Paul C is saying he knows everything,
if he indeed is then he would do well to heed the scripture I just posted."
You are right again: Anything that man interjects or removes from the
gospel of Christ is deadly. That is why Paul wrote as he did to the Galatians:
"But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what
we preached to you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8 MKJV).
You are wrong, however, in your interpretation and application of the
Scripture you quoted. How could servants of God not know "all the truth" regarding
the gospel of Christ and its real life application, when it is God Who
prepares and sends them to preach? He is the One testifying to men through
His chosen vessels:
"For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father Who speaks in
you" (Matthew 10:20 MKJV).
If this were not so, man would have no choice but to add or subtract
from the gospel, being dependent on his limited
human perspective to
represent God to those whom he teaches. Going without the Mind
of Christ, he couldn't
help but deviate and be accursed. But God does not work that way;
He properly equips and sustains His ministers who do His work:
"You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men, it
having been made plain that you are the epistle of Christ, ministered
by us, not having been written with ink, but with the Spirit of the living
God; not on tablets of stone, but in fleshly tablets of the heart.
And we have such trust through Christ toward God, not that we are sufficient
of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves, but our
sufficiency is of God; Who also has made us able ministers
of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for
the letter kills, but the Spirit makes alive" (2 Corinthians
And the gift of God is to make all His children of one mind – His:
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for
they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet
he himself is judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that
he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ" (1 Corinthians
Here is the Scripture you have wrongly interpreted, in context:
"Now concerning the things offered to idols, we know that we all have knowledge.
Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows
anything, he has come to know nothing yet as he ought to know" (1
Corinthians 8:1-2 EMTV).
The apostle is not saying that we have no knowledge. In fact, he
is saying the opposite. Even though we have knowledge,
that is not our Help or
Answer. Even were we to have all knowledge, as he says elsewhere
(1 Corinthians 13:2), unless we are walking in the Spirit of God,
have nothing. Those who trust in their knowledge are not walking
Therefore, you can't conclude I know nothing because I speak with
authority and say what is true. That is illogical and unScriptural.
If it were
possible, you need to show that what I say is untrue, not just
say it is wrong based
on your opinion backed by fallacious reasoning. Just because you
find our words a "type of attitude of judgment" that
you don't like, that doesn't qualify them as error. You may be
in your judgment
of our judgment,
both in where we are coming from and the validity of our words.
That you do not even allow for this possibility shows you are already
in error and
don't understand the most basic principles of godly judgment.
Thus you are led into making other false conclusions. What I wrote
to the various posters on Tentmaker had nothing to do with being
banned and getting
my "knickers in a bunch" [Scott's words].
After all, I was banned after I
wrote many of those posts. I spoke the truth to these people without
or harmful intentions, and their reactions show it is their “knickers
in a bunch.” (If you have not, go see what has been going
on since I was banned, on the thread where I introduced myself,
and see how this is so.) We are not harmed at all by these reactions
or the banning,
but these people are surely destroying themselves in their ways.
One of your main concerns is that I have judged some on the forum
to not be children of God based on what they believe. You are concerned
am not differentiating between children who can only take milk and
those mature enough to eat meat. You wonder if I am forcing meat on
and when they cannot take it, dismissing them altogether as unbelievers.
That is not remotely the case. I was the one dismissed, and not over
doctrine. Can you show otherwise? If you are going to bring
conjectures you need to provide specifics or you simply should not
speculate on such matters publicly. You are only adding to the confusion
the wicked actions of others, who toss out the brethren of the Lord
in their ignorance and darkness, thinking they do God service.
You wrongly presume to understand what I think, and err in your own
understanding of the ways of God and the Scriptures. You write:
"What Paul C. needs to realise, that he does not seem
to, is that a child of God whether he understands everything perfectly
is still a child of
God. Paul (the Apostle) never said those who believed in Christ
were not children of God…."
You automatically take the word of any who says he or she is a Christian
to be true. The apostle Paul never taught that. He taught the opposite:
"For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in
among you, not sparing the flock. Also men shall arise from your own
selves, speaking perverse things in order to draw disciples away after them" (Acts
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves
into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms
himself into an angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:13-14 EMTV).
