Further Correspondence with Nathan
I realized my error as your friend explained
my oversight on Tent . ., at the end of my response to your email which
is as follows below,
I will paste and copy my only response to your reference to my
on your web that I wrote out on Tent . . .
Good grief dude . . .you're stuff wreaks of law and death. You're justification
that God has "you" speak your interpretations of God's word is
based in Old Testament . . .I don't do away with the Old, but I do keep
it in perspective in the fact that the cross removes judgment and establishes
grace. There is no grace in your tone or message as near as I can tell.
You assume you have authority without establishing relationship. And why
I'm even sharing "this" much with you is unclear to me because
you didn't come to Tent, nor did you come to me with any openness whatsoever,
but you assume that we're all doomed for destruction . . .so nothing I'm
saying here is going to change anything.
You tell me that I am right that it's not our business to enforce personal
standards on others . . .and then you flip around and tell me that I still
have need of repentance. I sense you patronize those to whom you still
want to push your agenda on because that's all it seems you're doing here
. . .you agree that I'm right and follow up in doing just the opposite
of what you just said I'm right about. If I need to repent, I will rely
on the Holy Spirit to prompt me, not some unknown guy with a chip on his
shoulder who serves his own image of Christ created by his religious mind.
I am a Pastor of a church bro, I know how authority is supposed to work.
My authority is only effective in the church I'm a pastor of . . .I don't
go to another's church and tell them they need to live up to my standards
. . . so your attempt to judge me ends here. You were wrong on your response
to me in assuming that I'm seeking attention or acceptance from others
. .and your bitter message here is just as defective. Your quote on Matthew
. .and any other passage for that matter . . .is again your attempt to
enforce your interpretation on me . . .you misuse Scripture when you do
this . . .I'm not asking you for advice or correction . . .so why do you
assume that I have?
And I think that God "does" want the bride to know his nature
. .but I don't think he chooses wife beaters to be the ones to assume that
role . . .I think He can do just fine with the Spirit that is in them without
the interference and distraction of the fly-by-night attitudes of self-proclaiming
As far as I'm concerned, you've only proven that my prediction of you
getting kicked off from Tent is true. You seem to thrive on rejection.
To be painfully honest with you, you're the type of people that I warn
the church to be aware of. But I'm sure you do the same with me. Why preach
on the liberty, freedom and intimacy with Christ, when you get so much
more response and attention by preaching how sinful everyone (excluding
yourself of course) is and how wrong they are and must repent . . .that
is an Old Covenant message . . .it has been rooted up and replaced in Grace,
lathered in Mercy and applied in Love. Christ came and planted resurrection
life . . .you no longer need to continue to preach hell and death.
I'm doing my best not to return a response with the same vinegar that
you sent me . . . still needing to flesh some things out in that area as
you can see . .but all you've inspired in me with your post on tent, your
web site, and your message to me is hostility. Not a trait Jesus encouraged
us to exercise in each other. I never said God doesn't send messengers
. . I simply said that God doesn't need wife beaters to deliver judgment
on his bride. God didn't send his son to condemn the world . .so why are
you so convinced that he sent you to do it?
My response I wrote on Tent . . .
Ah ha . . . I do believe you're right . . .
Nathan, you ought to seek to please God, not men. Entertaining men in the
Name of Christ is treachery against God. You need to repent.
So my comment on him being silenced would then be perceived by him more
a feather in his cap . . .that comment provoked this response? That I seek
to please men? Is he kidding me???
Dude, I understand that we're to give each other the benefit of the doubt
and I for one try not to be quick to shoot off a quick, knee-jerk response.
But basically what he's doing with his website now is armchair quarterbacking.
He knows nothing of who I am . .if he did, the cheap shot of accusing me
of trying to please men would never have been considered, let alone uttered
. ..so do this . . .
Tell your friend that I am a pastor of a denominational church that is
a self-proclaimed heretic. I make no bones about it. I know where I stand
and I don't disagree with all of their decrees, but I do know that they
disagree with most of mine. And I'm sure the time will come when I will
be a pastor of the same flock, just in a different building with a different
label. But for now . . .if I were out to please men . . .I would definitely
not be the heretic I just confessed that I am. I would not have been open
to consider that the traditional church just may be the percentage that
has allowed another gospel to infiltrate in it's sanctuaries.