"For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will
heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling
the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned
to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4 MKJV).
The Lord Himself taught that many taking His Name would be the product
of seed sown by the enemy:
Matthew 13:25-30 EMTV
(25) But while the men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares
among the wheat and went away.
(26) But when the stalk had sprouted and produced fruit, then the tares
(27) So the servants of the master of the house approached and said
to him, Sir, was it not good seed you sowed in your field? From where
then does it have tares'
(28) He said to them, An enemy has done this. So the servants
said to him, Do you wish then that we should go and gather them up?
(29) But he said, No, lest gathering up the tares you also uproot
the wheat with them.
(30) Leave both to grow together until the harvest; and at the time
of harvest I will say to the reapers, First gather together the tares,
and bind them into bundles to burn them, but gather together the wheat
into my barn.
Are you not at all aware that there are tares as well as wheat? Are
you not aware that there is salt that has lost its savor? Is talking
the same as talking to children who are immature in understanding?
You are not walking in discernment, Scott. You are not even aware there
such discernment, while giving me a lecture on discerning! You have
some major backtracking to do on your theories. If you are Christ's,
hear, repent, learn, and follow.
Does the Lord tell His people to "come out from among them" in
Another thing you don't recognize is that there is a place for reproving,
rebuking, and exhorting:
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Timothy 4:2
Are those things only for adults? Are not children most in need
of correction, whereas mature adults ought to have learned discipline?
But we know that
only His children at any age receive correction. Bastards do not
correction. Christ did not rebuke the Pharisees as God's children,
but as the children of the devil He openly said they were.
They, as did these on the forum, protested that God was their Father,
but the Lord refuted
"Therefore Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would have
loved Me, for I came forth and have come from God; nor have I come from
Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say? Because
you are unable to hear My word'" (John 8:42-43 EMTV).
Consider, if you can, what I am saying in light of your admonishment:
"Of course saying people are not children of God who
believe in Christ is off base but it might be Paul C did not take into account
in age (spiritually) of Gods children. And if that is the case it might
be that pointing this out to him might have corrected his error and I
hope he reads this and realises his error in doing that. Force feeding a babe
meat just chokes the baby is a good rule to remember when speaking of
things of God, yet we have ALL been guilty of doing it."
I have not been force-feeding babies, but rather rebuking Pharisees.
How is it you assume a man of God cannot know the difference?
You are quite in error, Scott, and I will show you within the text
of your posting where you diverge from the gospel of Christ revealed
mixed in some of the deadly error of the Universalists in your gospel:
"Here is a question that a lady asked here awhile back and my response to
it, I post it again in hopes that both Paul C and those who have had
issue with what Paul C has said might understand the difference
between the reconciliation which is pasts and the salvation which is promised as I believe this
where at least in part some of the confusion has come in.
Why preach the gospel at all?
For me the reason Jesus was sent and the reason Jesus sends us is to free
people through Him from sin and death. Salvation is not complete just because
one believes Jesus died for them. Believing is only the starting point
on our journey toward full salvation, for we are reconciled by His death,
but saved by His life.
All men everywhere are already reconciled by His death, this is a done
deal because He died 2000 years ago for all men's reconciliation and mans
belief or unbelief CANNOT change this fact. If someone does not believe
Jesus died for then simply does not change the fact that He did.
So then all men everywhere have already been reconciled [my
emphasis added], but
not all men are yet saved from sin and death."
You are talking about two different things and treating them as one.
The first is the fact that Jesus Christ finished the work of atonement
and sealed it by His death. "It is finished," He said. Nothing
can change this – you are right. But this does not mean that you
can automatically declare your second point, that because the Lord has
completed the work now, all men are reconciled to God. If that were the
case, there would be no need to preach repentance. Repentance, however,
is the very first word of the gospel message:
"Now having heard this, they were cut to the heart, and they said
to Peter and the rest of the apostles, 'Men and brothers, what shall we
Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the Name
of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the
gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38 EMTV).