I do not condemn the church or anyone. I don't believe that is my position
or responsibility. Nor do I order others their need to repent . . .as your
friend has again done with me. The Holy Ghost that he assumes is in him,
I believe is in me . .and I don't think the role of conviction should come
from any man to any other man . .only through the spirit. . .he's much
more capable of bringing me into a place of repentance than any man.
Sometimes I wonder just how mature we really are. I'm pretty sure, we're
no where near as mature as we "think" we are. I'm sure God is
not at all pleased with the attitudes from either side of this issue when
we begin the mudslinging. For me, putting the other first, would be to
see the reasoning as to why a person chose to act a certain way . . .give
them some grace on the matter . . .but the quick-draw judgments just are
not to be found in Scripture that so many use as their ammunition.
At what point in our lives do we allow our weapons to be turned into plowshares?
Nathan, Victor Hafichuk here, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
you, a self-proclaimed pastor, is it written:
“To give an answer before hearing is a foolish thing and a cause of shame” (Proverbs
If you had investigated our site, red our testimonies and other offerings
there, familiarizing yourself in advance with those to whom you speak,
you would not and could not say the things you say to us. But of course,
you did not understand what we were saying at the Tentmaker Forum,
so how could you understand anything you might read at our site?
Your letter and entries are riddled with error, almost sentence by
sentence and phrase by phrase. There is not a word that comes forth
mouth of any value in God’s sight. You are not a real Christian, a Biblical
one, that is.
While I could address you generally, I chose to address you point by
point as we go through your letter. I will show you that you are not
a true believer,
much less a pastor appointed of God to feed and care for His sheep.
Those who follow you are not the Lord’s sheep, even as you are
nothing more than a self-serving individual who only presumes to have
to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, but who is fully antiChrist in all
his thoughts, words, and ways. I will prove all this to you and you
believe, of course, because of being who I say you are. Others may
believe and understand, however; whether before or after, it does not
I also do this primarily for the Lord’s sake because He has sent
Paul Cohen and me (as well as others) to speak truth, to reprove the works
of darkness, and to convince the ungodly of all their ungodly words and
ways, even as Enoch prophesied would happen, as Jude quotes him. That day
is here, and you are in all wickedness; we will prove it.
You assume assumptions we have not assumed. You say to us, “but
you assume that we're all doomed for destruction.” You won’t find
us saying that in our correspondence with you, at least not the way you
It is not only for your sake, in rebuke, that I write, but for that
of others, for their instruction, that they might rejoice in God, their
Savior. They will discover that He was with them, showing them the
were sent to speak. They will see that He is with them now, confirming
their steps, as they are brought out of their desolation and darkness.
Many are in that abject darkness with you, which you believe to be
at least a shade of light. Indeed, as the Lord has said:
“The light of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is sound, your
whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is evil, your body
also is full of darkness. Therefore take heed that the light in you is
not darkness” (Luke 11:34-35 MKJV).
He has said: “Go in through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate
and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there are who
go in through it. Because narrow is the gate and constricted is the way
which leads to life, and there are few who find it” (Matthew 7:13-14
Of course, the Universalists of a certain erroneous bent will say, “Gate?
What gate? Who cares about gates? It’s done! We’re all in.”
Matthew 7:21-23 MKJV
(21) Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the Kingdom
of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
(22) Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy
in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your
do many wonderful works?
(23) And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me,
those working lawlessness!
These are truths most Universalists fail to accept and comprehend,
choosing instead to believe lies and to take the goods without paying
Jesus Christ also said:
Matthew 7:15-18 MKJV
(15) Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
(16) You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from
thorns, or figs from thistles?
(17) Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt
tree brings forth evil fruit.
(18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt
tree bring forth good fruit.
And: “Therefore by their fruits you shall know them” (Matthew
You are a false pastor, a member and leader of a cult, no less, an
organization of men’s works, contrary to God, His Church, and
His Kingdom, of which we are members in His glorious standing. I will
expose your fruits herein,
thus fulfilling these words the Lord spoke:
“Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown
into the fire” (Matthew 7:19 MKJV).
We will begin with your words:
“Good grief dude . . .you're stuff wreaks of law
“Good grief ‘dude’”? Is this the talk of a shepherd of
God, whether to the believing or unbelieving? Are you not of the world,
speaking in the same spirit and manner? Still, we can agree with your
words somewhat, but not as you suppose or mean:
2 Corinthians 2:15-17 MSG
(15) Because of Christ, we give off a sweet scent rising to God, which
is recognized by those on the way of salvation--an aroma redolent with
(16) But those on the way to destruction treat us more like the stench
from a rotting corpse. This is a terrific responsibility. Is anyone
competent to take it on?