They did not receive the forgiveness of sins until they repented. They
were in unrest because they were made conscious of their sin – a
very real matter and not just something in their heads. Peter didn't
answer their heartfelt cry according to your gospel, "You don't
have to do anything! Don't you know your sins are already forgiven and
you are already reconciled?"
Without the gift of repentance, which is a wholesale turning to God and
away from sin, reconciliation cannot become reality. And even among those
who have been granted the gift of repentance, reconciliation is not complete
until we are made complete in Him:
"Now then, we serve as ambassadors for Christ, as though God were
appealing through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled
For He made Him Who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become
the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:20-21 EMTV).
Continuing your post:
"Therefore Jesus send us out in order to proclaim
His salvation by His LIFE."
Here is another common error of many evangelicals and other religious.
They presume that Jesus made a commandment two thousand years ago to
them. He did no such thing. He is a present, not a past, Lord. As is
recounted in Acts:
"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said,
So, then, separate Barnabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have
them" (Acts 13:2 MKJV).
The sending of the Lord in His ministry is done by Him Personally and
presently, as part of a calling and preparation He undertakes with every
one of His servants. The Lord hasn't sent you, Scott. No condemnation
intended, but you will take it that way if you haven't the love for the
"His death reconciled all men, but His LIFE
is what saves all men, this salvation is not a one time deal as such,
but is a long process of
walking in His LIFE and forsaking our own. Taking up the cross and following
Him and enduring unto the end that we might be saved."
"Thus we are told to proclaim His death and therefore His reconciliation
for all men as a FACT that cannot be disputed , and we are to do this so
that the entire world can have the same hope in His LIFE that we to have.
Thus it is not by His death that sin and death are defeated but by His
When we witness about that which Jesus done, we
are first to tell all men that they have been reconciled because of His
death, this fact breathes
hope into the world that God does indeed love them. Then after people become
aware of the fact of this reconciliation by His death we are to proclaim
His resurrection. And it is because of the fact that He was resurrected
OUT OF DEATH that the world is given hope of the same resurrection OUT
OF DEATH. We are NOT saved from death, we are saved OUT OF DEATH, for it
was while we were DEAD in sin that He died and was raised to life again
While there is some truth in what you write, you have left out the foundation
of any true conversion – repentance, and what must follow, the
baptism in the Spirit of Christ. You have replaced these with a philosophical
rationale that is as satisfactory for true spiritual life in Christ
as a plastic orange tree is for food.
Men are not saved by knowledge of salvation any more than their hunger
is satisfied by knowledge of food. You are offering people a false salvation,
one that retains the flesh by leaving the carnal man in charge. Your
hearers are now assured of their salvation without the Lord's direct
involvement. If they can comprehend what you tell them of what He has
done, they can proceed in confidence as they choose. It is up to them.
The journey they think to take for salvation turns out to be a fake,
because they, and not God, are making it up as they go along. Nothing
is happening from Him. They remain unregenerate. He is not building the
house, so that they who labor are doing so in vain.
You are not saving people any more than the seven sons of Sceva were
casting out a devil in the Name of the Lord Whom Paul preached. The devil
said to them: "Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; but
who are you?" (Acts 19:15 EMTV)
So is your gospel
useless. You have to come up the right Way, through Him, and not just
through a second-hand knowledge
of Him. That is all you have, Scott. He has given us firsthand knowledge,
which is what you and everyone on the forum find most objectionable.
You do not want to hear from Him and what He requires, only your foolish
ideas and the tickling of each other's ears, just as Paul warned.
"So the resurrection is a moving from DEATH to LIFE, so as He died
for all men, so to did He rise for all men, and this is the gospel of the
good new toward ALL MEN EVERYWHERE.
If one believes Jesus died for all men, should it
not go without saying that when He rose again that it was for all men
also? Can we really separate
His death from His resurrection? If so, how then can DEATH be swallowed
up of LIFE?"
Yes, every man in his own order, according to His will. Being out of order
will not cut it, though. That is what I found and exposed at Tentmaker,
and hear in your preaching. You continue to manifest The
Deadly Error of the Universalists. It may help you to read the entire section: Universalism.