(17) No--but at least we don't take God's Word, water It down, and
then take It to the streets to sell It cheap. We stand in Christ's
when we speak; God looks us in the face. We get what we say straight
from God and say it as honestly as we can.
But you aren’t able to tell that which is good and that which is
evil in God’s sight, are you? As the carnally unpleasant, yet God-ordained,
burnt sacrifices offered up by a faithful Levitical priesthood were a sweet
smelling savor to the Lord, Who does not change, so our sacrifices now,
which are pleasing to Him, are a putrid stench to you who are yet dead
in your sins.
You make this claim in judgment of us: “You're
justification that God has ‘you’ speak your interpretations of God's word is based
in Old Testament.”
How so? You don’t say. But are you aware that almost all, if
not all, of the New Testament is based in Old Testament? We could
quote literally hundreds of verses in the New Testament that are referenced
in the Old, spoken by almost every writer in the New, certainly the
main writers such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Jude, James,
So what are you saying? You don’t know, do you?
You say that the cross removes judgment and establishes grace. Is
that so? Let me take a “base” from the Old Testament, as
mentioned in the New, and see if judgment is removed. First
of all, I think you will agree that the Church, the Body of Christ,
began at Pentecost, or am I
wrong in assuming you believe so? The Church began after the cross
and the resurrection and ascension (Am I right? Just say if I am not).
let’s tie that in with your view of judgment removed:
“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God [V -
which is the Church, right?]: and if it first begin at us [V - His Body, the
shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” (1
Peter 4:17 KJV)
So what do you make of that, pastor? Did the cross maybe fail to do
away with judgment in your estimation? Or are you mistaken? Let’s go on
to two or more witnesses to establish a matter and not depend on proof
texts, much less on opinion, as do you, while presuming to be in a position
to feed the flock of God. Now here come the saints, after the cross:
“And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied to these, saying, Behold,
the Lord came with myriads of His saints, to do judgment against
and to rebuke all the ungodly of them concerning all their
ungodly works which they ungodly did, and concerning all the hard things ungodly
against Him” (Jude 1:14-15 MKJV).
“And, O man, the one judging those who do such things, and practice them,
do you think this, that you shall escape the judgment of God?” (Romans
To whom does the apostle speak? Is the Bible for believers or for unbelievers?
To unbelievers, the Bible is a dead, is a dead, is a dead book, but
to those alive in Christ, though they may err, they know the Bible
to be the
Word of God and true altogether, given Life by Him as He wills. Do
these words not pertain to believers as well as to all men?
Paul warns the saints:
“Let every soul be subject to the higher authorities. For there is no authority
but of God; the authorities that exist are ordained by God. So that
the one resisting the authority resists the ordinance of God; and the
ones who resist will receive judgment to themselves” (Romans
So just what is the perspective you piously claim
to keep, Nathan? Shall
we have more on judgment after the cross? Let’s do:
“But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother?
For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For
it is written, ‘As
I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall
confess to God.’ So then each one of us will give account concerning
himself to God” (Romans 14:10-12 MKJV).
Am I now judging my brother according to you, Nathan, or
are you now standing before the judgment seat of Christ?
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of
Christ, so that each one may receive the things done through the body, according
to that which
he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10 MKJV).
You must answer for your words now, Pastor Loehr.
“Saying with a great voice, Fear God and give glory to Him! For the hour
of His judgment has come. And worship Him Who made the heaven and the
earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters” (Revelation 14:7 MKJV).
And what of Ananias and Sapphira? Was that grace or judgment that fell
on them after the cross?
Nathan, “dude,” what Bible version do you have?
Or do you deliberately lie to us when claiming to be a pastor in a
denomination (not that pastors
in denominations know a lot)?
How foolish are the words from your mouth! You say, “You
assume you have authority without establishing relationship.” Do
you really think that when the Lord comes with ten thousands of His
will first “establish relationship” with sinners before
they have the right to speak? What kind of relationship did
the prophets establish with the people to whom God sent
them? They must have sorely failed the grade of establishing
the people persecuted and killed them.
Just where does a parent receive authority to discipline a child? Is
it from the child, or is it from God? Did Paul and Silas establish
a relationship with the Philippian jailer before preaching the gospel
to him and his
or Peter with Cornelius and his house, or Philip with the eunuch? You
are wise in your own eyes, Nathan, but not at all wise before the One
They came to Jesus demanding by whose authority He did that which He
did. And was He supposed to get His authority from them by establishing
relationship, or did He receive authority from above, as was also
the case with His disciples as, for example, when Peter and John went
forth preaching by God’s authority, contrary to the earthly authorities.
What was Peter’s answer to those with whom he failed to establish
“And bringing them, they stood in the Sanhedrin. And the high priest asked
them, saying, Did we not strictly command you that you not teach in
this name? And behold, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine and intend
to bring this man's blood on us. And Peter and the apostles answered
and said, We ought to obey God rather than men” (Acts
No, presumptive pastor, we have no authority to speak the Word of God
but from Him. And if you know what is good for you, you will listen;
bad times come for you and are already there, are they not, Nathan?
Sure they are. By His grace, we know our business to which our Father
us and for which He, beforehand, has prepared us. And you are playing
games. Let’s go on.
I will skip over several of the words in your letter, which also manifest
the darkness of your soul, but I will address others:
tell me that I am right that it's not our business to enforce personal
standards on others . . .and then you flip around and tell me that
I still have need of repentance.”
One, we are not enforcing our personal standards
on anyone. We preach the Truth from Him, declaring His will and
HIS standard, not
our own. We do call you to repentance because God clearly tells us
that you are yet in your sins, stumbling and fumbling like a blind
a strange, garbage-strewn, dark alley.
Now if we can see and you can’t, and we are sober and you aren’t,
and we know the territory and you don’t, then will you
condemn us for taking hold of the drunk before he utterly destroys
himself or does
harm to someone? Is it not you who are “judging,” Nathan?
But your problem is that you think you see, so we must first get
you over that hump before we can persuade you that you need help
- supernatural help, because until now, you have relied on man’s
wisdom, not God’s, and man’s wisdom is foolishness with God
and destroys him. So we are here telling you that you are destroying yourself
and others with you. Behold the lies we prove you tell!
Did John the Immerser establish relationship in order to
earn the authority to speak to the multitudes that came out to see
him? Or did he enforce personal standards on them by
telling them they needed to repent, and not only so, but that they
also needed to prove
repentance by bringing forth fruits?
Luke 3:7-9 MKJV
(7) Then he said to the crowd that came forth to be baptized by him,
O generation of vipers! Who has warned you to flee from the wrath
(8) Therefore bring forth fruits worthy of repentance, and do not
begin to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father. For
to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these
(9) And now also the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore
every tree which does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and
cast into the
I don’t think “Pastor Nathan” would introduce himself
that way, would he? And he wouldn't come anywhere near such a monster
that would so neglect to “establish relationship,” and “lack
grace in his tone or message,” or would “enforce personal
I right, pastor? Am I being a little sarcastic with you? Can you
humble yourself and handle it, or will you be offended, vomit on
us as you do,
and turn back to the bottle?
Permit me to preempt gainsayers now: “But John represented the Law,
the dispensation before the cross!” such as you cry. But what do
the Scriptures declare as John’s inspirational source? Of him it
“For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall neither drink
wine nor strong drink. And he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit,
even from his mother's womb” (Luke 1:15 MKJV).
So was it the Spirit of Law or the Spirit of grace that inspired
“John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given
him from Heaven” (John 3:27 KJV).
We think that is grace. Don’t you? And we believe John well understood
so. It took grace to birth him of an aged mother, to raise him up in the
wilderness, to send him forth to introduce the Son of God, no less, and
to cause him to speak those words in which you, my friend, would find little
semblance of man’s notion of grace.
You write, “I sense you patronize those
to whom you still want to push your agenda on because that's all
it seems you're doing here,” and, “…your
bitter message here is just as defective. Your quote on Matthew . .and
any other passage for that matter . . .is again your attempt to enforce
your interpretation on me.”
Is that a bit of grace lacking there in your speculation,
opinion, and judgment of us after the appearance coming forth from
you? We push and enforce nothing, and we have no agenda, Nathan,
other than to
do the job we are sent by God to do, and while we know what you are
doing, at best you can only evilly surmise about us.
Astounding words now come to prove your entire ignorance of God,
of His ways, and of the work of His servants:
I need to repent, I will rely on the Holy Spirit to prompt me, not
some unknown guy with a chip
on his shoulder who serves his own image of Christ created by his
You mean like John the Immerser or Jeremiah or Jonah at Nineveh,
Nathan? Or how about Elijah, who lopped off 450 heads in one day,
who cursed a group of young people mocking, who were consequently
two she bears?
“Old Testament,” you say? Then how about New Testament, which, unfortunately
for you and your repugnance for the Law of God, is based in
Revelation 2:19-23 MKJV
(19) I know your works and love and service and faith and your
patience, and your works; and the last to be more than the first.
(20) But I have a few things against you because you allow that
woman Jezebel to teach, she saying herself to be a prophetess,
and to cause
to go astray, and to commit fornication, and to eat idol-sacrifices.
(21) And I gave her time that she might repent of her fornication,
and she did not repent.
(22) Behold, I am throwing her into a bed, and those who commit
adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent of
(23) And I will kill her children with death. And all the churches
will know that I am He who searches the reins and hearts, and I
to every one of you according to your works.
You falsely accuse and speak in great and judgmental ignorance
to say we speak from our own minds, but if we do, how is it that
minds are in agreement with the Word of God, your words fail horribly
tune with the Scriptures? So who are you to judge, and who should
take what you say seriously?
You suggest you will rely on the Holy Spirit, Who comes in the
Name of Jesus Christ, and refuse to receive us who come in His
you are justified to reject a chosen vessel by which His Spirit
comes. Yet Jesus said, “He that receives you receives Me
and he that rejects you rejects Me.” “Pastor,” you
are a lying rebel, are you not? Admit it.
Incidentally, Nathan, would you like to read, Does God Speak Only
You go on to say, “I am a Pastor of
a church bro, I know how authority is supposed to work.” We
have already discussed authority, however, and how it comes, haven’t
we, and you are wrong, rebelliously, ignorantly wrong. What you
speak of is the authority of usurpatious men, building
their own kingdoms in the Name of God on foundations of sand,
if not manure, and you say you know how authority is supposed to
Our Authority you know nothing of; it is not the authority of vain
children of darkness doing their own thing. That is why men will
not allow you
to exercise authority in their designated territories that they
out and established for themselves. But God goes where He wills,
He sends His servants where He wills, and nobody has the right
as did those who, in their territory of presumptuous authority,
like yours of Him:
Matthew 21:23-27 MKJV
(23) And when He had come into the temple, the chief priests and
the elders of the people came to Him as He was teaching, and said,
do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?
(24) And Jesus answered and said to them, I will also ask you one
thing; which if you tell Me, I likewise will tell you by what authority
do these things.
(25) The baptism of John, where was it from? From Heaven or from
men? And they reasoned within themselves, saying, If we shall say,
Heaven, He will say to us, Why then did you not believe him?
(26) But if we shall say, From men, we fear the people; for all
consider John as a prophet.
(27) And they answered Jesus and said, We cannot tell. And He said
to them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.
But here, we tell you, and you have nothing to say about it.
You say to us, “you misuse Scripture
when you do this….” But
who is it that misuses Scripture, as we prove to you? And who,
then, are you to judge us and how we use Scripture?
You say, “I'm not asking you for advice
or correction . . .so why do you assume that I have?”
Why would you assume we assume you asked? Have you personally and
directly asked God for advice or correction? If so, He has answered.
Here we are, sent of Him. But if you haven’t asked for it, should
He wait until you do, or should He give you grace (unmerited favor) and
send you those who, in His Name and power and authority, will speak to
you for your sake that you might not destroy yourself?
You, however, don’t strike us as someone who would earnestly seek
after God for advice or correction for the right reasons. On the contrary,
you carry yourself as one who has far more than he needs, when the truth
is the other way around.
Of God and of us, you say, “I think
He can do just fine with the Spirit that is in them without the
interference and distraction of the
fly-by-night attitudes of self-proclaiming authorities.”
Is that more of your grace, Nathan? But we are not proclaiming
ourselves as something we are not, as you falsely accuse by the
spirit in you.
We have told you from where our authority comes, that being not
of men but
of Heaven. Therefore, we know that the spirit that is in you is
one other than that of God.
Every word out of your mouth is an idle one, and not only idle,
but ugly, “pastor.” You
say our attitudes are “fly-by-night”? Can you define that?
We have made ourselves fully public, fully identified, and fully
accessible to those worthy, without partisanship, speaking the
truth for which any
day we can be killed; millions out there are more than willing
to do so, many even eager.
We have been on the internet for several
of us working more than full time, and we charge nothing. We
are not hirelings who work for a salary as determined by the sheep.
We are God’s laborers
and He pays us very well, more than any mega church or network of mega
churches ever could.
By God’s grace and mercy, you will find none of The
True Marks of a Cult with us. But how many will we find with one who is hired by, and
serves, a man-made organization, founded by a harlot, no less? Even her
personal story has the classic markings of “fly-by-night.” Nathan,
you are a hypocrite, liar, and false accuser, provenly so.
You say, “To be painfully honest
with you, you're the type of people that I warn the church to
be aware of.” How gracious of you! This
is not pain to us, Nathan; we count it joy to suffer despite for His Name’s
sake. But it turns to pain for you and for those you influence; it is painful
to fall into a ditch and to have it on your conscience in the end that
you have done evil to the One Who shed His blood for you, offending those
whom you have prevented from entering the Kingdom, refusing to enter yourself.
You say, “But I'm sure you do the
same with me.” Yes, we do
warn others of such as you, and that is why I write you now and
why we have written The
True Marks of a Cult and much more.
You write, “Why preach on the liberty,
freedom and intimacy with Christ, when you get so much more response
and attention by preaching how
sinful everyone (excluding yourself of course) is and how wrong
they are and must repent . . .that is an Old Covenant message
. . .it has been rooted
up and replaced in Grace, lathered in Mercy and applied in Love.
Christ came and planted resurrection life . . .you no longer
need to continue
to preach hell and death.”
You have a problem with our preaching repentance, do you? You
mean it is wrong to do so after the cross, Nathan, and after
Spirit was given,
such as in this instance?:
Acts 2:38-40 KJV
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and
be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive
the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to
all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall
(40) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save
yourselves from this untoward generation.
Or here?: “Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may
be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence
of the Lord” (Acts 3:19 KJV).
Or here?: Acts 8:22-23 MKJV
(22) Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray God
if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
(23) For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in
the bond of iniquity.
Or here?: Acts 17:30 MKJV
(30) Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now
He strictly commands
all men everywhere to repent.
Or here?: Acts 26:20 MKJV
(20) But to those first in Damascus, and Jerusalem, and to all
the country of Judea, and to the nations, I made known the command
to turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.
So perhaps you might argue that repentance is only to be preached
to the unconverted? Well, you are unconverted,
Nathan, as are those who empathize
with you at the Tentmaker Forum, and many others. But here are
examples of some who were converted and still needed to hear:
“Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the
first works, or else I will come to you quickly and will remove your lampstand
out of its place unless you repent” (Revelation 2:5 MKJV).
“Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them
by the sword of My mouth” (Revelation 2:16 MKJV).
What do you say about those verses, Universalist with scales
of justice and righteousness askew?
“And I gave her time that she might repent of her fornication,
and she did not repent. Behold, I am throwing her into a bed, and
those who commit adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent
deeds. And I will kill her children with death. ..." (Revelation
Oh my! There’s Jesus preaching death and hell! Which Jesus
is this now? Is it Nathan’s or ours? Is it the One of Whom
the Bible testifies, or is it the one men have invented so they
can continue in their whoredoms,
fornications, and masturbations? You tell me which it is, you
who say there is no more need of preaching repentance, death,
and hell. Here is what you
will find out in due time:
"And all the churches will know that I am He Who searches the reins and
hearts, and I will give to every one of you according to your
Will you escape with your philosophy, Nathan? We know otherwise,
and so we preach.
“Remember then how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent.
Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you
as a thief,
and you will not know what hour I will come upon you” (Revelation
Has He not now come upon you as a thief, Nathan?
“And men were burned with great heat. And they blasphemed the Name of God,
He having authority over these plagues. And they did not repent
in order to give Him glory” (Revelation 16:9 MKJV).
“And they blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their
sores. And they did not repent of their deeds” (Revelation 16:11
Face it, "Pastor," you really don’t know a thing
about God or the Bible, do you? All you have is deceit and vain
concoctions of men
who refuse to repent. Is that not so? They and you prefer to
live in Satan’s “La
La Land,” which is Hell and Death, enjoying the pleasures
of sin for a season until you are destroyed by “grace” and “love,” receiving
the wages you so richly deserve.
Nevertheless, we do not preach only hell and death, as you foolishly
surmise, but we do preach, as did Jesus and His disciples, to
those who are dead
and in hell, as I do even now, so that they might repent and
I rebuke you for your lies, presumption, evil surmisings, pretense,
false accusations, foolish teachings, and example.
“Get behind Me, Satan: you are an offence to Me: for you savour not the
things that are of God, but those that are of men” (Matthew 16:23
In this letter, I have already proven you wrong on your bullshit
about grace; I have also exposed your alleged grace and love. Where in
Scriptures would anyone but a devil find such understanding as yours?
False Love - Satan’s Last
Stronghold, and Law
You write of us: “I simply said that God
doesn't need wife beaters to deliver judgment on his bride.” One,
we have clearly, Scripturally shown you where judgment on His Bride
is very necessary; two, how dare you, with your ministry of gracious
lips, compare His servants
to wife beaters; and three, you are not of His Bride, Nathan.
You say, and rightly so (in the letter) but satanically in the spirit
and motive: “God didn't send his son to
condemn the world.” Indeed,
He did not, neither do we condemn it, except in the way that Noah did so;
but He did say that those who do not believe are condemned already:
John 3:18-21 MKJV
(18) He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe
is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the
only-begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the
world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their
(20) For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come
to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
(21) But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works
may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.
We have not brought condemnation, but we have made it known to you
that you are condemned. The doctor that delivers the diagnosis of terminal
cancer did not bring the disease, Nathan.
In another entry on Tentmaker, you say something remarkable in light
of all I just pointed out to you: “I for
one try not to be quick to shoot off a quick, knee-jerk response.” Wow! Blind
and contradictory, are you, Nathan?
You go on, speaking of my brother in ministry, Paul, or me: “He
knows nothing of who I am . .if he did, the cheap shot of accusing
me of trying
to please men would never have been considered, let alone uttered….”
No, Nathan, you are so wrong. We know plenty about you, as revealed
from above, and we have every right and duty to speak. As it says in
of which you are so very ignorant and void of Their Power:
1 Corinthians 2:14-16 MKJV
(14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit
of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them,
are spiritually discerned.
(15) But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged
by no one.
(16) For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him?
But we have the mind of Christ.
Have you red this letter to you, “Pastor” Nathan? Are you
ready to crawl into a hole? If you are, that would be a good sign,
a reaction would seem to have much more hope than one you have had
so far, without cause or substance.
You proudly boast of your status in this world before men: “Tell
your friend that I am a pastor of a denominational church that is a
self-proclaimed heretic. I make no bones about it. I know where I stand….”
We are also known far and wide as heretics, but not before God. We
solemnly tell you that you do not know where you stand, leastways not
We are here to tell you that while you may proclaim yourself a heretic
that is acceptable to some men, you are an unacceptable heretic to
God. Yours is a feigned faith and love, Nathan, though the world may
you for it.
We know your heart, as the Scriptures teach, contrary to your foolish
notion that men of God cannot know another man’s heart. You say, “But
for now . . .if I were out to please men . . .I would definitely not
be the heretic I just confessed that I am.”
You define and confess yourself a heretic because you are a man pleaser
and not because you are not. How’s that? Honestly consider it,
Nathan, if you care or dare. I don’t see that you do either.
That is also a reading of your heart, a discerning of your spirit by
the Spirit of God
in me, though I don’t believe it takes spiritual discernment
to see it.
As with everything else coming forth from you, this is also false: “I
do not condemn the church or anyone.” If you are a heretic
in the eyes of “the church,” then what is this church that
you do not condemn? Is not a heretic one who departs in disagreement
church”? But we, Paul and I, and those with us, are the Church
of Christ, His Body, and if you don’t condemn us, then we do
not understand English in the same way.
Did you not say, “To be painfully honest
with you, you're the type of people that I warn the church to be aware
of”? If that is not
condemnation, what is, “Pastor” Nathan?
But you are not the Church of God and never were. What you have is
a kingdom of men, a gathering of blind fools, with a blind fool leading.
we to leave you alone, as the Lord once advised His disciples?
No, not this time - this time we speak, that all may read and fear.
directs us, even as Enoch prophesied.
You confess yourself an unbeliever almost directly this time: “The
Holy Ghost that he assumes is in him, I believe is
in me….” Not
that we need this evidence, but the way you use the words, “I believe,” means
you are not in full conviction that you have God’s Spirit.
did have His Spirit, you would boldly, with full conviction, be able
to say, “He is in me,” but you don’t
have what you would like to claim to have. You have nothing of the Lord,
Nathan, and I show
it to you in many ways. This, contrary to your proud and angry, man
pleasing spirit, is not to condemn, but to inform and to warn, as is fitting
sight. If I censure you, it is for good, not that you know or believe
it, but one day, you will.
You ask, “At what point in our lives
do we allow our weapons to be turned into plowshares?” We ask you, “At what point in your
life will you allow yourself to perceive the Sword of the Lord we wield
for what it is - a plowshare?”
You write, with professed levity: “I
find it amusing that Aimee Semple McPherson is one of them [one
we find a false teacher] .she happens to
be the founder of the denomination I am a part of . . .his beef with
her is that she is a woman in an authoritive position”
First, if you knew the Lord, you would not be there; second, she
is not a false teacher simply or only because having exercised authority
men, which Paul condemned in his words to the Corinthians and to
Aimee was a floozy, a spiritual sensationalist and adulteress, a
showgirl, a money grubber, a phony, and those who cannot perceive
her as such
are blind, as you, not having an eye that is single.
You write, “Joyce Meyer on his list [of
false teachers] as well . .Billy Grahm . .Benny
Hinn . . a bunch of them on there that apparently
are going to hell?”
We did not say they were going to hell. They are there now, twice
the children of hell their predecessors or mentors were. Billy Graham’s end is
a manifestly miserable one, and you will see the same or worse for the
liar and thief, Hinn, a very wicked man.
The Day of the Lord has come, and the Stone has ground you to powder,
Nathan. Only children of light are not ignorant of these things.
Can you, will
I read about 10 lines of your response . . . then had to quit because
this light you are convinced you have is reproducing nothing but death
in others . . .
Have a great day.
We know whereof we speak, Nathan, and we answer you as does He:
"Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is
My Father Who glorifies Me, of Whom you say that He is your God. Yet you
have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I should say I do not know Him,
I would be a liar like you. But I know Him and I keep His Word" (John
Death is exactly what you need, by the cross, which is anathema to you
and those who agree with you.
If you knew of what you speak, then your intent would not to be to induce
death, but to illuminate life . . . it is not your responsibility to bring
death to anyone. As I said in my original message to you . .Jesus didn't
condemn . . .what makes you think you can? I work out my own salvation
. . . it's a "personal" experience . . .my salvation is not based
on your standards . . . yet you still assume you have the right to enforce
them. You want to really convince me? Then illuminate light . . .pointing
out the darkness in others only reinforces what the enemy desires . . .
The answers to these comments and questions are all in the letter I sent
you, with our position proven of God, which letter you have ignorantly
and arrogantly dismissed. So why bother repeating your comments and questions
as though they were not answered? If you think dialogue should go only
one way, from you, and you won't listen, then go your way and destroy
Nathan, how confused you are while presuming to have understanding! By
the Nature of God, Light cannot help but be a reproof of darkness:
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the Light,
for whatever makes manifest is Light" (Ephesians 5:13 MKJV).
You know nothing of our intent or what we do. How can you, when you are
manifestly in darkness? You cannot be in the Light when you are found denying
God's intrinsic and unalterable Nature. So is the Scripture fulfilled:
"And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not apprehend
it" (John 1:5 EMTV).
He writhes and snarls, gnashing his teeth as he lays in his dark gutter,
cursing the one who tries to lift him up out of his vomit and squalor.
Wretched fellow, presuming to lead others, as though he is better off than
they. What arrogance! What ignorance! What presumption! What delusion!
And while he presumes to be fit to lead, he refuses to be led, thinking
himself above the need for it.
Nathan, you know nothing at all of the Light of all men, and you refuse
See . .that's why you get the responses you get . . .all you're doing
is judging others . .. you judge me and doom me to hell . . .Just because
I disagree with how you approach things has nothing to do with me manifestly
being in darkness . . .You're still flesh yourself . ..you're not going
to always be right either, so I maintain my ability to disagree with you.
I never said the light can not reproof darkness . . .but I believe that
the purpose of the light in me is to cast out the darkness in me . ..not
in others . . .otherwise it's not a personal relationship.
Either way, it's clear that we're not going to agree . .so save your emails
for someone who will read them . . .because after this last response to
you, I'm just going to delete them from here on out.
There is no light in you, Nathan; there never was. You worship another